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Hex/Allen vs. Torx(Plus) vs. Phillips

Just Googling . . . .

Is that a word . . well has anyone checked out /www.aaronssixlobescrews.com ? There are apparently high strength torx, 100 deg available down to #6, but not 4-40. I will call tomorrow. Please post if this is a dead end.

Update: I called the number and the answering machine greeting was not professional, i checked the Better Business Bureau link and they have a long list of complaints, several unresolved. For humor, they apparently rent TV's and furniture (not that there is anything wrong with that). I will scratch this source from potential list. GO SPRUCE !!
 
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i use torx from

Microfasteners everywhere i remove screws frequently. W ish GACH could source steel 100 deg. torxs screws... Not striped one yet...
 
Is that a word . . well has anyone checked out /www.aaronssixlobescrews.com ? There are apparently high strength torx, 100 deg available down to #6, but not 4-40. I will call tomorrow. Please post if this is a dead end.

Update: I called the number and the answering machine greeting was not professional, i checked the Better Business Bureau link and they have a long list of complaints, several unresolved. For humor, they apparently rent TV's and furniture (not that there is anything wrong with that). I will scratch this source from potential list. GO SPRUCE !!

Looked up 8/32 screws and at 3/8" long they are $3.51/each.....! :eek:

For what it's worth, I really like Tom's catalog and web site - it's just the search function that is so difficult to use. Everything is there, just can't find it.....
Still looking for some good 8/32 torx.
 
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I'm curious why so many have problems with philips type of screws for their aircraft. I've got the regular AN cadmium plated steel ones as well as SS ones on my plane. In 10+ years and as many annuals, I've maybe replaced a couple dozen of them. Get a decent driver (with replaceable bits) and you really won't have many damaged. As has been discussed several times in the past, the torx type of screws have a much thinner cross section between the conical exterior and the lobed drive socket. This is why they are not the best for use in structural parts, like attaching fuel tanks.
 
Rob,
With all due respect, the website upgrade has already been suggested and acknowledged by the owner. How about we leave that subject alone and let him deal with it as he sees fit?
Point taken, i've deleted my post. I didn't see the owner's acknowledgement of the issue, and the last time I checked (5 months after first mentioning it) the issue was still present.
 
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I'm curious why so many have problems with philips type of screws for their aircraft. ... This is why [torx] are not the best for use in structural parts, like attaching fuel tanks.
The issue isn't as much with structural parts like fuel tanks, that are installed/removed only rarely in an airplane's lifetime. The issue is with the hundred screws that hold the fairings, seat pans, control channel covers, baggage panels, inspection panels, etc. that get removed and replaced at least once a year at annual time. The design of the phillips head guarantees that the driver will cam out over time, and eventually that will lead to the screwdriver slipping and leaving a nice line across your paint.

Torx sockets are parallel sided and resist camming out by design. Why the phillips head wasn't designed that way as well continues to surprise me. That there have been a dozen or more different designs for newfangled phillips bits that all claim to prevent camming out and stripped heads suggests to me that the problem is more than just in our minds.
 
Could be worse... could be slotted screws, which if I were King would be illegal to manufacture, own, or use.:mad:
 
Most of us want a safe, reliable and reasonably priced fasteners.

And yes we will be investigating the Torx "registered trademark" or similar type of drive for the higher alloy fasteners. It is the design and alloy that makes these so rugged and functional.

I myself have used very little of the screws that came with my kit.;)


Found this thread and i know its old, but didnt find the discussed torx on your site. Did you decide against stocking torx cads?
 
Is that a word . . well has anyone checked out /www.aaronssixlobescrews.com ? There are apparently high strength torx, 100 deg available down to #6, but not 4-40. I will call tomorrow. Please post if this is a dead end.

Update: I called the number and the answering machine greeting was not professional, i checked the Better Business Bureau link and they have a long list of complaints, several unresolved. For humor, they apparently rent TV's and furniture (not that there is anything wrong with that). I will scratch this source from potential list. GO SPRUCE !!


Aarons is a combiner and shipper for twenty or thirty little fastener suppliers in the SC aviation heart land. I get Torx screws from them and they eventually arrive and have always been what I ordered. Customer service is non existent and always specify USPS Priority mail or they will send them UPS 3 day which can be expensive. If you don't order at least 100 of any one part number you will get screwed. Also the coatings affect the cost. With SS, black and waxed is a good choice. They do have 4-40 100 degree Torx screws.

IMO Torx are the only way to go if multiple future removals is anticipated. A quality Torx driver bit is also essential, Snap On sells them on line for four bucks a piece.
 
