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Is the RV-8 Really a Poor Man’s P-51?

Ironflight

VAF Moderator / Line Boy
Mentor
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Many years ago, I was at lunch with someone from Van’s (might have been The Man himself, but I don’t want to actually put words in his mouth) who said “The RV-8 flies like most people THINK a Mustang flies!” The implication was that there is actually quite a bit of difference, and now I can confirm it. Last week I got a chance to fly the new Scalewings SW-51 Carbon Fiber 70% Mustang replica for the magazine, and in order to do a full evaluation, I felt it was important to go fly a real P-51 to get a good comparison. That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it!

Jim Rust (Whirlwind Propellor proprietor and chief engineer) happens to have access to a P-51D with a back seat, and offered a rare chance to go get some stick time. After watching his outstanding handling of his engine failure at Reno a few weeks ago, I was happy to fly with him!

To read about the Scalewings bird, and how it compares to the P-51, you’ll have to wait for the magazine to come out, but I can give a little “bonus eval” for all the RV-8 drivers here on VAF.

Bottom line - the RV-8 is a light, nimble machine compared to the truck-like handling qualities of the P-51. You’d sort of expect that when you look at 1200 horsepower versus 180 (or 200), and the gross weight difference of 8,000 lbs versus 1800. The Mustang will go wherever you put it, and flies nice large aerobatic figures - so long as you have the muscle for it!

The Mustang’s cockpit is very similar in size to the RV-8 - I felt I had about the same amount of room in either the front or rear seats as compared to their counterparts in the -8. This despite the fact that the P-51 is a HUGE airplane by comparison - heck, the prop alone is 11 feet in diameter! To get in, you mountaineer your way up the front main gear and on to the wing, and get off by sliding down the extended flap when you’re done flying. Why do we park RV’s with the flaps down? Because Mustangs did it…..

Fuel burn? 60 gph in round numbers in cruise for the Mustang. I get about 8.5 when LOP in my -8 at altitude. Of course, I’m going nowhere nearly as fast. Initial climb in the Mustang was about 4,000 fpm I think - it was so noisy at 55 inches of boost, I couldn’t ask, and couldn’t see the instruments from the back. The -8 will do about 2,000.

So yeah - the RV-8 does fly the way folks THINK the P-51 flies - but in truth, it is much easier handling, burns less gas, fits in an average hangar, and doesn’t require a tractor to move around on the ground. If someone gave me a Mustang and paid for my fuel (and maintenance) would I trade in my RV-8? Probably…but then, I still have an RV-3 for fingertip flying when I don’t feel the need for weightlifting……

Paul
 
As an armchair P-51 jockey, I've often wondered how the -8 might measure up as a Mustang Lite. Personally though, I'd just be happy to mimic the lowly P-40 (and am in the midst of doing that now - preview below).

Many thanks for the pirep, Paul. Sounds like you got to experience the best of both worlds.

-John Newkirk
AVG/Flying Tigers Association
 

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If I recall correctly, many moons ago, perhaps in the old Van's quarterly, a test pilot who had flown the 51, 47 and Bearcat reflected very favorably on his flight in one of the early RV-4's. Fingertip light controls, very fast response and most of all could be financially viable for the Walter Mitty fighter pilot.

Yes, the 8 is dandy but hasn't ever gotten on my 6 :)

Cheers, Hans
 
If I recall, there are two different bell crank or horn positions that can be selected for the P-51 ailerons. One position gives full aileron throw for maneuverability, but gives quite heavy aileron 'feel'. The other setting gives reduced aileron throw, but the reduced 'gearing' makes the ailerons a fair bit lighter. Unless you want to do dog-fighting or fast aerobatics, I would think most would use the reduced gearing.

Would you happen to know how Jim's is set up?
 
I own and a fly a Titan T51 Mustang replica, 70%ish with a 300 HP motor. It is a nimble plane and with over 165 hrs in it last year I can tell you it’s a blast. I am almost ready for flight test in my RV8 and I will give y’all the comparison when I get done.
 
P51

Hey Paul,

Not to hijack this thread but I have to share the following.

