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  #41  
Old 01-21-2022, 11:10 PM
talon167 talon167 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Maryland
Posts: 9
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Yes, Sport Pilots (i.e., driver's license only) can fly (some) E-AB!

The term "LSA" is, in part, a definition for purposes of identifying Sport Pilot privileges. The FAA states that exercising Sport Pilot privileges permits you to operate "Any light-sport aircraft for which you hold the endorsements required for its category and class." The FAA notes that when you get a sport pilot certificate, it "will not have any category and class ratings." The Sport Pilot limitations and privileges dictate what you can fly. One of the privs is to act as PIC of a "light-sport" aircraft.

Yes, there is a "LSA Category" (e.g., S-LSA) but Sport Pilots are not limited to flying LSA Category aircraft - as noted above, the SP certificate does not specify any category limitations (not even an "LSA category" limitation).

One simple fact helps to clarify:
- Certified/standard category planes can (and some do) meet the LSA definitions (e.g., ER Coupe). Is the ER Coupe a certified plane? Yes, but they are also at the same time an "LSA." Why . . . its AW certificate does not state it is an LSA - in fact it was built before the definition existed and they sure the heck did not comply with any LSA ASTM standard when built. Correct, but what is on the ER Coupe's AW certificate does not dictate whether it is an LSA - whether a plane is an LSA for purposes of Sport Pilot privileges is dictated by the FAA (not ASTM) definition.

This conveniently cross-applies to E-AB (yes regs sometimes are logical - shocking, right!).

- Similarly, some E-AB planes can and do meet the FAA's definition of LSA. Can a Sport Pilot act as PIC of an E-AB that meets the definition of an LSA - ya betcha if the Sport Pilot can fly it and be within what is allowed under the SP's privileges! What if you modify that E-AB so that it no longer meets the LSA definition? Then a Sport cannot act as PIC. Pretty simple.

Figuring out what planes you can fly as PIC with Sport Pilot privileges (i.e., driver's license/no 3rd class or basic med req) is a matter of applying the FAA's LSA definition (keeping in mind that the SP priv limitations include more than just the LSA definition that can impact what SP can fly). Whether a plane's AW certificate is standard/certified category or E-AB is 100% not relevant to determining whether a Sport Pilot can act as PIC. It really is that simple.
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  #42  
Old 01-22-2022, 04:40 PM
DaleB's Avatar
DaleB DaleB is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
Posts: 2,353
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Just remember also that the airplane in question, whether EAB or Standard or any other category, must have ALWAYS met 100% of the criteria, since day 1. If (for example) your Champ had an STC that bumped its max gross weight to, say, 1350#, and you remove that STC and return it to a lower, LSA compliant gross weight, well, tough. Still not legal for a Sport Pilot to fly. Ever.

Arenít FAA regulations fun?

But this has not much to do with an RV12. Those can be flown by anyone with a Sport Pilot or higher certificate, assuming you havenít had a medical revoked.
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Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
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  #43  
Old 06-23-2022, 08:28 AM
Sharum Sharum is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: Fort Smith
Posts: 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
Builder's choice. To qualify as ELSA the aircraft must be built exactly per plans and all parts must be purchased from the kit manufacturer.
Some people prefer to make minor or major modifications during the build. Or in some cases they may already have an engine or avionics and prefer to install these as opposed to ordering new from Vans. The builder my opt for EAB so that he/she doesn't have to go to class to obtain the repairman certificate. EAB can be modified to take it out of the Light-Sport parameters. ELSA cannot. There can be a multitude of reasons.
EAB is not necessarily better or worse than ELSA. Just different.
My question would be.... If I already have a 100hp Rotax 912-ULS (exact engine spec-d for this kit) and not buy one thru Vans... would that require me to go the E-AB route? In other words... does it have to meet spec or does it have to be purchased thru kit manufacturer?
Thanks for any information you can offer.

David
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  #44  
Old 06-23-2022, 08:44 AM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharum View Post
In other words... does it have to meet spec or does it have to be purchased thru kit manufacturer?
Thanks for any information you can offer.
The answer is yes to both questions.
Meeting the second requirement automatically assures it meets the first one.

Van's has to supply an ELSA builder with a form (Form 8130-15) certifying that the airplane kit was delivered able to be built as an exact copy of our SLSA aircraft. The able part is because it is then the builders responsibility to build it that way, and they have to sign the same form at certification certifying that they did so.
Van's is burdened with assuring that happens, and to help assure that, the FAA requires Van's to supply all components in order to sign the form certifying it as an ELSA kit.
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Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop
FAA/DAR
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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  #45  
Old 06-23-2022, 08:51 AM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 11,420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
The answer is yes to both questions.
Meeting the second requirement automatically assures it meets the first one.
Van's has to supply an ELSA builder with a form (Form 8130-15) certifying that the airplane kit was delivered able to be built as an exact copy of our SLSA aircraft. The able part is because it is then the builders responsibility to build it that way, and they have to sign the same form at certification certifying that they did so.
Van's is burdened with assuring that happens, and to help assure that, the FAA requires Van's to supply all components in order to sign the form certifying it as an ELSA kit.
As Scott says, Van's furnishes all components to build as an E-LSA. You must "show" the inspector that you built the aircraft exactly per the plans with no modifications. If there are any deviations from the plans, you must submit written documentation from the kit manufacturer approving such deviations.
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished. Discount for Veterans, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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