Aarons is a combiner and shipper for twenty or thirty little fastener suppliers in the SC aviation heart land. I get Torx screws from them and they eventually arrive and have always been what I ordered. Customer service is non existent and always specify USPS Priority mail or they will send them UPS 3 day which can be expensive. If you don't order at least 100 of any one part number you will get screwed. Also the coatings affect the cost. With SS, black and waxed is a good choice. They do have 4-40 100 degree Torx screws.

IMO Torx are the only way to go if multiple future removals is anticipated. A quality Torx driver bit is also essential, Snap On sells them on line for four bucks a piece.

Did a search on Aarons. Wow 6-32 cad plated 5/16" long screws. 10 for $306 cough cough. WTFO? I think I can replace all my phillips 6-32s each annual for the next 10yrs for cheaper than that.
 
Did a search on Aarons. Wow 6-32 cad plated 5/16" long screws. 10 for $306 cough cough. WTFO? I think I can replace all my phillips 6-32s each annual for the next 10yrs for cheaper than that.

Most items are priced by their demand, if you buy screws in 1/2" lengths you will see much better pricing, unless you buy at least 100 you will get raped as previously stated. If you only need a couple stay with what you have. I recently removed the instrument panel and wheels pants from a 12. A hundred screw purchase to replace the Phillips removed easily justified the the 100 lot purchase. Unless you are willing to inventory bulk items like fasteners stay with what you have.
 
Most items are priced by their demand, if you buy screws in 1/2" lengths you will see much better pricing, unless you buy at least 100 you will get raped as previously stated. If you only need a couple stay with what you have. I recently removed the instrument panel and wheels pants from a 12. A hundred screw purchase to replace the Phillips removed easily justified the the 100 lot purchase. Unless you are willing to inventory bulk items like fasteners stay with what you have.

I get the massive order Vern, but lets look at reality. 1/2" 6-32 flat head in cad Type #1 (which is silver, and I'm ok with that) is ~$950 for 1000. A reasonable size quantity I think. So a buck a piece. Really. Same size from Spruce in phillips 6 cents a piece in Cad TypII (amber). At no order size up to even 25000 pieces is this cost effective.....unless youre also buying $500 hammers and toilet lids.
 
Microfasteners.com has 100deg torx: http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/standard.cfm?Category=SSC&SubCategory=FCMXS

button head:
http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/standard.cfm?Category=SSC&SubCategory=SBXS

I love 'em...they don't strip and they can be torqued tighter than phillips screws. I completely avoid phillips head screws if I can.
FWIW: I replaced all my philiips screws with 100 degree TORX from Microfastners in 2007. They have been excellent in durability and extremely difficult to strip. YMMV

:cool:
 
Dissimilar metal contact is always a problem and water makes it worse. Since aluminum fasteners are a non starter you make the best alternative choices. SS is a good start, SS coated and waxed is better, there are better coatings available but the cost goes up. The retention features of nut plates does not help the problem because it likes to wipe/scrape off the coating we just spent a lot of money for, which brings me the the issue of Aames prices.

Below is a copy of my last invoice from them for 6-32 and 8 32 x .500 SS coated and waxed. Average cost about $.45 each in quantities of 100. Torx is expensive always (China does not make them yet) SS is always double or triple the cost depending on grade, Coatings are always an added cost and waxing is more still. Are they worth $.45 each? Ask someone that tried to drill out a stripped Phillips head screw without damaging the pieces being screwed together.

I'm not promoting a senseless argument about value, it always in the mind of the beholder (screwer) :D I have no more to say on this topic.


Thank you for your order.

========== GENERAL INFORMATION ==========
Company: Aames General Store, Inc.
Email: [email protected]
Phone: (714) 838-3575
Order date: 8/21/2017

========== ORDER INFORMATION ==========
Payment By: Visa 4XXXXXXXXXXX2955
Status: APPROVED - 021839
Purchase Order: 794
Order: OnlineOrder_00025253

Product Name: Qty. 100-#6-32 x 1/2, MS Machine Screws, Torx Socket Drive, Flat Head, 18-8 Stainless Steel, Black Oxide & Waxed, RoHS Compliant, Torx Socket T-10 Driver, 82 Degrees Countersink, Machine Screw, Full Thread, DIN 965 Type
Item#: 7040TF2553
Unit Price: $42.28
Quantity: 1
Shipping Method: USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate Box

Product Name: Qty. 100-#8-32 x 1/2, CS Machine Screws, Torx Socket Drive, Button Head, 18-8 Stainless Steel, Black Oxide & Waxed, RoHS Compliant, Torx Socket T-15 Driver, Cap Screw, Full Thread
Item#: 7041TF2585
Unit Price: $47.43
Quantity: 1
Shipping Method: USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate Box

Shipping & Handling: $14.10
Grand Total: $103.81

Special Order Instructions
Please ship in USPS small flat rate box.
 
