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Less intense formation clinics?

Buggsy2

Well Known Member
Do they have formation clinics that are less intense? For training pilots who might want to fly somewhere with a couple of buddies in a looser formation. These clinics sound fun and demanding, but for instance I intend to install a vernier throttle and these clinics don't permit that (I think). Basically just looking to get trained in safe but informal formation flying.
 
Do they have formation clinics that are less intense? For training pilots who might want to fly somewhere with a couple of buddies in a looser formation. These clinics sound fun and demanding, but for instance I intend to install a vernier throttle and these clinics don't permit that (I think). Basically just looking to get trained in safe but informal formation flying.

Formation flying is not for everyone.

Correct vernier throttles are NOT allowed. There is no such thing as formation that is not intense.

All formation flying is serious and intense just like IFR. Formation flying is like IFR in that everything done is done for a reason. A lot of items are standardized and everyone does it the same way for the same reason. Safety. If must be done correctly else the safety goes away.

Formation flying is just like IFR. You are either in all the way or else you are out.
 
Do they have formation clinics that are less intense? For training pilots who might want to fly somewhere with a couple of buddies in a looser formation. These clinics sound fun and demanding, but for instance I intend to install a vernier throttle and these clinics don't permit that (I think). Basically just looking to get trained in safe but informal formation flying.

Yes and no. We just had a formation clinic in Kansas City last weekend. Limited to 2-ship formations and basic maneuvers. I took a guy who had never flown formation before and in a weekend he's able to takeoff and land on the wing plus fly route...enough to participate in Bonanza's to Oshkosh http://www.b2osh.org. Sure, not an RV, and we didn't do many maneuvers, but sounds a lot like what you'd be interested in. I also know of a person who will provide one on one formation training.

I say formation is akin to aerobatics...sure you can teach yourself, but it's a lot safer to have someone show you at least the basics first.

-Jim

P.S. Intense is a rather subjective adjective with a wide range of values. One can fly formation with heightened senses, but not be intense. At least IMHO.
 
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There is no such thing as formation that is not intense. All formation flying is serious and intense just like IFR.
I hear you but offer these thoughts, not to argue, just another point of view.

Like many pilots I've done informal (untrained) "formation" flying with other untrained pilots. 3 of us at most, straight and level for the most part. Or if just 2 of us, maybe "formation" takeoff, climb, and cruise. Loose formation to be sure. Not really safe to be sure. Not really intense as I imagine the closer and larger flights are, but not relaxed either.

Though I've done this I don't like it because it IS untrained, and just stupid. I'd like to do it properly, with some training, with others who are trained. But I'm not interested in the closer and larger formation flying.

Comparing to IFR is interesting. I don't have the IFR training either. Indeed as practiced now IFR training and certification is all or none. But is that necessary? What about a "relaxed" IFR certificate to accommodate the glass panels and their view-ahead displays? Only for private (non-commercial) use. Only 1 passenger...or none perhaps. Only departures. Or if arrivals are allowed, minimum ceiling allowed is 1000 or 1500 feet AGL. This sort of IFR-lite would be useful in California, where there is often a stratus layer on the coast.

The point being that formation flying, like IFR flying, could be done in more- and less-demanding regimes....kinda like the private pilot vs. the commercial pilot vs. the ATP pilot standards.

Yes and no. We just had a formation clinic in Kansas City last weekend. Limited to 2-ship formations and basic maneuvers. I took a guy who had never flown formation before and in a weekend he's able to takeoff and land on the wing plus fly route...enough to participate in Bonanza's to Oshkosh http://www.b2osh.org. Sure, not an RV, and we didn't do many maneuvers, but sounds a lot like what you'd be interested in. I also know of a person who will provide one on one formation training.
Seems just what I'm interested in. Where can I get more info?
 
"Relaxed IFR"??? No such thing. No matter how relaxed you want to be you are still sharing the airspace with others.
 
Why dummy down things that are inherently dangerous?

