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  #31  
Old 01-21-2022, 09:41 AM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 11,422
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMiller View Post
I personally don’t care if you build E-AB or E-LSA. My point is that you will get the exact same operating limits for IFR/IMC operation either way it’s licensed.
Look a FAR 21.191. There are nine sub groups for “Experimental” certification, including both E-AB and E-LSA. LSA is one path into certification. Both E-AB and E-LSA get specific benefits/penalties for being “experimental” But for IFR operation they are treated equally.
True statement!
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished. Discount for Veterans, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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  #32  
Old 01-21-2022, 10:22 AM
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bkc3921 bkc3921 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DuBois,Il
Posts: 185
Default Ugh..!

I tried to re-read this thread to make sure I had all the rules down pat......but then decided to do something less confusing.... like drinking a fifth of Jack Daniels and unscrambling a Rubik's Cube while strapped to an inversion table.....

This is most certainly the quintessence of FAA rulemaking .....
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Brian K. Morrow
DuBois,Il
N433BC "Muttley" RV-7A Flying
N433BM "Dastardly" RV-12is EMP, FUSE, WINGS, Done...FINISH and POWER PLANT in PROGRESS
Official Repeat Offender
"Maintain thy airspeed...Lest the earth arise and smite thee..."

Last edited by bkc3921 : 01-21-2022 at 10:24 AM. Reason: typo
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  #33  
Old 01-21-2022, 11:04 AM
rcsilvmac rcsilvmac is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: NorCal
Posts: 116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkc3921 View Post
I tried to re-read this thread to make sure I had all the rules down pat......but then decided to do something less confusing.... like drinking a fifth of Jack Daniels and unscrambling a Rubik's Cube while strapped to an inversion table.....

This is most certainly the quintessence of FAA rulemaking .....
LOL!!! We need a "like" button on this forum.
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  #34  
Old 01-21-2022, 11:21 AM
Mich48041 Mich48041 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Riley TWP MI
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There seems to be some confusion with the terms LSA and E-LSA.
LSA describes the characteristics of an aircraft as defined by our government. LSA has nothing to do with aircraft registration.
There is no aircraft registration category called LSA, just as there are no aircraft registration categories called high-wing or tail-dragger.
Many type certificated aircraft are LSA.
Homebuilt aircraft can be registered as E-AB or E-LSA and other ways.
Both E-AB and E-LSA are Experimental. If someone says that they are going to register their aircraft as experimental,
they need to be more specific. Do they mean E-AB or E-LSA or E-Exhibition or what?
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  #35  
Old 01-21-2022, 11:35 AM
SARLDO SARLDO is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkc3921 View Post
I tried to re-read this thread to make sure I had all the rules down pat......but then decided to do something less confusing.... like drinking a fifth of Jack Daniels and unscrambling a Rubik's Cube while strapped to an inversion table.....

This is most certainly the quintessence of FAA rulemaking .....
Sorry to say that I work for a not to be named agency of a not to be named government and it’s what we do. And we’re really good at it.

Pass the bottle…. I’m farther than 50 feet from an aircraft.
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  #36  
Old 01-21-2022, 01:19 PM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 11,422
Default Well, Kinda........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mich48041 View Post
There seems to be some confusion with the terms LSA and E-LSA.
LSA describes the characteristics of an aircraft as defined by our government. LSA has nothing to do with aircraft registration.
There is no aircraft registration category called LSA, just as there are no aircraft registration categories called high-wing or tail-dragger.
Many type certificated aircraft are LSA.
Homebuilt aircraft can be registered as E-AB or E-LSA and other ways.
Both E-AB and E-LSA are Experimental. If someone says that they are going to register their aircraft as experimental,
they need to be more specific. Do they mean E-AB or E-LSA or E-Exhibition or what?
There IS a category called Light-Sport. It is for S-LSA, certificated under §21.190
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished. Discount for Veterans, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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  #37  
Old 01-21-2022, 04:40 PM
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rcarsey rcarsey is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 343
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Here are the actual conditions on my E-LSA AW certificate. This is the same language as used for E-AB and S-LSA.


Quote:
21. Kinds of operations authorized:
Day VFR flight operations are authorized. (47)
22. Night flight operations are authorized if the instruments specified in § 91.205(c) are installed, operational, and maintained per the applicable
requirements of part 91. (48)

23. Instrument flight operations are authorized if the instruments specified in § 91.205(d) are installed, operational, compliant with the performance
requirements of, and maintained per the applicable regulations. All maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the aircraft
maintenance records and include the following items: date, work performed, and name and certificate number of person returning aircraft to service.
However, S-LSA also get:
Quote:
This aircraft may only be operated per the manufacturer’s aircraft
operating instructions (AOI), including any requirement for necessary
operating equipment specified in the aircraft’s equipment list. Night flight
and instrument flight rules (IFR) operations are authorized if allowed by
the AOI and if the instruments specified in § 91.205 are installed,
operational, and maintained per the applicable requirements of part 91.
(6)
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RV-12iS (N713) / Completed 12/2020
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  #38  
Old 01-21-2022, 05:11 PM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
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Location: Dallas area
Posts: 11,422
Default Not Quite...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcarsey View Post
Here are the actual conditions on my E-LSA AW certificate. This is the same language as used for E-AB and S-LSA.[indent]
However, S-LSA also get:
Paragraphs 22 & 23 that you quote are used in Op Lims for E-AB and E-LSA.

If these 2 paragraphs are found in Op Lims for S-LSA, they were issued in error.

Go to FAA Order 8130.2J Appendix D and you will find that these 2 paragraphs are issued to aircraft certificated under 21.191 and 21.191(b), (f), (g). (h), & (i) respectively.

S-LSA are certificated under 21.190.
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished. Discount for Veterans, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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  #39  
Old 01-21-2022, 06:43 PM
SARLDO SARLDO is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
Paragraphs 22 & 23 that you quote are used in Op Lims for E-AB and E-LSA.

If these 2 paragraphs are found in Op Lims for S-LSA, they were issued in error.

Go to FAA Order 8130.2J Appendix D and you will find that these 2 paragraphs are issued to aircraft certificated under 21.191 and 21.191(b), (f), (g). (h), & (i) respectively.
I’ll admit it, I was wrong (that’s twice now). 8130.2J Appendix D is pretty clear.
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  #40  
Old 01-21-2022, 08:41 PM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
Posts: 2,355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bshawco View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that a pilot with a Light Sport license and a "Driver's License medical" is legal to fly an E-LSA certificated airplane but not an E-AB, since an E-AB requires at least a Private Pilot license and 3rd Class Medical.

I'd think that this could be a reason to choose E-LSA over EAB registration.
Nope. As has been more or less mentioned, the airplane just has to fall within the limits of the “light sport” definition. The airplane can be S-LSA, E-LSA, E-AB, or type certificated like an Ercoupe, Cub, Champ, etc. it’s not what’s on the airworthiness certificate, it’s whether or not the plane meets the criteria for max gross weight, speed, stall speed, gear, prop, and so on.
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Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
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