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  #31  
Old 01-16-2022, 01:53 AM
Dan 57's Avatar
Dan 57 Dan 57 is offline
 
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Quote:
When I did it, I first saw the shrink happen, then the glue started to melt and finally the solder melted and flowed into the wire. I then let it go a bit longer and figured it was ok.
All good then, this is the normal sequence. I usually do a pull test to make sure the solder has caught the wires.
The issue with solder sleeve is exactly this, they contain a certain amount of solder, no more. And the reason I usually restrict their use for the type of connection such as yours.
What they’re really great at, is splicing 2 wires of more or less the same section, whilst in dive position (flap handle + left or/and stick grunion wedged between you ribs) working single handed below that nameitwhatyouwant panel… been there, done that
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  #32  
Old 01-16-2022, 02:19 AM
TASEsq TASEsq is offline
 
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I made a test coupon up just now and I used a 0.22” sleeve on one end and a 0.25” sleeve on the other. Wire was a 3 x 20awg with a 20awg tail. The larger one shrank down with no problems and did have a bit more solder. But I think the smaller one also did it’s job. Photos of both completed sleeves below. Zero resistance through the 2 black wires when done.

Here is a video showing the sleeve shrinking - hopefully I’m doing it correctly. You can see the shrink happen, then the glue, then all of a sudden the solder melts and flows into the wires almost instantaneously.

https://youtu.be/pUJtIVwHgTM

Grateful for any advice - such a wide variety of skills to learn in this hobby!
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  #33  
Old 01-16-2022, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Longez View Post
I don't really have anything against solder sleeves, but have never seen a need to buy any.

When I need to splice a wire, I use solder and heatshrink.

When I need to terminate the shield braid with a ring lug to attach to a connector shield block, I go old school.

1. First, mark the location where the insulation is to be removed. “Three fingers” is a common length, but some prefer “four fingers” for a little extra length on the wires.

2. Next, lightly cut the insulation at the mark with a single edge razor blade or other sharp knife. Make sure that the braid wire is not cut in the process. Remove the outer section of insulation either by pulling, or by lightly cutting along the length of the insulation.

3. Next, bend the wire at the end of the insulation, and using an awl or other pointed, smooth object, carefully separate the braid and extract the wires out the side of the braid. Make sure and don’t nick the insulation on the signal wires.

4. Finally, add a small piece of heat shrink tubing to stress relieve and tidy up the junction. Crimp on the ring lug which will be screwed onto the connector shield block with a #8-32 screw.

You can go forward or backward with the direction of the shield braid. I like to bend it back before adding the heat shrink since it will be connected to the shield block at the back of the connector.

Steve
WOW, I remember learning to do that back in 1974 while at Keesler AFB going through the USAF Basic Electronics School. And YES, I am that old and have been doing this for that long.
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Last edited by GalinHdz : 01-18-2022 at 01:59 PM.
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  #34  
Old 01-17-2022, 12:35 PM
PhatRV PhatRV is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TASEsq View Post
I made a test coupon up just now and I used a 0.22” sleeve on one end and a 0.25” sleeve on the other. Wire was a 3 x 20awg with a 20awg tail. The larger one shrank down with no problems and did have a bit more solder. But I think the smaller one also did it’s job. Photos of both completed sleeves below. Zero resistance through the 2 black wires when done.

Here is a video showing the sleeve shrinking - hopefully I’m doing it correctly. You can see the shrink happen, then the glue, then all of a sudden the solder melts and flows into the wires almost instantaneously.

https://youtu.be/pUJtIVwHgTM

Grateful for any advice - such a wide variety of skills to learn in this hobby!
The only comment I would like to make is to cut a long pigtail grounding wire that is soldered to the shield when you assemble the actual loom. This will give you a lot of wiggle room
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  #35  
Old 01-17-2022, 06:50 PM
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TJCF16 TJCF16 is offline
 
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Default Solder sleeve’s

I worked 26 years on F-16 electrical system, and at no time are you allowed to butt splice with solder sleeves. LM Aero would only allow raychem crimped splice with heat shrink sealing sleeves. They come in Red,Blue and Yellow. Aircraft Spruce Has them, but they are not cheap! I will say this one more time, solder sleeves are for shield wire grounding! Not for butt splicing! This is not MHO but fact.
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  #36  
Old 01-18-2022, 07:38 AM
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Bill Boyd Bill Boyd is offline
 
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I realize my extensive use of solder sleeves in my current build makes me automatically defensive when that decision is called into question (on the internet, of all places!).

But having said that, I'm going to channel my inner Bob Nuckolls and ask that if anyone has a physical sample of a solder sleeve connection that has failed in service in a properly supported wire bundle after checking out normally in initial service, I would ask that it be sent to me (or better, to Bob) for an autopsy and determination of how this failure occurred.

Until then, I'm of the personal opinion that this cautionary scolding is not based on The Science (TM), since generally not much else is either these days.
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  #37  
Old 01-18-2022, 07:48 AM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Boyd View Post
I realize my extensive use of solder sleeves in my current build makes me automatically defensive when that decision is called into question (on the internet, of all places!).