I took one of the West Coast RV Formation Clinics several years ago and it was one of the most useful things I ever did. But, I wasn't attracted to formation flying and haven't pursued group formation flying. I'm not fully "in". However, the disciplined training was fantastic and gave me the tools to confidently do two-ship and photo shots. It opened up many opportunities for me (e.g., professional air-to-air photo missions, escorting the RV-1). I wouldn't do some of the activities you mentioned without that disciplined training. I don't do at least one of them even with training.

I also went through the full IFR training, mostly for So Cal marine layer and similiar light uses. I wouldn't have it any other way. When something goes wrong, I want to be over-trained, not squeaking by.

I would like to think that I'm not sharing the skies with people who want to get by with the minimum training and competence.
 
I understand what you are asking but here is my take on anything regarding flying and flight training. If you only train to mediocrity then you'll never be more than mediocre and that is not place to be when in formation. Train to perfection and you may not be perfect, none of us are, but at least you'll be safe and have an understanding. Standardization is everything when flying in close proximity to another aircraft. Your life depends on it.

It is certainly acceptable to train in a two ship, four ship being better. No one will force you to do anything you are uncomfortable with at a clinic especially the mass formation. This way you can learn and practice the basics then do with them later as you feel comfortable with.

As said by others, you are either "in" or you are "out".
 
Why not go?

Why not go to a clinic anyway ? The ground school portion is where you will pick up the overall picture of what is in store - do your homework and read the material prior to day one. As a complete newbie, you will be flying in an experienced safety pilots ride for the first flight. Nothing is stopping you from taking 3 or even 4 rides in the right/back seat of someone that's got a lot of experience. You will learn a lot. You might even learn this is something that you'd really like to do - I dare you not to get hooked.
 
I agree that you are either In, or Out.
The most dangerous formation flying in my opinion is the loose formation, the type that is often done casually. I feel much safer in a tight disciplined formation.
The main reason loose, or enroute, formations are so dangerous are the high closure rates that can occur when distracted. It is easy to get distracted when enroute and it does not take a lot of angle to start closing rapidly on other aircraft near you.
The FFI standard for enroute formation is 4-8 ship width spacing, which is not very far, which is good. This is treated as a position and must be maintained as such. The farther you are out enroute, the higher the closure rate will be if you start to drift towards another aircraft.
 
Buggsy,

I do think I understand where you're coming from. I sense you feel you may want to fly formation, and would want to do it safely and correctly, but may not want to pursue it to the degree us formation addicts do.

I admire your desire to seek training to do it right. Some really smart formation guys have chimed in here, and they have good advice. Though formation flying is not something to approach casually, it can be taught in a more informal environment than a clinic. Informal does not mean casual though, and the same attitude and willingness to learn must be brought to the briefing room and the flight. Their is an inherent intensity required to safely fly formation, but a good instructor can tailor training to your needs, teach you how to do it well, and help you develop the skills and mindset to fly formation safely...and they are skills that apply equally to air shows and $100 burger runs with the buds. You may not be as tight, and you may not maneuver aggressively, but formation is formation, and should be always approached with the same attitude. It's also a skill that deteriorates, and needs to be practiced to stay safe doing it.

Since you are in California, many of the West Coast Raven pilots and participants in the recent clinic are near you, and if you are interested in training outside the clinic, please do contact us. We did have an RV-9 at the 2012 clinic, and he had a great time in his demo flight and some 2-ship training.

The vernier throttle will keep you out of the clinic, and will be a challenge to overcome in your formation flying. I know the Bo guys have them, but they also have freakishly strong and hypertrophied thumbs (I'm kidding...but it's a pain for sure!). So you might want to consider all sides of that decision.

Give us a holler if you want to do some training. We're all about doing this safely (and as with IFR, one goal is to achieve a level of relaxation...relaxed intensity, focus and concentration...it can be done...and is fun!)

Cheers,
Bob
 
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Standardization...