Did you actually fly in this P51? The one in the picture is a former RCAF P51 9227. A close friend of mine who passed in Dec 2019, told me a great story about that exact P51. Fern Villeneuve was a RCAF fighter pilot during the glory days and was the original leader of the Golden Hawks. On July 14, 1954, he was in Chatham, New Brunswick and there were a number of P51s being decommissioned and sitting on the ramp heading to Ontario. He was a Sabre jock at the time and bugged and bugged his CO to fly the P51. CO told him to read the pilots notes, do an exam and the following day, he was flying the P51.

Here is a little capture of it here for those interested.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ShoAUCoAo

Fern said he envied me for building my 8. He was my second passenger. Sure miss the guy. Would love to see that mustang in person.

Cheers


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Many years ago, I was at lunch with someone from Van’s (might have been The Man himself, but I don’t want to actually put words in his mouth) who said “The RV-8 flies like most people THINK a Mustang flies!” The implication was that there is actually quite a bit of difference, and now I can confirm it. Last week I got a chance to fly the new Scalewings SW-51 Carbon Fiber 70% Mustang replica for the magazine, and in order to do a full evaluation, I felt it was important to go fly a real P-51 to get a good comparison. That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it!

Jim Rust (Whirlwind Propellor proprietor and chief engineer) happens to have access to a P-51D with a back seat, and offered a rare chance to go get some stick time. After watching his outstanding handling of his engine failure at Reno a few weeks ago, I was happy to fly with him!

To read about the Scalewings bird, and how it compares to the P-51, you’ll have to wait for the magazine to come out, but I can give a little “bonus eval” for all the RV-8 drivers here on VAF.

Bottom line - the RV-8 is a light, nimble machine compared to the truck-like handling qualities of the P-51. You’d sort of expect that when you look at 1200 horsepower versus 180 (or 200), and the gross weight difference of 8,000 lbs versus 1800. The Mustang will go wherever you put it, and flies nice large aerobatic figures - so long as you have the muscle for it!

The Mustang’s cockpit is very similar in size to the RV-8 - I felt I had about the same amount of room in either the front or rear seats as compared to their counterparts in the -8. This despite the fact that the P-51 is a HUGE airplane by comparison - heck, the prop alone is 11 feet in diameter! To get in, you mountaineer your way up the front main gear and on to the wing, and get off by sliding down the extended flap when you’re done flying. Why do we park RV’s with the flaps down? Because Mustangs did it…..

Fuel burn? 60 gph in round numbers in cruise for the Mustang. I get about 8.5 when LOP in my -8 at altitude. Of course, I’m going nowhere nearly as fast. Initial climb in the Mustang was about 4,000 fpm I think - it was so noisy at 55 inches of boost, I couldn’t ask, and couldn’t see the instruments from the back. The -8 will do about 2,000.

So yeah - the RV-8 does fly the way folks THINK the P-51 flies - but in truth, it is much easier handling, burns less gas, fits in an average hangar, and doesn’t require a tractor to move around on the ground. If someone gave me a Mustang and paid for my fuel (and maintenance) would I trade in my RV-8? Probably…but then, I still have an RV-3 for fingertip flying when I don’t feel the need for weightlifting……

Paul
 
Back in the early 90's when I got my PIC there was a guy who sold rides in a P-51 at Van Nuys airport for $750 a half hour. I really wanted to go but I thought it was just too much money. Then in 2002 I was in Kissimmee Fl. Stallion 51 sells rides and flight training $1500 a half hour. Again, wanted to but didn't want to spend the money. Now 2019. In the Keys. Marathon was having the Collins group giving rides in a few planes. One was a P-51. This time $2200 a half hour. So again I start to walk back to the car and my wife says "Just go ahead and do it. You have been wanting to for almost 30 years" So out came the credit card.
The first thing the pilot asked me was "What kind of plane do you fly". At that time, I had an RV-8. He said " this is going to be a lot different, RVs are awesome planes". He was right. Like Paul said, the plane was a tank. Can't imagine what it was like loaded with fuel and armaments. Did some loops and rolls. One thing that I did was a 350mph fly-by low pass. Can't do that in an 8.