Product Name: Qty. 100-#6-32 x 1/2, MS Machine Screws, Torx Socket Drive, Flat Head, 18-8 Stainless Steel, Black Oxide & Waxed, RoHS Compliant, Torx Socket T-10 Driver, 82 Degrees Countersink, Machine Screw, Full Thread, DIN 965 Type

Maybe a dumb question, but aren't the dimples and countersunk holes in our airplanes 100 degree countersunk, rather than 82?
 
Snap on Wobble Driver

I had the good fortune of getting this advice/recrecommendation from a fellow RV'er. Buy Wobble head driver bits from Snap On. They cost about $6.00 each and are a very handy addition to your screwdriver. These bits have about a 15 degree movement side to side. This enables the user to drive or remove screws that need a slightly off center driving position ( when not able to get the tool squared to the screw). I won't travel without one.
 
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Maybe a dumb question, but aren't the dimples and countersunk holes in our airplanes 100 degree countersunk, rather than 82?

Not if youre using Homedepot countersink tools! Just kiddin......:D Yes, aviation= 100.
 
Maybe a dumb question, but aren't the dimples and countersunk holes in our airplanes 100 degree countersunk, rather than 82?

Great catch, several months ago I purchased 100 [FONT=&quot]7032TF2085 8-32 x .5 Torx flat head screws that were listed as 100 degree. I ordered the ones on the order form above more recently. I went to the same area on their web site and ordered the 6-32 assuming it would be 100 degree as well. I looked into it today and they do not list a 6-32 Torx 100 degree.


I sent them a note asking if 6-32 100 degree are available as well as a request for an RA. Now we will see how easy they are to deal with on returns :)[/FONT]
 
Great catch, several months ago I purchased 100 [FONT=&quot]7032TF2085 8-32 x .5 Torx flat head screws that were listed as 100 degree. I ordered the ones on the order form above more recently. I went to the same area on their web site and ordered the 6-32 assuming it would be 100 degree as well. I looked into it today and they do not list a 6-32 Torx 100 degree.


I sent them a note asking if 6-32 100 degree are available as well as a request for an RA. Now we will see how easy they are to deal with on returns :)[/FONT]

Yea, the reason I caught that was I was also looking around online for non-Philips (either Torx or allen head) screws and am typing these criteria over and over. 8-32 + Flat head + 100degree + Cadmium plated + longer than 1/2 inch seems like an extremely difficult if not impossible combination to find.
 
Microfastener lists them all the way down to 2-56. For their prices the source has to be China so all bets are off on quality. That's what I like about aames, you get aviation quality fasteners-at a ridiculously high price. However, usually what we are securing with a 6-32 screw is not life endangering if a failure occurs. From my experience with a Chinese fastener the failure will come with the original tightening, if at all. Usually the problem will be the Torx broached six point hole will strip out. In that case we are right back where we were with the Phillips :confused:

http://www.microfasteners.com/fcmxs...ad-6-lobe-drive-machine-screws-stainless.html
 
Thanks for the link to Microfasteners. Unfortunately they don't seem to have #8 screws longer than 1/2 inch. Was hoping to go with torx or allen heads to attach the capacitive plates inside my tanks, but those need to be at least 8R14. The search continues...
 
Um...why? Planning on putting them in and out a bunch of times? IIRC, I installed them once and then sealed up the tanks. :)

Mostly due to my stripping a few heads trying to drive them in at the angle they are. However reading some other tips here, the better solution to that looks like applying some boelube or wax to the thread and using a little patience. Probably makes more sense than using different screws.
 
Those I see are stainless. SS on Al promotes galvanic corrosion in the presence of water.. Do you use them on the exterior of your ship or just interior? If exterior, how have you combated the corrosion issue?
I've been using stainless (austenitic) hex and Torx head screws for ~14, 15 years and they work just fine for a hangared plane. Every no 6, 8, and many of the non structural 10 screws in my plane comes from Micro Fasteners. Just make sure those few snug nutplates have been chased with a tap. That's maybe 1 out of 75-100. I do nothing special for galvanic corrosion except keep it out of the rain.
 