One of the primary objectives in formation training is 'standardization'. Once you have a grasp on the standards, then you can at least approach it from that perspective. The standards cover almost all of the parameters of a formation flight (i.e. airspeeds, altitudes, freq, wingman positions, signals, what to do and when, etc) If everyone flies to the same standards, then we all know what each other is expected to do in the formation.

If we need to deviate for any reason from those standards, that is discussed in the 'Brief'. Briefing is mandatory. The Brief is where the flight 'instuctions' are laid out and any other anomolous items are discussed and questions answered. (i.e who, what, when, where, and why)

Because all of the pilots in the formation now know what the standards and briefed expectations are, the flight can be expected to be very predictable. That makes it much safer, and that is the key to safe formation flying (stick and rudder skills aside)...

For more information consult the T-34 Manual and the FFI Supplement...
 
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No Shortcuts

Comparing to IFR is interesting. I don't have the IFR training either. Indeed as practiced now IFR training and certification is all or none. But is that necessary? What about a "relaxed" IFR certificate to accommodate the glass panels and their view-ahead displays? Only for private (non-commercial) use. Only 1 passenger...or none perhaps. Only departures. Or if arrivals are allowed, minimum ceiling allowed is 1000 or 1500 feet AGL. This sort of IFR-lite would be useful in California, where there is often a stratus layer on the coast.

Not only are there others in the system when you're IMC, but you REALLY need to be able to handle situations like loss of electrical, loss of COMM, loss of primary flight display, etc. -and you need to be able to do it calmly and precisely. "Relaxed IFR"? sure, but only after a good deal of quality training, meaningful practice, and actual experience. What's the expression? "Anyone can steer a ship in a calm sea".
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
When something goes wrong, I want to be over-trained, not squeaking by.

I would like to think that I'm not sharing the skies with people who want to get by with the minimum training and competence.

You don't have to go to an FFI sanctioned, RV specific 79 ship formation training clinic to be well trained - suggesting any other training venue as "dumming it down" is near sighted.

Find a couple of experienced formation pilots who are willing to spend some time with you and that is all you need.

It isn't rocket science. You don't have to do it the way the FFI or T-34 manual dictates either. As long as you determine the standards of your flight, brief and adhere to your brief you can fly safe formation.
 
Dum...dum, dum, dum

You don't have to go to an FFI sanctioned, RV specific 79 ship formation training clinic to be well trained - suggesting any other training venue as "dumming it down" is near sighted.

Excuse me but where did I advocate only FFI-sanctioned or 79-ship training clinics are the way to go? I didn't. I advocated disciplined training. The clinic isn't the critical part, it's the standardized and discipline element that I believe is needed. I don't want to fly with folks who learned through roll-your-own-cause-it-gives-me-more-flexibility training.

HOWEVER......Joe Blank makes a good point for why working with FFI, RV-experienced folks is a really good idea, at least if you're in the U.S.
 
A common thread in the last few replies is something like formation or instrument flying is dangerous enough to demand the highest level of training. I don't agree.

Most anything we do in life can be done with different levels of training. Human flight itself is inherently dangerous, yet we do not demand military or airline training and equipment from every pilot. Instead, we have the Recreational pilot, the Light Sport pilot, the Private pilot, the Commercial pilot, and the Airline Transport Pilot.

So we are indeed literally "sharing the skies with people who want to get by with the minimum training and competence". Those people are recreational or light sport or private pilots. And statistically those people and equipment are more dangerous than, say, airline flying. Yet that doesn't stop us from flying and enjoying our GA aircraft. Likewise not having a commercial driving license doesn't stop billions of people worldwide from "sharing" the road with others equally (or not) trained.

Others in their replies have equated less training to mediocrity. But those are two quite different things. Less training is simply training to an appropriate level for the activity anticipated; mediocrity is being barely able, or unable, to perform the activity in spite of being trained for it.

So I am asking or proposing that some types of instrument and formation flight could be done for an anticipated activity that is less than currently demanded, especially with some changes in equipment in the case of instrument flying. For the latter activity, since it is regulated by the FAA, I don't anticipate any change in training and standards in my flying lifetime. But since formation flying is unregulated, it is possible to practice it at different levels of danger and skill.
 