Bottom line, for me, after waiting all those years, it was a disappointment. The RV-8 is way more fun to Fly. But I am the only one on my block that has ever got to fly a P-51.
 
I've always heard that the -8 was a "poor man's T-34"...

I agree that a P-51 flies like a truck...heavy on the controls, especially when you've got some smash going...but it's the best looking thing on the ramp...

I thought an AT-6 (with servos...G model?) handled very RV-like...looks like a bulldozer, but light on the stick.

Now an F-16...there's an airplane...too bad you need a friend with a ladder to get in and out of one (and, well, you can't get one...) :D
 
Hey Paul,

Not to hijack this thread but I have to share the following.

Did you actually fly in this P51? The one in the picture is a former RCAF P51 9227. A close friend of mine who passed in Dec 2019, told me a great story about that exact P51. Fern Villeneuve was a RCAF fighter pilot during the glory days and was the original leader of the Golden Hawks. On July 14, 1954, he was in Chatham, New Brunswick and there were a number of P51s being decommissioned and sitting on the ramp heading to Ontario. He was a Sabre jock at the time and bugged and bugged his CO to fly the P51. CO told him to read the pilots notes, do an exam and the following day, he was flying the P51.

Hi Don,

I can’t tell you for sure, but it sounds likely - yes, I flew this airplane, and yes, Jim Rust told me that it came from a Canadian allotment of P-51’s. It also did time as a Reno racer at one time….. small world!

Paul
 
Got an "invite" to take a ride in the attached P51, a few years back. If I were to have a "bucket list" this would definitely be on it so of course I wasted not time saying **YES!!!**.

The only difference in my experience from Paul's is that most of our flight was at low power settings to "preserve the engine". At those settings (I forget what they were but maybe we were in the 200+ kts range and NOT the 300+ kts range), the controls felt a lot like my RV8 at its "high speed".


P51.jpg

After the AWESOME P51 ride, I had an even GREATER appreciation for the RV8.
 
James,

It was our absolute pleasure to have you fly with us.

I was fortunate to fly the Tree Tree Mustang for two years. I have also owned three RVs (RV-8, RV-7 and now, another RV-8. It's difficult to do a direct comparison between the RV-8 and the P-51. There are obvious differences, size, weight, performance but there are very interesting similarities. I found the sight picture for takeoff and landing very similar between the two. So much so, that before each P-51 flight, I would "warm up" by doing multiple takeoffs and landings in the 8. Takeoff acceleration in the 51 is very close to my RV-8 (IO-360 angle valve, CS prop). Obviously, you're sitting higher in the Mustang but the pilot's sight picture is very close. Next, ground handling is also very similar. The Mustang is a BIG airplane without any sort of boosted controls so, at times, it is less nimble than our 8s but by no means, would I ever describe it as truck like. After all, it would go head to head with the world's best fighters in it's day and usually came out on top.

I am indeed blessed to have experience in these wonderful aircraft. Both are spectacular.
 

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Another Wannabe Fighter Pilot Weighs In

P-51, Spitfire, Hurricane, P-47, P-40 are my hero, halo airplanes. I had the inestimable privilege of getting a back sat ride in a P-51D a few years back. There was a set of flight controls back there and the pilot, a good friend, put his fear and good sense aside long enough to let me fly the airplane around a bit. My first surprise was that it flew like... an airplane. "Well, what did you expect?" I asked myself. Well. Ailerons were surprisingly quick, light and crisp. Elevator was some heavier than I expected. Rudder even more so. At first it felt a little unbalanced but I got onto it quickly. I 'spect the elevator might be heavy on purpose, to keep the pilot from accidentally overyanking the thing around too much during combat. I was so excited I forgot to take the headset off for at least a few seconds to see what a Merlin sounded like unmuffled. Anyway, we rolled it, looped it and I did just a plain ol' power off stall. It was surprisingly docile but I didn't do any accelerated stalls, the real measure of high alpha handling. Sorry, can't compare it to an RV-8 because I've never flown one, but compared to our RV-6, it was of course much different. Certainly the Mustang is heavier and feels that way. The -6 wins the tossable contest hands down of course. Just can't get around the fact that the P-51 was designed to haul six big guns over long distances and the RVs are for much lower cost fun. In a perfect world, I'd have about 20 airplanes. The P-51 is a magnificent airplane. But if I had to pick just one (and I do) I'd pick our RV-6. OK, when we bought our -6, I was actually hoping for an RV-4 so I could sit in the front, in the middle and pretend I was in a single seat fighter, but the side-by-each seating in the -6 has worked so much better for flying with my CFI wife and Young Eagles, I've never regretted it.
 
