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Considering RV Build - Introduction

Hello all,

I've been considering building an RV7 taildragger for a few years, and am about to order the empennage kit next month. Finally have a combination of the space/time/money that I think it is likely to be completed in a reasonable amount of time. The goal would be to have it flying within 2 years (QB kit ), which is almost certainly too ambitious, but I won't be upset if it takes longer either.

About myself - I'm a 34 year old married engineer in Florida. Part time CFI - Airplane/Glider, I've been flying about 200 hours/year. Looking for something fast, primarily for 500m X/C flights, 2 people. Have considered buying a Mooney or Bonanza, but the RV seems to fit the flying I would do better, and eventually at a lower cost.

Any advice before I get started? I've read these forums pretty thoroughly, especially the builder tips, watched plenty of EAA videos, been to Sun 'n Fun a few times, and have spent many years around airplane hangers, sometimes turning wrenches. I have a feeling I'll be buying a lot of beers for the A&P's I know over the next few years :)
 
Welcome to VAF!

Russ, welcome to the good ship VAF:D

If you have not ever flown in an RV, I would suggest the first step would be to find a ride somewhere.

Good to have you here.
 
Unless your convinced you want to build, you might consider buying an RV. With a bit of shopping you can find one for less than it would cost you to build and with patience, cash in hand, and a watchful eye, you can score a real bargain. Buying a flying RV obviously circumvents the delay you'll encounter building. Another possibility is sell what you're flying, buy an RV and start building your dream machine (this is the route I've finally taken).

Take the advice to fly an RV. Get as much RV time as you can and if your experience is like mine, flying spam cans won't be the same. You'll want your own RV ASAP. There are lots of RV pilots in Florida - find them and go flying. If you find yourself near Richmond, I'll take you flying in my 9A.
 
Unless your convinced you want to build, you might consider buying an RV. With a bit of shopping you can find one for less than it would cost you to build and with patience, cash in hand, and a watchful eye, you can score a real bargain. Buying a flying RV obviously circumvents the delay you'll encounter building. Another possibility is sell what you're flying, buy an RV and start building your dream machine (this is the route I've finally taken).

Take the advice to fly an RV. Get as much RV time as you can and if your experience is like mine, flying spam cans won't be the same. You'll want your own RV ASAP. There are lots of RV pilots in Florida - find them and go flying. If you find yourself near Richmond, I'll take you flying in my 9A.


This.

If you want to have/fly an RV, you can buy for less than what you'll build for (adding up tools, time, mistakes, beer, etc).

If you want to BUILD your RV however....
 
I agree with most of the comments so far. Today, it really isn't necessary to build just because you want this particular airplane. Build because it provides its own majority value, whether it be quality shop time, or because "I built it!". Often you hear, "Are you a builder or a flyer?". I'm 55% / 45% one way or the other depending on the day, which means I always have to have something in the shop and something in the air. If your numbers are much further, your choice is clear. If you build, it WILL change your life, as well as your family. Plan on only flying 75 out of those 200hrs that you are flying per year during your build.
 
Welcome Russ,
Well I have to disagree with the buy thought... Sure you can buy an RV because there are some folks who get so old they can't fly them after they build em.
,
So it is true a lot of them are given away, unfortunately we have a great plane and if folks would stick to their guns you'd have to pay 140,000 for a 2 place RV because I did study the market and have flown my whole life and their is no other airplane with the numbers flying that come close to the RV with out spending 200,000. So yes I am building even at 63 and I pray the good Lord gives me another few years to enjoy this airplane it does a lot well and a lot extremely well.

Go take a test flight, there are a few hundred great guys on this site who would be honored to take you up. In fact I have not met a bad RVer yet..
I am closing in on my first flight. Perhaps within 3 months... And if that is the case it will have been a 2 year 5 month build. It could be longer if I keep having to fly...
Best to you.. Regardless of the road you take.

Smilin' Jack
 
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Similar shoes

I'm 33, married, engineer, new baby, live in easy climate, etc. and have been building for 11 months. If you've already settled on the QB, and have no kids there's no reason you can't finish in less than two years. It's true, it seems you can buy one for about the price it takes to build one, which is sad. But over the past year of building and monitoring VAF I have yet to see a plane listed that matched the specs I wanted at a price I liked. So if you're at all particular in your ways you might just be more satisfied in building you're own. Keep in mind it will be BRAND SPANKIN NEW.
 
9 years later, finally ordered the RV-7 emp kit and (mostly) cleaned out the garage.