Not only are there others in the system when you're IMC, but you REALLY need to be able to handle situations like loss of electrical, loss of COMM, loss of primary flight display, etc. -and you need to be able to do it calmly and precisely.
From what I see even highly trained pilots do badly when instruments fail. Remember the pilot a few years ago, a highly trained IFR instructor, who crashed and burned in a residential area when departing from (I think) Teterboro when one or more of his instruments failed. What about the airliner some years ago over Colombia when one artificial horizon failed and they tried to follow it to an inflight breakup. What about the Air France flight more recently which crashed into the Atlantic Ocean because of instrument failure.

I think that having a glass-panel display of the horizon, with independent backup instruments (not necessarily round dials) with training to handle departures through a stratus layer, and to handle certain failures, would be just as safe if not safer than traditional instrument flying. I'm proposing not hours of IFR through weather, but a few minutes through relatively benign clouds with ceilings at least 1000 ft AGL. Useful, safe, and unlikely to occur because of hidebound attitudes.
 
Excuse me but where did I advocate only FFI-sanctioned or 79-ship training clinics are the way to go? I didn't. I advocated disciplined training. The clinic isn't the critical part, it's the standardized and discipline element that I believe is needed. I don't want to fly with folks who learned through roll-your-own-cause-it-gives-me-more-flexibility training.

HOWEVER......Joe Blank makes a good point for why working with FFI, RV-experienced folks is a really good idea, at least if you're in the U.S.

Again a slam on other venues of training...

there are plenty of folks providing and receiving high quality training through roll-your-own programs which are disciplined and standardized within their flight to as much standardization as is needed to be safe.

The RV and FFI forums are certainly great places to receive training but are not necessary. Not one of the 20 or so guys I fly formation with regularly ever attended an FFI or RV clinic yet we somehow manage to fly professional, safe and fun formation. Go figure... guess Louise wouldn't want to fly with us...
 
Thanks Bob Mills. I think you are the only one to answer the original question. I've seen one of the so-called expert formation guys. Good at formation flying? I'm sure he is. Safe pilot? Not from what I've seen.
Mark
 
there are plenty of folks providing and receiving high quality training through roll-your-own programs which are disciplined and standardized within their flight to as much standardization as is needed to be safe.

I am curious to know what those standards are. The FFI standards, which are modeled closely after the T-34 manual, and as I understand the Bonanza program, are FAA approved programs. It is comforting to me to know that I can go anywhere in the country and fly to the same standards with anyone that is qualified or has been trained in that environment.
No disrespect to you or your 20 or so fellow formation buddies, but I don't know, what I don't know....
So, sure, you can roll you own and as long as everybody gets it, and the standards are safe, I am sure you could conduct a safe formation environment.
I think it makes more sense to follow an established FAA approved program, like FFI but but who know's, maybe your program is better...
 
So we are indeed literally "sharing the skies with people who want to get by with the minimum training and competence".


I think you hit the nail on the head. The FAA regulations are the minimum standards that we must fly and maintain are aircraft to.

I for one attempt to do all my flying and maintenance to a higher level than what is required by regulation. That goes for IFR and Formation flying.

The pilots with F.A.S.T. and FFI cards are what the FAA recognize for flight in wavered airspace. Both organizations use the same standardized signals. Neither are needed by regulations to fly outside wavered airspace.

Finding someone that has the time and money to pay for their own fuel outside a clinic is the challenge that anyone that wants to learn formation is going to have. A fair amount of time is needed to learn and practice to get proficient enough to fly solo in formation.

I encourage you to adopt the Standards for formation that already are in place by F.A.S.T. and FFI.
 
I've flown with a a few guys who "liked" and "flew" formation, but didn't come close to our standards. The lack of discipline caused a few situations I was uncomfortable with, like guys losing sight of each other, dropping so far back lead couldn't see them, brief one thing but doing something completely different in the flight...I could go on. The standards are in place for everyone's safety, and to be as safe as possible, you have to set the bar high and fly to that level.
 