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... Last week I got a chance to fly the new Scalewings SW-51 Carbon Fiber 70% Mustang replica for the magazine, and in order to do a full evaluation, I felt it was important to go fly a real P-51 to get a good comparison. ...

Paul, thank you for your sacrifice, for us, and for science! :D

Looking forward to that article. The Scalewings aircraft sure looks nice - I saw it at Friedrichshafen and was very impressed. If it flies half as good as it looks it will be a hit.
 
James,

It was our absolute pleasure to have you fly with us.

I was fortunate to fly the Tree Tree Mustang for two years. I have also owned three RVs (RV-8, RV-7 and now, another RV-8. It's difficult to do a direct comparison between the RV-8 and the P-51. There are obvious differences, size, weight, performance but there are very interesting similarities. I found the sight picture for takeoff and landing very similar between the two. So much so, that before each P-51 flight, I would "warm up" by doing multiple takeoffs and landings in the 8. Takeoff acceleration in the 51 is very close to my RV-8 (IO-360 angle valve, CS prop). Obviously, you're sitting higher in the Mustang but the pilot's sight picture is very close. Next, ground handling is also very similar. The Mustang is a BIG airplane without any sort of boosted controls so, at times, it is less nimble than our 8s but by no means, would I ever describe it as truck like. After all, it would go head to head with the world's best fighters in it's day and usually came out on top.

I am indeed blessed to have experience in these wonderful aircraft. Both are spectacular.

A **THOUSAND THANK YOUs!!!** for that awesome experience.
 
I own and a fly a Titan T51 Mustang replica, 70%ish with a 300 HP motor. It is a nimble plane and with over 165 hrs in it last year I can tell you it’s a blast. I am almost ready for flight test in my RV8 and I will give y’all the comparison when I get done.

So maybe you'll sell me the T51 when you're done with the RV8? :D

How is it to get into and out of compared with the RV8? I had to sell my RV8 due to an back injury a couple of years ago and I'm looking for options but hadn't considered the T51.
 
Back in 1992 I flew the TF-51 "Crazy Horse" in Kissimmee with Lee Lauderback, me in the back seat of course. At that time I had no experience in RV´s, but was expecting a very agile and maneuverable airplane with very light flight controls. I was wrong, not disappointed, but surprised by - according to my feel - heavy flight controls and a very stable flying aircraft which reminded me more on a Bonanza and not a Pitts I was flying that time. Now it makes sense as the P-51 is also a long range fighter and heavier flight controls help to protect the airframe from the unexperienced.
Somehow the RV-8 reminds not only me on P-51s, center seating, bubble canopy and also in my case the paint scheme.
 
If I recall correctly, many moons ago, perhaps in the old Van's quarterly, a test pilot who had flown the 51, 47 and Bearcat reflected very favorably on his flight in one of the early RV-4's. Fingertip light controls, very fast response and most of all could be financially viable for the Walter Mitty fighter pilot.

Yes, the 8 is dandy but hasn't ever gotten on my 6 :)

Cheers, Hans

You might be thinking of an old Kitplanes article. Chuck Berthe, another man and I were all asked to write about what we thought were the best handling airplanes. They both voted for RV-4. I owned an RV-4 at the time but after due consideration of the Pitts S-2 of some variety, voted for the Thunder Mustang. Why? Ailerons were responsive and light at all speeds.
 
Canadian P51's

Some of the Canadian P51's were at Canastota NY Airport, I think starting in the early 60's. One of them crashed there when a VERY inexperienced pilot tried to take one for a ride. He survived but the airplane didn't. A guy from that area that later built a new airport was in the scrap metal business in Syracuse area. He cut up quite a few P51's
Canastota Airport closed many years ago.
 