Having owned an airplane for a while, I've got a better idea what I'm getting myself into!
 
New builder

9 years later, finally ordered the RV-7 emp kit and (mostly) cleaned out the garage.

Having owned an airplane for a while, I've got a better idea what I'm getting myself into!

Wow. 9 years between first and second post!
Me thinks you don't need advise anymore.
Build on!
 
Well, sincerely hope your assembling (quick built, right?) will progress rapidly. The biggest asset in “building” it yourself is the ability to customize it from the onset to make it yours :)

What one will only sparsely read about on this site, is the number of people that quit during the build… or people that did not enjoy building as such…

I’ve had such a project myself, dragged over years. Changed jobs, relocated, divorced, new/better RV models seeing the light as motivation (…), and life moving on…
I always new being more a pilot than a builder type I guess ;)

So, if you’re the same, a quick built certainly is, short of buying a finished RV, the best option. Good luck!
 
Nothing in your intro said anything to me about you being a builder. It was all about flying.
Are you a builder? Do you work with your hands? Do you like spending hours alone, in the shop, in a garage, making, tinkering, fixing?

Find yourself a builder in your area. Go to your local EAA chapter. Ask around. There are plenty of rv builders everywhere. Go help him. Try it. See if it lights a fire or seems like work.

Your post is that of a buyer not a builder. Buyers who thought they wanted to build, among other reasons, list there unfinished kits here.

best
 
First thing for the OP to do IMHO would be to seriously evaluate his commitment to building. I did, and I don’t have it. My observation from friends who’ve built and from reading posts here on VAF and on EAA forums indicates that building an airplane is a 3-7 year exercise in problem-solving. That can be frustrating in itself, but add in the non-building obstacles such as parts availability, long and increasingly expensive shipping, component availability (engines and avionics) and the frustrations mount….a whole different set of problems to solve that at going to be MUCH less satisfying to do so. No doubt some people thrive on that kind problem solving and find that the satisfaction of completing an airplane (years later) makes the exercise worthwhile. God bless ‘em…because without those committed builders, us non-builders wouldn’t have airplanes to fly. I silently give thanks to my airplane’s OB every time I get in it, appreciating his commitment, expertise, and craftsmanship. His effort gave me a cost-effective way to fly a well-built, well-engineered, well-equipped and high-performing airplane, and best of all, I didn’t have to build it myself.
 
Reluctant builder

I was a reluctant builder. I had the skills and experience but knew it was going to cost more to build than buy and the build process would be stressful. Trouble was it was pretty hard to find one that I wanted to buy. The nice ones sold in a week. They were almost always half way across the country and the logistics to inspect, purchase and deliver was just not going to happen. I looked at a couple of partially completed kits that were horrifying. The more I looked the more I wanted one so I built. It was very stressful and expensive and I really didn’t enjoy it but I have one that flies great and haven’t seen another one I like better.

The pic is of an early RV8 project that was for sale that actually flew but was disassembled. There was not one usable part on the entire plane.
Mike
 

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To a complete outsider like me (interested at RV but never fly, build or see it's being built), could you please point out what were wrong in the build shown in the picture? Like missing rivets, misaligned parts, etc. Would really appreciate that, since I have almost no clue...
 
A valid question that has me questioning my own expectations. It was an older airplane. SN around 150. A lot of the external riveting looked OK. In general I think his tool of choice for adding the wiring was an axe.

The best place to learn about the state of the art of RV’s is too look at peoples build logs for pictures of that part of the plane
 
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New builder! WELCOME!

9 years later, finally ordered the RV-7 emp kit and (mostly) cleaned out the garage.

Having owned an airplane for a while, I've got a better idea what I'm getting myself into!

Well, you have now taken The Plunge! Congratulations! It is the first step in a project you will treasure your entire life! And, when you are finished, you will have one of the best aircraft on the PLANET you will have built with your own hands! [Wait: YOU built that airplane? Really?]

Building your own airplane, you can craft it to be EXACTLY the way you want it to be. Will there be times of frustration and confusion? Yes. But you will persevere and have a piece of sculpture you made yourself that actually flies!

I am a flyer but loved the build as well. Took me 6.5 years back in the day when the word "quick build" had no meaning. It was boxes of somewhat formed aluminum that required a lot of work to make it look like an airplane. Prepunched? :D:D:D Another word with no meaning. I had the Cub to fly while I was building but that cut into my flying time as well. I started in a small one car garage. Then Life Changes happened. Moved. Changed job locations. Got married. Still the build continued. To eventually one AMAZING aircraft! Years later I was able to hang the "1,000 hours" plaque on the prop at OSH.

