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Hangar rash on my elevator

DylanRush

Active Member
My hangar mate and I were trying to load my -6A onto a lift yesterday and sadly the elevator's trailing edge collided with a corner of the T hangar wall.... twice.

The damage looks mostly cosmetic save for a small crack about 1-2mm deep just next to one of the ribs. He applied a squeezing tool to mostly even out the deformity.

My hangar mate is an A&P, just finished building his -8 and recently flew it for the first time. He seemed to think it would be safe to fly but I should keep a close eye on it, and it may need to be stop drilled. The accident was my fault - it's my plane and I should have been paying more attention - but he very generously offered to help build a new elevator. I may take him up on it but in the meantime I want to be able to fly. Wanted to check with you all to see if you also think it's safe to take up.

I also might try to get a salvage part or something. There is an unfinished -6 tail and wing set local in Washington for sale on Barnstormers... I might try to buy the elevator from that guy and see if it fits mine.

Also wondering if I could/should apply a patch to reinforce it, or maybe weld it or something? I'm not a builder, open to suggestions.

Pictures attached
 

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Dylan -

You’ll get lots of advice here, but for anything structural, you really need to contact Van’s for an engineering judgement - everything else (including what I might say) is sort of a guess….

And I really don’t like that crack!

Paul
 
At a bare minimum, stop drill the crack properly. Clean off some paint, and find the end of the crack.

You'll probably want to buy or build a new one in the long run.

I wouldn't consider welding at all.

My $0.02 worlh.

But "the factory" will give you the real answer.
 
Retrofitting a salvaged elevator is going to be problematic. There are no prepunched holes on the -6 / -6A so the rod end bearings and control horn are never going to match up exactly between any two versions. And they really need to match up exactly.

Assuming you replace it (and I would assume that) I would say you are very lucky to have an A&P / builder available to help you build a new one!
 
I can't tell if the crack is in Aluminum trailing edge or the interface between the elevator and elevator tip/fiberglass. If it is in aluminum and this was my plane, I would be building a new one.
 
Retrofitting a salvaged elevator is going to be problematic. There are no prepunched holes on the -6 / -6A so the rod end bearings and control horn are never going to match up exactly between any two versions. And they really need to match up exactly.

Assuming you replace it (and I would assume that) I would say you are very lucky to have an A&P / builder available to help you build a new one!

I found an assembled elevator and tail kit <SNIP> - not salvaged, and not yet drilled for the rod end bearings and control horn.

My left elevator is configured for electric trim and this one that I found is configured for manual trim.

I am thinking of buying the whole tail kit (it's a really good price) and installing the right elevator from the kit. I would clamp the elevators down and drill through to match the new right control horn with the old left one.
 
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Here are the elevators I'm thinking of picking up tomorrow
 

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Check carefully. I can’t think of a way to install the hard points to mount the rod ends after the skins are on. I’d bet the work for the rod ends has been done, but the rod ends aren’t installed.
 
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first, it cannot be welded. 2024 is a non weldable alloy. ask vans, but I would most likely not have a problem with stop drilling it and flying until I could build a new one. a elevator is about as easy of a build as there is, a couple of days at most to make a new one. it looks to me like it could be just a new skin if you don't mind match drilling it.


bob burns
RV-4 N82RB
 
Check carefully. I can’t think of a way to install the hard points to mount the rod ends after the skins are on. I’d bet the work for the rod ends has been done, but the rod ends aren’t installed.
Agreed. In the pic you can see the nut for the rod end bearing which is on the outboard plate that rivets to the spar -- in the std. build sequence that gets done before the skin is riveted on. Which means the hinge point locations are set. Ditto the control weldment at the inboard end.

Personally I would plan on building a new elevator or drilling off the skin and replacing it.
 
I would just get a new skin and rebuild your elevator with the existing skeleton.
Your builder friend should be able to help you do that.
I have done it before and its just a little time consuming.
You have a ready made template in the old skin for the new piece and making new stiffeners isn't a big deal.
Just have someone help get you started on drilling out the old rivets along the spar and end ribs so you don't over drill the holes.
Your buddy should be able to easily help you do the riveting.
Good luck.
By the way. I agree that the tail pieces you are looking at probably won't fit right unless you are extremely lucky.
 
Awesome thanks so much everyone. I ended up passing on the tail kit. Going to wait to hear from Vans before flying, but will most likely stop drill the crack, fly it for a few months, watch it, and see if anything changes.
 
Reskin

RESKIN THE ONE YOU HAVE , 2024 IN THE O CONDITION IS WELDABLE, YOUR SKIN IS 2024-T3 NOT WELDABLE, HAVE YOUR A&P FREIND HELP YOU , IF YOU STOP DRILL IT YOU SHOULD BE OK TO FLY .
I HAVE SEEN REPAIRS DONE TO DAMAGE LIKE THAT AT THE AIRLINE WITH A BENT PEICE OF ALUM, LIKE A SMALL PATCH TO COVER THE DAMAGE TO MATCH THE TRAILING EDGE AND STRUCTUAL ADHEASIVE , YOU WOULD HAVE TO CLEAN PAINT OFF , AND GET METAL CLEAN. WOULD NOT LOOK AS NICE AS A NEW PAINTED SKIN, A LOT LESS WORK, HAVE FUN.
 