P51/RV8

I have an RV 8 and did the test flying on the RV 7, but the discussion was comparing the P51. The bottom line is that the RV 8 is more responsive, and I think more challenging to fly neatly. The 51 is heavy to throw around, much less fun than the RV……Having said that, when you look over that long nose, and across the wings, one realises that you are flying a piece of history. It makes no sense to attempt to compare the two. The 51 was design to fly escort duty for very long distances. It couldn’t compare with a well flown Spitfire, ME 109 or
FW 190, but it wasn’t designed to be a short range defensive interceptor.
It was excellent for what it was designed for, an exceptional long range escort fighter.

Having said all that, none of the WW2 aircraft can compare with such aircraft as the Hawker Hunter which has superb controls and very superior handling. I am dating myself, but the Hunter remains my favourite aircraft……Oh yes, put the nose down and you slip through mach1 without noticing it. The other surprising sensation is the total silence in the cockpit. I have flown sailplanes where there was more wind noise.

Finally, having said all this, when you strap into a P51 and start the Merlin, regardless of the other amazing aircraft that you may have flown in the military, there is the sensation of flying a piece of history…… it would be well worth treating yourself to the experience……… of course if one wanted to take a trip over to England you could also take a trip in the Spitfire!

Regards, Brent
 
...someone from Van’s (might have been The Man himself, but I don’t want to actually put words in his mouth) said “The RV-8 flies like most people THINK a Mustang flies!” The implication was that there is actually quite a bit of difference...

That rings a bell. I've definitely heard Van say something similar, probably in one of his talks or in an interview like on an EAA webinar... Here is a screenshot from Sport Aviation, June 2012, page 33.

WalterMitty.png
 
You might be thinking of an old Kitplanes article. Chuck Berthe, another man and I were all asked to write about what we thought were the best handling airplanes. They both voted for RV-4. I owned an RV-4 at the time but after due consideration of the Pitts S-2 of some variety, voted for the Thunder Mustang. Why? Ailerons were responsive and light at all speeds.

I agree! The Thunder Mustang is the nicest-handling airplane I have ever flown.
 
RV8 - P51

Before The VAF site folks used the Yahoo Groups…. This story is from that forum.
It was written by a well known VAF member most of you will recognize..
I saw this a couple of years before my -8 was flying (it has been for 12 years)
Thought the post was worth saving.

——————————————————————————————————

I lucked out Saturday and had a dream come true, when I got to fly a shinny P51D for about forty minutes. Believe it or not, it shares several characteristics with the RV-8! The Doll and that Mustang stall exactly the same. There is a little shudder just before the stall, and then a crisp clean break with a slight drop of the right wing. The Mustang recovered like the Doll with just a slight release of the stick, and advance of the throttle. Loops and rolls were similar with familiar roll rates. The P-51's elevator is a little heavier but the ailerons were very similar to the RV-8. This Mustang had been modified with a tab that reduced the aileron control forces. Rolls do require rudder as the ailerons are not differential, and the big fighter will yaw the wrong way if rudder is not applied. OOPS! Flying low at 300 knots over the vast ranch country of north Texas was a
thrill. It didn't take much imagination to put yourself on a mission looking for targets of opportunity!We entered the pattern from a 360 overhead with a mid field break.Downwind is flown at 130 knots as the gear and flaps are lowered. The final turn was flown at about 120 knots. Wheel landings were much the same as in the Doll except you cross the fence between 100 and 110 knots were I use about 70 knots in the Doll. Touchdown and roll out were not that different except for the amount of runway used.Ok, there is a big difference doing a touch-n-go when the throttle is advanced! The Doll gives you a nice press back into the seat, but the Mustang really plants you!It was a thrill for me, and I will never forget it. I am very thankful to the owner of that beautiful fighter and the pilot, Frank Strickler, who allowed me so much stick time! The only payment he would accept was letting me buy him lunch. You gotta love it! The pilot community is the best this country has to offer!

My conclusion is that the RV-8 is truly a poor man's P-51! Keep smashing those rivets. Your are building your own littlefighter.
As I flew the Doll back home, I could swear that the Lycosorus under the checkerboard up there, sounded more like a Merlin.