Another benefit of building: you can apply for and get your Aircraft Repairman Certificate and work on your own airplane....if you built it.

I've included some early photographs of my start.....perhaps for a little bit of encouragement.....
 

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To a complete outsider like me (interested at RV but never fly, build or see it's being built), could you please point out what were wrong in the build shown in the picture? Like missing rivets, misaligned parts, etc. Would really appreciate that, since I have almost no clue...

Well, I'm not a builder yet, so more experienced members will point out a lot more I'm sure, but some obvious things:

1. The stiffener is no longer a stiffener since a good part of it was cut out (more correctly hacked with a butter knife) to make the wires fit closer to the side. It's a stiffener, not a doubler. In general, never cut or drill holes in anything you don't know for certain (like, it's in the plans) are ok.

2. I seem some rivets that look like bent nails, and many others that look barely set from narrow shop ends.

3. I won't even discuss the wiring.
 
YIKES............

The pic is of an early RV8 project that was for sale that actually flew but was disassembled. There was not one usable part on the entire plane.

I can't even LOOK at that picture there is so much WRONG going on.:eek::eek::eek: No wonder it was disassembled.......it looks like it would have eventually disassembled itself!!:eek::eek::eek:
 
Nothing in your intro said anything to me about you being a builder. It was all about flying.
Are you a builder? Do you work with your hands? Do you like spending hours alone, in the shop, in a garage, making, tinkering, fixing?

I'm an engineer most of the time. I've rebuilt engines, done a lot a fiberglass work, and from my day job have plenty of experience with electronics, especially radios. Sheet metal? That's all going to be new (already have a large garage with an air compressor, drills, bench grinder, etc.) And I work from home, with a fair bit of downtime during the day.

Will the project get finished? Who knows. If it turns out I like doing it, probably. If I don't, well - I guess I'll figure out how to make a horizontal stab coffee table. Don't think there is a more honest answer until I start.

Dealing with MX for an airplane I own certainly tipped the scales in the building decision. At first, I would use a shop for anything not in Part 43 Appendix A(c). After frequently waiting a month for a shop to look at something I could have fixed myself in 20 minutes, I started fixing things myself first and having an then having an A&P sign off. Specifically for avionics wiring, I'm looking forward to being able to do that myself - I haven't been impressed with the quality of work I see from a lot of places.

I'm sure I'll be back with questions sooner than 9 years from now, glad this forum is here!
 
I enjoy building, but it's not without frustrations and stress at times. The hardest thing for me has been finding the good enough. It's easy to get tunnel vision on the smallest things thinking that the wings are going to fall off if you have one bad rivet.

There is another option if you don't want to go totally QB. You could get a QB wing kit and slow build fuse kit. Or vice versa. I'm building the wings now and I thought about canceling the slow build fuse order and ordering a QB to speed things up.
 
There is another option if you don't want to go totally QB. You could get a QB wing kit and slow build fuse kit. Or vice versa. I'm building the wings now and I thought about canceling the slow build fuse order and ordering a QB to speed things up.

Don't know that I have to decide yet, but I'm in no particular hurry. Already have an airplane, and shopping for another one.

QB makes a lot of sense, and likely to be the way I end up going (unless my spouse really enjoys working on the project). We started going the composite route 10 years ago, she did not like that.
 
Build

Don't let anyone make up your mind for you.
Yes, building takes a person who is of that mindset.
Not to blow my own horn but the descriptions of some of the pre-build inspections makes me think my Lucy is worth a lot! Four Tech Inspections by three different Tech Counselors. All said "Excellent Work". Funny. One warned me to be prepared for a let down because he never sees good construction. One more to go very soon just before she's ready for the DAR. You don't want to know how long I've been building.

Anyway, if you're a hobby person, then build. Folks like that don't draw timelines in the sand. It's done when it's done. It's the journey and pride. I've restorred cars, built engines, built all the furniture in the house plus a bunch for others and built a dozen RC airplanes. All while a full time salaried Manager. I even worked seven days a week for two years.

However, as others have said, if your not a builder, don't start building without spending time with a Mentor to see if it's of interest.

It sounds like finding a quality build is like finding a '63 split window vette in a barn. :D
 
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That can be frustrating in itself, but add in the non-building obstacles such as parts availability, long and increasingly expensive shipping, component availability (engines and avionics) and the frustrations mount….a whole different set of problems to solve that at going to be MUCH less satisfying to do so.