I am curious to know what those standards are. The FFI standards, which are modeled closely after the T-34 manual, and as I understand the Bonanza program, are FAA approved programs.

Here's how I understand it: the FAA recognizes the cards issued by FFI or FAST as the prerequisite for formation flight in FAA wavered airspace. From what I can tell, FFI is mostly RV specific with a few exceptions; whereas FAST stemmed from the war bird community and now is very broadly inclusive having 19 signatories (see the end for a list). There is no formal "Bonanza program" that is FAA approved that I know of. If you are referring to the required self-imposed standards as part of Bonanza's to Oshkosh (B2OSH), then the FAA really has no part in it since that formation is not operating in FAA wavered airspace. Rather, that group has developed a minimum standards and required experience based on their mission...which is to safely fly from Rockford to Oshkosh. Also note, that the T-34 Association, which publishes the T-34 manual you reference, is a signatory to FAST.

I'll point out that both FFI and FAST have formation guides/manuals/documents: (1) FFI's Formation Standards and Proficiency Program and (2) FAST's 'The Formation Pilots Knowledge Guide' Please take a look at them both to see which you prefer. I'll tell you that I'm biased toward FAST because I believe that the idea of having an overarching set of standards with aircraft specific supplements is the way to go, and that's how their organization/documents are built.

Anyway, just more food for thought.

Fly safe!

-Jim

P.S. Here are the 19 FAST signatories: http://www.flyfast.org/content/fast-signatories Airpower West; Canadian Harvard Aircraft Association; Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum; Classic Jet Aircraft Association; Commemorative Air Force/TRARON; EAA Warbirds of America; Fighter Formation Qualification Group; Joint Liaison Formation Committee; New Zealand Warbird Association; North American Trainer Association; Red Star Pilots Association; Sport Class Air Racing Association; Stearman Flight; Swift Formation Committee; T-34 Association; Valiant Air Command.
 
Here's how I understand it: the FAA recognizes the cards issued by FFI or FAST as the prerequisite for formation flight in FAA wavered airspace. From what I can tell, FFI is mostly RV specific with a few exceptions; whereas FAST stemmed from the war bird community and now is very broadly inclusive having 19 signatories (see the end for a list). There is no formal "Bonanza program" that is FAA approved that I know of. If you are referring to the required self-imposed standards as part of Bonanza's to Oshkosh (B2OSH), then the FAA really has no part in it since that formation is not operating in FAA wavered airspace. Rather, that group has developed a minimum standards and required experience based on their mission...which is to safely fly from Rockford to Oshkosh. Also note, that the T-34 Association, which publishes the T-34 manual you reference, is a signatory to FAST.

I'll point out that both FFI and FAST have formation guides/manuals/documents: (1) FFI's Formation Standards and Proficiency Program and (2) FAST's 'The Formation Pilots Knowledge Guide' Please take a look at them both to see which you prefer. I'll tell you that I'm biased toward FAST because I believe that the idea of having an overarching set of standards with aircraft specific supplements is the way to go, and that's how their organization/documents are built.

Anyway, just more food for thought.

Fly safe!

-Jim

P.S. Here are the 19 FAST signatories: http://www.flyfast.org/content/fast-signatories Airpower West; Canadian Harvard Aircraft Association; Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum; Classic Jet Aircraft Association; Commemorative Air Force/TRARON; EAA Warbirds of America; Fighter Formation Qualification Group; Joint Liaison Formation Committee; New Zealand Warbird Association; North American Trainer Association; Red Star Pilots Association; Sport Class Air Racing Association; Stearman Flight; Swift Formation Committee; T-34 Association; Valiant Air Command.

Jim:

Summary would be FAST is Warbards and FFI is everything else. Each of the groups that you list had their own program at one time. I had my initial formation training with Joint Liaison Formation Committee back in 1998. The late 90's is when the FAA required a recognized credentials and that is when everything that we have now started to come together.