Danny King
Beautiful Doll 80434
 
So maybe you'll sell me the T51 when you're done with the RV8? :D

How is it to get into and out of compared with the RV8? I had to sell my RV8 due to an back injury a couple of years ago and I'm looking for options but hadn't considered the T51.

It’s harder to get in and out of the Titan
 
I’m sure many in this in this knowledgeable group know Edgar Schmued, a native Austrian, was a key figure on the P51, A36 design team at North American. After the war his masterpiece was the T38/F5 at Northrop. I was fortunate to get 1200 hours in the T38 during my USAF time. What a beautifully balanced machine. If you flew that well…well you had graduated.
 
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I recognize that P-51

That particular P-51 (SN 474466) that Paul rode in was owned by Harry Barr and based in KLNK until his passing in July, 2020. When Harry would return to KLNK he would always request and be granted a low fly-by. I'd be working on the RV and when I heard him coming, I would always drop the tools and watch. Such an awesome plane.

"Barbara Jean" was Harry's wife. I sure miss him and the fly-by.

Doug
RV-7 Flying!!
 
I am very thankful to the owner of that beautiful fighter and the pilot, Frank Strickler, who allowed me so much stick time!

Did Frank give his "torque roll is a myth" demo? He used to fly a F-86 in and out of his grass runway. The stories he can tell!
 
While the P-51 is certainly iconic, and I'd love a ride in one, my experience is more recent. I spent 3 years as a USAF IP teaching in the T-38. THAT'S my ultimate ride. So, instead of the P-51 sliding bubble canopy on my -8, I did the fastback version which gets a bit more to the T-38 image. A taildragger -8 will always look far more like a P-51 than it could ever look like a -38, so I understand all the invasion stripes.

I figure that a T-38 paint scheme will stand out better on the ramp anyway. Regardless, anyone with an RV-8 is one lucky SOB. I hope to join that demographic next summer.

I had the chance to speak at length with the owner of a P-51 "Speedball Alice" and I told him, "Don't you EVER walk into the hanger and be complacent! Don't you EVER take it for granted!" Now, I'll say the same to all of you lucky -8 owners. Don't ever take it for granted. In all your dreams of the P-51's and Sea Fury's, and even T-38's above you, don't forget to look behind. There is a whole world of people to whom you and your achievement is beyond belief. You have all already made it to the mountaintop. Don't forget it. See you next summer. I'll be the one without invasion stripes.
 
... Now, I'll say the same to all of you lucky -8 owners. Don't ever take it for granted. In all your dreams of the P-51's and Sea Fury's, and even T-38's above you, don't forget to look behind. ... See you next summer. I'll be the one without invasion stripes.
I'm with you on this - it's just an amazing feeling to walk into the hanger, and say "that's my airplane!" I have to figuratively pinch myself - ok, sometimes I literally pinch myself.

And when flying over the beautiful countryside at 170kts TAS and whatever groundspeed the wind blesses me with, I'm so thankful and grateful that I have been able to build and fly my own aircraft.

Here's a recent 0730 in the morning flight, passing abeam the Mont Blanc at about 9.5, on my way to visit the Matterhorn, climbing to 14.5. I felt like I owned the sky, thanks to my RV-8.

IMG_7797.jpg
 
P-51 Torque

“Did Frank give his "torque roll is a myth" demo? He used to fly a F-86 in and out of his grass runway. The stories he can tell!”

The pilot in my ride mentioned the stories of torque and control difficulties. On takeoff he told me to follow him thru on the controls. He said the rudder would not move on opening the throttle slowly and he was right. Just a bit of right rudder after leaving the ground was all that was needed. Sadly, not log after, he watched a friend lose control of a P-51 and roll left and into a hangar during a go-around. There was a huge fire and the pilot died. So there is certainly a good chance of having serious trouble if you get too sudden with throttle inputs.
 
Harry Barr

From Harry Barr obituary's: Harry flew the P51 just over a month before he passed. Harry was one of the original founders of Duncan Aviation at Lincoln NE. I worked for another FBO in Lincoln for a year. Harry was a frequent visitor there.
Harry had an engine failure on takeoff in his original P51. That airplane was badly damages. He bought another P51 to fly while the original was being repaired. I don't know if the airplane Paul flew is the original or the second P51.
 