Ground this aircraft until the skin/elevator is replaced!!

Awesome thanks so much everyone. I ended up passing on the tail kit. Going to wait to hear from Vans before flying, but will most likely stop drill the crack, fly it for a few months, watch it, and see if anything changes.

Like Paul says - ask Vans, But - - having seen an RV8 (VAF with picts) that suddenly failed its elevator in flight I realized how much that trailing edge provides to stiffness.

That crack seriously reduces the stiffness, so don't fly until replaced.

https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=152312
 
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yep, if the trailing edge is cracked you loose the stiffness that edge provides. what that does to the flutter characteristics at Vne is probably unknown and not in the direction of goodness. I would recommend a new skin.
 
Awesome thanks so much everyone. I ended up passing on the tail kit. Going to wait to hear from Vans before flying, but will most likely stop drill the crack, fly it for a few months, watch it, and see if anything changes.

If the tail kit is that good of a deal, just buy it and replace the horizontal and elevators. You have to paint either way. The left elevator can be modified for the electric trim.
 
Update from Vans

They said:

From what I am seeing in the photos at least one elevator will need to be repaired. The problem being the crack that separates the trailing edge. If this were just a dent it would not be a concerning but once the trailing edge is cut it is no longer considered structurally sound.

I am sorry to also report that we do not have a suitable repair to offer for this, our recommendations would be to replace the effected part. You could consult AC43.13 but with this being a balanced control surface you will need to rebalance the elevator if you decide pursue a repair.​
 
And adding to that, I echo what others have said…
The simplest repair will be to reskin your elevator (assuming good technique for disassembly is used)
As already mentioned, the likelihood of you purchasing a completed elevator and having it fit is very slim.
 
If the tail kit is that good of a deal, just buy it and replace the horizontal and elevators. You have to paint either way. The left elevator can be modified for the electric trim.

Previous threads here on VAF suggest that replacing an HS is rather difficult as well... Something about the difficulty in drilling the mounting holes that hold the new HS to the airframe.
 
Interesting thanks so much guys. Any ideas on where to find a new skin?

I was too slow on buying that tail kit and it's already gone someplace else. But it sounds like replacing the skin is the way to go.
 
Source for skin

Vans should be able to supply you with a new skin and stiffeners, there may be a bit of a wait time though. It would be worth also ordering the thumb drive with the plans and construction manual. There is a wooden vee block support jig that is needed when assembling the skin to the spar.
 
I would take an old school approach to repairing this.

Unsure if the thumb drive would would give the detail to fabricate a new skin (may be a blend of 6 & 7 structures to give reference, as thumb drive were probably not meant to actually be used for building), original paper plans have everything to actually fabricate parts including dimensions (7 & later plans didn’t supply dimensions generally). If you can find someone local with a paper plan set, the first 10 pages gives everything to build the empennage, including rib form blocks!

If I were doing it, I’d determine if the skin is the early .016 or later .020 thickness, order a 4’ x 4’ sheet of the appropriate sheet. Carefully remove the original elevator skin & copy the layout from it on the new material (or lay it out per plans if you have them), get a shop to bend the 3/16” radius trailing edge & proceed with reassembly.

But if Vans can supply a replacement skin pre trimmed & bent- all the better!
 
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Interesting thanks so much guys. Any ideas on where to find a new skin?

I was too slow on buying that tail kit and it's already gone someplace else. But it sounds like replacing the skin is the way to go.

Search the list on Van's on line store:

https://shop.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/shop.cgi

E.g. looking for "elevator" I get multiple skins for the 6 and other RV types. So you will need the part number which would be on the plans. Guessing based on the part numbers they have a pre punched version and a not pre punched version for the 6. Again guessing based on part number I only see the .02 skins.

The best way of searching the list though is by part number so not sure a search by elevator shows you everything they have hence it is a good idea to get the plans matching YOUR airplane.

Wait time for in stock items is about 2-3 weeks right now. Shipping will add $$ as skins are not small.. .

Hope that helps.

Oliver
 
So I’m finally getting around to fixing this, hopefully this winter. The crack has been stop drilled and hasn’t changed, but I want to start getting into aerobatics and I won’t do it with a damaged elevator. Putting feelers out for anyone who might have parts or expertise in the Northwest. I’m either looking for a -6 tail kit or a set of elevator skins.

Van’s do have the parts for a reskin last I checked, but I’d rather score a whole tail kit if I can, or get skins from somebody who is trying to get rid of them.
 
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