FFI also has Bonanzas and Grumman aircraft in addition to RVs that fly formation with FFI cards. I know that the Bonanzas have their own flight supplement but do not know a lot about the Grumman guys. I am not aware about any FAST supplement for RVs.

I know three (3) RV guys that have FAST cards but the Warbirds for the most part want nothing to do with RVs from my experience. (or at least they want nothing to do with me) I have flown with two (2) RV guys that have FAST cards and both will adjust to the FFI RV Supplement when we fly together. The FFI RV Supplement is the standard that all the RV formation pilots that I have experience with are flying in Air Shows have adopted.
 
Summary would be FAST is Warbards and FFI is everything else.
Except for the Swift Formation Committee, which has been the only way for Canadian RV pilots to get their ticket in Canada. There are half a dozen of us in the Pacific Northwest who are FAST qualified through SFC.

Getting back to the original post though...

I started formation in a "barely trained" manner. Our flying club put on a flypast each year on Remembrance Day that flew over the cenotaphs in our area. The formation was a mixed bag of aircraft that all flew at about 100mph, and originally the pilots were partially ex-military types if not ex-military pilots. Our briefings were pretty sparse, mostly consisting of what to do to stay in position, and what to do if it all goes sideways (basically, exit away from everyone else).

I started flying with RV owners before I stopped flying with that group, because some of the local RV pilots wanted to learn formation. We had a former RCAF instructor in our group, so he taught me and a couple of other people the same things he taught his students, using the slower airplanes we had access to at the time. That's when we learned about safety briefings, more significant emergency plans, and hand signals. And we learned to fly closer, and that flying closer was actually easier... In the slower flights, we typically flew 3-4 wingspans apart. After I bought my RV, I stopped flying with the slower group, and started flying with the RV's. Then we hooked up with the local Swift group, and started getting our FAST tickets.

I understand now why the formal training is important. Not because I want to fly formation with all my friends every time i'm up, but when I do happen to be on a flight when formation might happen, I have a skillset that I can draw on and an understanding of the same basic skill level in my fellow pilots.

For example: If a group of us were flying somewhere and had to pass through busy airspace, it would be both fun and a lot easier on ATC if we just formed up and came through as a formation with a single callsign and transponder blip. With the FAST trained group I fly with, we could easily set that up quickly on-air, and then handle it with hand-signals. We all know what the other pilots know, and trust them to fly safely with us.

As for the vernier throttle, I think the original poster said that he was "planning on installing" the vernier. In case he doesn't know about it, there is a company that makes a push-pull vernier. It acts as a vernier if you twist it, but if you push or pull on the knob, it moves freely as well. There isn't a button release on the end like most verniers. I don't have a link handy but I think if you search for push-pull vernier here on VAF you'll find a thread or two that mention it.

I don't know what other formation courses are like, but I have to say that the one i've been to twice has been very laid back, and low pressure. The flying was challenging, but not difficult. It's just another skill to be learned, and if you can make nice landings in your RV most of the time you've probably got the fine motor skills to fly formation too.

Give it a try, you'll probably have a lot of fun!
 
I know three (3) RV guys that have FAST cards but the Warbirds for the most part want nothing to do with RVs from my experience. (or at least they want nothing to do with me) I have flown with two (2) RV guys that have FAST cards and both will adjust to the FFI RV Supplement when we fly together.

Just as a counter viewpoint, I found FFI didn't want anything to do with me (as a Bonanza guy) and that FAST was easy to work with. For example, I never could find a listing of FFI check-pilots? With FAST, I click here: http://www.flyfast.org/check_pilots. In the end, both FFI and FAST get you to the same place and it's up to lead to brief the standards, either in written or verbal form.

FWIW, I believe the Mooney Caravan folks are working with FAST...so maybe times are-a-changin' wrt to the warbirds only history.