I'm with you on this - it's just an amazing feeling to walk into the hanger, and say "that's my airplane!" I have to figuratively pinch myself - ok, sometimes I literally pinch myself.

And when flying over the beautiful countryside at 170kts TAS and whatever groundspeed the wind blesses me with, I'm so thankful and grateful that I have been able to build and fly my own aircraft.

Here's a recent 0730 in the morning flight, passing abeam the Mont Blanc at about 9.5, on my way to visit the Matterhorn, climbing to 14.5. I felt like I owned the sky, thanks to my RV-8.

View attachment 32465
I too think every day that I'm a lucky man. For 22 years, my RV-8 has been sitting ready to fly in hangar. I've had all manners of pilots ride along and they all get out smiling.

I think your daily flight scenery has mine beat though, Mickey. But... my RV-8 will take me to very nice mountains in 3-4 hours!!
 

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That particular P-51 (SN 474466) that Paul rode in was owned by Harry Barr and based in KLNK until his passing in July, 2020. When Harry would return to KLNK he would always request and be granted a low fly-by. I'd be working on the RV and when I heard him coming, I would always drop the tools and watch. Such an awesome plane.

"Barbara Jean" was Harry's wife. I sure miss him and the fly-by.

Doug
RV-7 Flying!!

Checking a photo I took of the AWC, that is indeed the airplane!
 
On occasion from my office window I would watch this P-51 fly down the runway with Harry Barr at the controls. He owned it for many years and often gave rides and would do fly by's for flying events around the midwest. Heck of a nice guy who left us to soon.
 

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Fillled rivets and CF tips. Sick mustang:) last week at chino during an ONT layover

Lunch at Flo’s. Happy to have eavesdropped on Steve Hinton as he called his buddy……
 

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I saw the SW51 at Reno and was intrigued. The backseat looked a little roomier than the RV-8, as it has its own panel. Performance specs at face value look to be just a little less than the -8, but on less fuel as well.

If they can get the airplane on its feet with good support (and the price down) it could be a competitor for the -8! I’d consider swapping.

Very interested to read Paul’s write up when the magazine comes out!
 
Getting caught up after a lot of flying (Erie PA and back; rides; etc.) and this was a fun thread to find. In the past I'd heard P-51 pilots say that if you can handle an RV-8, you could probably handle a P-51. That's not exactly the same as saying they feel the same. But I've always told people I built the -8 because I'm a warbird guy that can't afford a P-51, so I built my own. Although I've ridden in three different Mustangs (Ho! Hun/Bill Hane; Mangia Pane/Bill "Tiger" Destefani; Man O War/Elmer Ward) I don't have any stick time yet; if I ever sell my plane, some of that money will go with me down to Stallion 51, for sure. I expected that my -8 would have much lighter controls; the pitch and trim are the most light and sensitive of any airplane I've ever flown. I continue to refine my touch because it's so easy to gain or lose 100 feet without feeling it. But yeah, I'll confess that the Walter Mitty thing was a factor in why I chose this airplane, and why I chose my paint scheme. Some call it "clown paint"; some also mock pilots who wear flight suits or coveralls. Don't care. I dress for my own comfort and I knew how I wanted my airplane to look, feel and fly. I don't consider myself a great pilot but the RV-8 continues to teach me how to be a better one, and we're getting along pretty well. Looking forward to getting some Mustang stick time someday, but for now I'm doing my best to enjoy the fruits of my labor. It's been interesting to learn how much labor is still needed after airworthiness, but it is probably 1/500th of the labor (and expense) a P-51 would require. Those are pretty good selling points.
 
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I saw the SW51 at Reno and was intrigued. The backseat looked a little roomier than the RV-8, as it has its own panel. Performance specs at face value look to be just a little less than the -8, but on less fuel as well.

If they can get the airplane on its feet with good support (and the price down) it could be a competitor for the -8! I’d consider swapping.

Very interested to read Paul’s write up when the magazine comes out!