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Socket head screws

Somebody was asking about socket head screws. The link I posted was right to that page. McMaster is also a good source for wobble Allen driver bits.

I get my cad plated 100 degree countersunk screws from ACS and live with the Phillips head. Once they show any wear at all, I throw them away.

Ed Holyoke
 
I'm guessing that no one has been able to source 100 degree, flush head, torx fasteners for structural use, such as the fuel tank and inspection panels yet, have they?

I have browsed the micro fasteners website, but they are stainless screws, which are a bit softer than the AN screws Van's supplies. I am not sure I want my fuel tanks held on with them. McMaster only has 82 degree screws :-(
 
I'm guessing that no one has been able to source 100 degree, flush head, torx fasteners for structural use, such as the fuel tank and inspection panels yet, have they?

I have browsed the micro fasteners website, but they are stainless screws, which are a bit softer than the AN screws Van's supplies. I am not sure I want my fuel tanks held on with them. McMaster only has 82 degree screws :-(

I did find a place that made them to the same material specs as the blueprint fasteners. However, their pricing for small quantities was absurd. You'd really need a group buy from all the RV builders in a large metro area or something to make it reasonable.

If you are so lucky as to find some NAS5316E08P... screws, then they would really be the ones to use. But I haven't found them anywhere.
 
Its been my experience that most people tighten screws, especially interior and panel fasteners for some reason, way too tight. Either stripping the head on the way in or on the way back out. (Poor technique in seating the screwdriver to the slots can also be an issue.)
I like to put a little Boelube on the screw threads when installing and it makes them a lot easier to get in and back out. If you don't have Boelube, try a dab of Vaseline.
May not be your issue but something to think about.
 
Its been my experience that most people tighten screws, especially interior and panel fasteners for some reason, way too tight. Either stripping the head on the way in or on the way back out. (Poor technique in seating the screwdriver to the slots can also be an issue.)
I like to put a little Boelube on the screw threads when installing and it makes them a lot easier to get in and back out. If you don't have Boelube, try a dab of Vaseline.
May not be your issue but something to think about.

And, especially with SS cross head screws, if you put the tiniest dab of valve grinding compound on the screwdriver tip, it will not slip in the screw. Someone gave me this tip a decade ago and I still use it. Works great for me, but as always, YMMV....
 
Beolube I didn't discover until post Empennege, helps out a ton! Haven't tried grounding compound but I did order a mess of extra hardware and throw out screws at the slightest bit of stripping.

For the panel and some interior pieces I'm using Allen stuff from McMasters.
 
...I managed to track down the manufacturer that make the screws that Aircraft Spruce sells. I asked them if they make an AN515-8R8 with a Torx head... ...They said no, but that they could make the same exact screw, plating and all, with a minimum order of 5000.

...I contacted Aircraft Spruce's main office and asked if they would be interested in adding them to their product line. They said that they would be very interested in adding them because they've had several inquiries for Torx head screws. ...


I received a private message over the weekend asking about the Torx head screws so I thought I'd post an update to the forum. ACS is not willing to move forward with them...


There's lots on info in this old thread but it boils down to what's quoted above.

Has this ever come to fruition? Is anyone producing AN515-8R8 (or similar) with a Torx head?
 
AN515

There's lots on info in this old thread but it boils down to what's quoted above.

Has this ever come to fruition? Is anyone producing AN515-8R8 (or similar) with a Torx head?

Not an aviation designation. I bought black torx #6 and #8 for non structural use from McMaster. I really like them. Haven't stripped one yet.
 
Sharpen screw driver tip

I sharpen my Phillips driver bit on my polishing wheel and use valve grading compound. Put a flat tip on the bit. Works great.
 
I'd definitely buy AN507s in 6-32 Torx. I use alot of them in 1/2" for external fairings and cover plates, instruments etc etc.
 
Screws

I bought my torx 100 degree ss screws in #6 and #8 from pencom. Ordered 1000 each and it was around $55 per 1000 screws. Took awhile to get them, but they work great.
 
Screw head problems

Just my method
Biggest problem I have found with the screw heads is over tightening.

I use a Wera PH2 laser cut screwdriver and careful to not over tighten, just nipped up.

Method I use is a Dewalt set on a very low torque setting, just enough to overcome the friction in the nut plate to wind the screw in, I then go over each screw with the screwdriver and just nipping them up after slightly backing them off.
Undoing I crack the screw open with the screwdriver then remove with the Dewalt.
This works for me, it is quick and I rarely have a stuck screw.

My 2p worth.

Rob
 
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