But having said that, I'm going to channel my inner Bob Nuckolls and ask that if anyone has a physical sample of a solder sleeve connection that has failed in service in a properly supported wire bundle after checking out normally in initial service, I would ask that it be sent to me (or better, to Bob) for an autopsy and determination of how this failure occurred.

Until then, I'm of the personal opinion that this cautionary scolding is not based on The Science (TM), since generally not much else is either these days.
I have repaired multiple CAN bus faults caused by bad solder sleeve splices, basically typical cold solder joint failures.
Sorry but I don’t save them.
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Last edited by Walt : 01-18-2022 at 07:50 AM.
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  #38  
Old 01-18-2022, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Walt View Post
I have repaired multiple CAN bus faults caused by bad solder sleeve splices, basically typical cold solder joint failures.
Sorry but I don’t save them.
I don't doubt you, Walt. A cold joint is exactly what I'd be concerned about - either from under-heating or from an installer pulling on the splice to test it mechanically before it was cooled down to "warm to the touch." Solder must be allowed to set without being disturbed or a frosted-looking cold joint is assured and it will give trouble at some point. This is also true for a conventional solder joint made with an iron and then covered with shrink wrap, the old-school way of doing what a solder sleeve does more easily with fewer hands.

If any failed specimens were brought forward for analysis, I would expect them to be uniformly of the cold-joint variety, although a few solder-starved joints from Chinese manufacturing tolerances wouldn't surprise me either. I like the way the solder sleeves allow for visualization of the melting and wet-out inside the sleeve as the solder paste reaches its alloying temperature. Very reassuring to see the solder flash outward along the whole length of the exposed strands and coat them with a shiny (not frosted) silvery flow. I have an attachment for my heat gun that wraps around the sleeve and warms all sides at once; I suspect not everyone is doing it that way and that's an exposure to installation error.
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  #39  
Old 01-18-2022, 08:46 AM
JeremyL JeremyL is offline
 
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Probably well known, but I didn’t see it said here. Make sure you fold the braid back over the jacket if you are terminating the shield with the sleeve at the end of the wire. This is an acceptable method and procedure to prevent future issues with the internal wire. Also, I don’t think the fanning and wrapping the lead to the braid is a method used in mil spec and such, I have no evidence saying it could be an issue but it might create a “non flat” braid which is very important to avoid, as they say YMMV. The solder sleeves are great to use especially now with all the advancement, they have thermochemical rings that turn clear when a degree is reached above the preform solder temperature ensuring proper melting. As stated above my personal preference would be to not use them for butt stuff. Do make sure you use legitimate sleeves, mainly raychem… you get what you pay for, and in this hobby, quality is a must.
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  #40  
Old 01-18-2022, 08:49 AM
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jliltd jliltd is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Boyd View Post
I realize my extensive use of solder sleeves in my current build makes me automatically defensive when that decision is called into question (on the internet, of all places!).

But having said that, I'm going to channel my inner Bob Nuckolls and ask that if anyone has a physical sample of a solder sleeve connection that has failed in service in a properly supported wire bundle after checking out normally in initial service, I would ask that it be sent to me (or better, to Bob) for an autopsy and determination of how this failure occurred.

Until then, I'm of the personal opinion that this cautionary scolding is not based on The Science (TM), since generally not much else is either these days.
Bill. Solder splices for all manner of wire splicing is approved by NASA per "NASA WORMANSHIP STANDARDS" Book 4, section 4.07. Solder splice joints as well as legacy solder joints with proper strain relief are taught in the AEA's avionics training courses. Like anything in aircraft construction and maintenance there are many things that cannot be controlled in the field with respect to workmanship, proper tools and techniques. No different than bad riveting, drilling figure 8 holes, poor deburring or improperly torqued hardware. None of those are any good either. I see folks use cigarette lighters for heat shrink tubing and heaven forbid there might be someone out there who has tried the same with solder splices. I maintain that for a properly trained installer with a good quality heat gun solder sleeves are good for more than just shield terminations. Like the video above the heat gun should have a curved shrink nozzle. The splice should constantly be rotated for even heat while shrinking and melting the solder. I will use traditional soldering with shrink tube for most butt spilce joints and usually use solder splices for shield drains. Why use an expensive solder sleeve when traditional methods work well for a few penny's worth of solder and heat shrink? And even in the case of shield drains if I run out of solder splices I will continue the work on shield drains with traditional soldering to the shield with heat shrink cover which takes a little more time. Basically I go old school like Long-Ez Steve. Both methods are taught at the AEA course and are also allowed per referenced NASA WORMANSHIP standards.

Part of the original purpose of the EAB approval standard is the education received in the process and we all start out in life knowing little and learning then getting better over time so there may be instances where a new shop tech or a green kit builder might do something out of ignorance and hopefully outside inspections will catch this stuff. But that can be hard if hidden under heat shrink.
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