I agree. I have been following the SW-51 since it was first mentioned in the aviation media. I have been on the look out for an RV 8 for the last couple of months and keep looking back at the SW51. But after crunching the numbers, I could have a lot of 'gas' money going with the RV8. I'm thinking the SW51 will be close to $300K finished, whereas a guy can have a pretty nice RV8 for about half that cost.

All my flying up until now has been spam cand or tube and fabric bush/floatplane types. Kids grown and moved all over the country so its time for something with speed.
 
SW-51

I like the SW-51. I like the Rotax 915is. Neat airplane, neat engine, I'm sure good performance.

But - if I'm flying a -51 type airplane, I mentally can't get over the need to have some sort of throaty strait-pipe grunt out the sides of the cowling (that won't come from a Rotax).
 
I like the SW-51. I like the Rotax 915is. Neat airplane, neat engine, I'm sure good performance.

But - if I'm flying a -51 type airplane, I mentally can't get over the need to have some sort of throaty strait-pipe grunt out the sides of the cowling (that won't come from a Rotax).

There's also the Tucáno Legend but what the RV8 has over all of these is that it's proven not to kill you. These newer planes haven't been landed 20,000 times so we don't know what spar crack or aileron hinge or whatever is going to break on it that could cost a life or at a minimum lots of money to repair. The RV8 already has had all the bugs exterminated on it.
 
I like the SW-51. I like the Rotax 915is. Neat airplane, neat engine, I'm sure good performance.

But - if I'm flying a -51 type airplane, I mentally can't get over the need to have some sort of throaty strait-pipe grunt out the sides of the cowling (that won't come from a Rotax).

To be fair, they have done some sort of exhaust trickery and it sounds pretty good. Admittedly it’s not a Merlin, but it’s not bad.
 
I like the SW-51. I like the Rotax 915is. Neat airplane, neat engine, I'm sure good performance.

But - if I'm flying a -51 type airplane, I mentally can't get over the need to have some sort of throaty strait-pipe grunt out the sides of the cowling (that won't come from a Rotax).

That is what is so cool about the Thunder Mustang by the way. The Falonner V-12 in it has separate pipes and sounds pretty much like a higher-pitched Merlin. The Thunder Mustang is also an absolute delight to fly. It is frustrating there have been so many mishaps with them. No common thread among the problems, just seems like higher-than-average issues with FWF.

I would also say that if you are going to fly a P-51 replica, wouldn't you like it to go FAST? Going RV-8 speeds in a fighter replica just seems to me to be, like, what is the point? A "stock" Thunder Mustang will go 315 mph or so.
 
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I'm thinking the SW51 will be close to $300K finished.

That is what is so cool about the Thunder Mustang by the way. The Falonner V-12 in it has separate pipes and sounds pretty much like a higher-pitched Merlin. The Thunder Mustang is also an absolute delight to fly. It is frustrating there have been so many mishaps with them. No common thread among the problems, just seems like higher-than-average issues with FWF.

I would also say that if you are going to fly a P-51 replica, wouldn't you like it to go FAST? Going RV-8 speeds in a fighter replica just seems to me to be, like, what is the point? A "stock" Thunder Mustang will go 315 mph or so.



For that much, you can get the Thunder Mustang kit----and that includes engine. https://www.thundermustang.com/kits-for-sale/
 
That is what is so cool about the Thunder Mustang by the way. The Falonner V-12 in it has separate pipes and sounds pretty much like a higher-pitched Merlin. The Thunder Mustang is also an absolute delight to fly. It is frustrating there have been so many mishaps with them. No common thread among the problems, just seems like higher-than-average issues with FWF.

I would also say that if you are going to fly a P-51 replica, wouldn't you like it to go FAST? Going RV-8 speeds in a fighter replica just seems to me to be, like, what is the point? A "stock" Thunder Mustang will go 315 mph or so.

The Thunder Mustang just exceeds my risk threshold. An aircraft with performance like that (and, honestly, as awful a safety record) is approaching the point where I want a rocket chair…

RV-8 performance, and a slightly roomier cockpit, and less fuel burn? What’s not to love, ignoring for a second that it looks like a Mustang.
 
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