Yeah, I deal with a lot of that already with the airplane I have now. Scrounging up rare parts takes time, for sure.

A few months ago I got a quote for $14k for a pair hydraulic valves.. Found some within two days for $250. Looking in the airplane shop manual, it turned out there was an easy test to rule them out as the problem anyway.
 
Well said.....

Don't let anyone make up your mind for you.
Yes, building takes a person who is of that mindset.
Not to blow my own horn but the descriptions of some of the pre-build inspections makes me think my Lucy is worth a lot! Four Tech Inspections by three different Tech Counselors. All said "Excellent Work". Funny. One warned me to be prepared for a let down because he never sees good construction. One more to go very soon just before she's ready for the DAR. You don't want to know how long I've been building.

Anyway, if you're a hobby person, then build. Folks like that don't draw timelines in the sand. It's done when it's done. It's the journey and pride. I've restorred cars, built engines, built all the furniture in the house plus a bunch for others and built a dozen RC airplanes. All while a full time salaried Manager. I even worked seven days a week for two years.

However, as others have said, if your not a builder, don't start building without spending time with a Mentor to see if it's of interest.

I was lucky enough to put myself through college working as an aircraft mechanic, learning that skill at the same time as my Other Career Path. Jumping in to building an airplane from scratch never bothered me. I am a perfectionist and is why, along with all the other Life Changes, my build took 6.5 years. I had similar comments from people inspecting SuzieQ. I have seen 20 footers that still seem to fly..... I figured if my butt was suspended in the air by something I built, I had better do a good job. "But the Gods see everywhere...." Sometimes I go out in the hangar and just look at her.....:):):)

It sounds like finding a quality build is like finding a '63 split window vette in a barn. :D

Isn't that the truth! I have seen some......'interesting' things walking the line at OSH. '63 Split window::):) one of my favorite cars. It was the first Vette I rode in as a teenager and I was bitten......:cool:
 
Yeah, I deal with a lot of that already with the airplane I have now. Scrounging up rare parts takes time, for sure.

A few months ago I got a quote for $14k for a pair hydraulic valves.. Found some within two days for $250. Looking in the airplane shop manual, it turned out there was an easy test to rule them out as the problem anyway.

Well...those issues notwithstanding, I can imagine the satisfaction and sense of accomplishment felt by those who are committed enough to build one of these things, and build them well. It's not for me, but I'm excited for you and wish you the best in the journey.
 
I thought I was a builder

I have a friend who makes airplane building (and everything mechanical) look easy. When I first got licensed, I sold my training C150 and bought a PA12 project from an estate. I then did nothing on it for a couple of years. My friend would come over, weld on a tab and give me direction, but when he left, I would not have the confidence to do anything on it. I finally sold it and bought my next flying aircraft, and more afterwards. I like doing small upgrades, but, as we all know, am limited with certified aircraft.

Fast forward to now.... I think I am still not a builder. I was lucky (I think, time will tell) in that I found an R4 "fixer uppper", which I refer to as an ultimate fast build. It was flown in here so I know it flies, but I now have the wings off and am looking forward to working on it over the next 6 months. Perhaps in that journey, I will decide I will tackle a full build of another model, or realize that, thankfully, my required upgrades will be modest (in the big scheme) and I have a flying aircraft in half a year, or so.....

It sounds like the OP has put a lot of thought into this and is ready to gamble on a section.
I am looking forward to hear what you discover about yourself.

I noted you mentioned your partner helping. I know mine will not be holding a bucking bar! lol...

Good luck!
 
However, as others have said, if your not a builder, don't start building without spending time with a Mentor to see if it's of interest.

10 years later, and 1 year into the build. It's been frustrating, but not for the reasons I would have expected. I know I can build an airplane now. I know how to fix the stuff I manage to screw up (usually twice in a row, so far). No fear there.

The frustration is the same as certified airplanes though -- being able to source serviceable parts. Got of to a great start, and then waited 8 months on backordered parts. Then, found out I was throwing away all the stuff I had already done.

Anyway, where does that leave me? I guess shopping around for partially completed or not started sub kits right now.

Moral of the story, I should have started 10 years ago.
 
We've all had setbacks in life, and especially while building an RV. Don't beat yourself up. I spent 18 years building my RV, with several years of no progress at all due to various reasons. Others here have taken longer than that. You can't change what's done, but the destination is worth the journey. Build on. :)
 
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