Fly safe,

-Jim
 
FFI also has Bonanzas and Grumman aircraft in addition to RVs that fly formation with FFI cards. I know that the Bonanzas have their own flight supplement but do not know a lot about the Grumman guys. I am not aware about any FAST supplement for RVs.

What's interesting is the Bonanza supplement you referenced is a supplement to the T-34 manual, and the T-34 association is a signatory to FAST not FFI.

As far as I can tell, FFI has standards, but does not have a formation manual/guide. Whereas the FAST Formation Guide is very comprehensive and IMHO the T-34 manual, while an quick read, has a lot to be desired.

-Jim
 
HERE is the latest edition of the FFI RV Formation Guidelines and Standard Procedures. This document is now used for all FFI training programs. The T-34 Formation Manual is no longer used by FFI. I see nothing wrong with pilots learning formation flying without attending a clinic but suggest they refer to the FFI manual so they learn the standards in use by the vast majority of RV formation pilots. Regarding "informal" formation training... This is serious business and deserves intensive training and practice in order to do it safely. If you cannot devote that amount of effort to it, I suggest you not participate. For those willing to devote the time to do it right, I think you will be rewarded with the knowledge required to formate safely and will take great pride in the skills you will develope. Being "in" and rock solid is the goal. Anything less is just a gaggle.
 
Thanks for posting that Smokey! Its a great product, and the result of a huge amount of work on Jim "Gringo" Gray's part (VAF's N747JG).

For the FAST/FFI discussion (and I purposefully didn't say FAST vs FFI ;)), as a card holder in both organizations, I'd say there are far more similarities than differences. I'm presenting the FAST ground school to the Sport Class Racing pilots (my connection to FAST) at the Pylon Racing Seminar in June, and having just completed our WCFC, I'd say the similarities run throughout the programs. Makes sense, since FFI was built on the same foundation as FAST.

FAST has many signatories (as has been mentioned), and they all originally adopted the T-34 Manual as the standard as they merged their standardization efforts. The 4-part FAST Formation Guideline was developed from that and other documents.

FFI also adopted the T-34 Manual as the standard, to support and continue standardization among formation flying community members. An RV Supplement to the T-34 Manual was developed for use by the RV community. The documant that Smokey posted now combines all the above, and is a great formation SOP, IMHO. As Smokey said, anyone wanting to fly their RV's in formation safely and well would benefit greatly from that SOP.

Mandatory? No (unless you want to fly in one of our clinics, or earn an FFI card).

A heckuva great resource? You-betcha!

We beat this drum becaue its all about safety, trust and predictability.

I know guys like Ken (a military test pilot with formal formation training) and his buds fly formation to very high standards, as do many other RV pilots. For guys like "Buggsy2" Bob (the OP), with no formal form training, groups like the Ravens and many others around the country offer a great way to train to high standards, even if an FFI card is not sought. We don't teach "formation light", but there are levels and a progression, so its not just getting tossed in the pool...better to learn "formation right", one step at a time...whether that be to FFI standards, FAST standards, or other professional standards (being triple redundant there! ;))

I've been thinking about the "less intense clinic" concept, and though we had 50+ pilots and planes, and the formation flying is focused and intensive, we still have a great time and build a lot of camraderie. It's not an overly formal event, but there is a ground school, and when it comes to brief time, its time to go to work and get your game on. Our mission is to make the training safe, valuable and fun. Ask some of the Rookies that came this year...I think you'll find some pretty happy folks among that group!

So don"t be intimidated by the clinic environment at all. They are a blast, and if they weren't so much dog-gone work to organize we'd do more of them! But as I mentioned earlier, we train all year round, and welcome others to train with us. We often organize trainng hops to introduce new pilots that want to learn formation. The environment may be a bit different, but the training will essentially be the same. Both are actually great (and fun) ways to go.

I also think that once you try it, you'll realize why we say learn it well or don't do it, and you'll want to do it right (Smokey's in and rock-solid), no matter how far you pursue it. Word of caution though...before you dip your toe into the pool, ye be warned...its pretty addictive stuff! :)

Cheers,
Bob
 
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