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New RV Builder

flyingRV

Member
Hi,

I'd like to introduce myself here as a new RV7 builder.

After dreaming for a couple of years, reading and getting help in the decision process at VAF (already a big THANK YOU), visiting OSH, studying preview plans I ordered my empennage in January this year. The kit suddenly showed up in July and after preparing my workshop (garage) I just startet the horizontal stab a couple of days ago.
I'm pretty excited and it's fun to get the first parts together.
I guess I will have a lot of questions in the next years although most of them are answered her already. One thing I couldn't' find is the following.

I don't know the exact process in the US but here in Germany the build has to be supervised from time to time by an A&I to document the build process and getting the paperwork right.
My A&I was looking for some kind of documentation about the material of the parts. I know there is a parts index (Manual chapter 4) where you can check if it's Alclad or not but others are not described in detail. For example for HS710 only the dimensions are given. On the parts itself there is only the part number, no way to be sure the parts are made from the right material.
My A&I asked me if there is any statement from VANS stating that the parts are right (some kind of statement of compliance/conformaty).
I didn't find anything in my kit.

How do you make sure that the parts are made from the correct material?

Thanks for your help.

Simon
 
Van’s isn’t buying material from the local home improvement store. Sounds like you are looking for Van’s to supply a certificate of origin for each part. That’s not going to happen. I would find a new A&I
 
I realize you must work with the regulations present in Germany which seem very restrictive to us in the wild, wild, west. :)

However, in regard to the materials.....how do you define "right material"? There is no type certificate that Vans must follow in selecting materials for the components, only good construction practice. I'm interested in knowing what standard your inspector is expecting Vans to meet in order to comply with your local regulations. Even if the inspector wants to verify materials are the same as stated in the plans Vans is under no regulatory obligation to design or manufacture their product to any standard. This is a case where we must accept the superb reputation and extensive field history of the manufacturer to produce satisfactory components.

Best wishes for an enjoyable build and I hope the regulatory hurtles can be jumped!
 
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Part origin....

My A&I asked me if there is any statement from VANS stating that the parts are right (some kind of statement of compliance/conformaty).
I didn't find anything in my kit.

How do you make sure that the parts are made from the correct material?

First: welcome to the best way of getting airborn!

Hmmmmm! Your problem is a new one on me! I can sort of understand his concern as there are probably some aircraft he has seen that may have hardware store components. Is your A&I familiar with Experimental aircraft? If not, you might search for one that is. Are there rules in Germany that require this documentation? If not, he might be asserting his authority without merit.

Van's has 11,133 aircraft that have been BUILT and are FLYING! They have the best reputation in the Experimental aircraft sector of aviation. That MIGHT show the parts are coming from the "right place". :)

You might contact the Mother Ship (Van's Aircraft) and they might be able to supply you with the necessary information if you need it after finding a new A&I. You might also contact builders in Germany and see if they had to deal with this as well. Not sure how many are flying there but I know quite a few are. All built out of the "right materials"! There are some builders/pilots who are on this forum so they might speak up. You might start a topic: "Builders in Germany....."

Viel Gluck!
 
Simon,

i went through the process in germany for my 7 just recently. i don't recall that somebody ever was asking for that kind of a statement.

but to be sure just call Mr. Alex Krenik (LBA - Referat T3 0531 2355 5324). probably he will be the guy from the government responsible for your project (as i understood he's doing all the RV's). he is very helpful and experienced and will tell you if such statement is really necessary.

btw... join our german whatsappgroup!

Kay
 
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Parts

Simon
I work with Van on a regular basis and often talk materials
The sheet metal, components and fasteners are standard aircraft materials
Note the AN or MS parts designation on hardware.

You might also ask the skeptical A/I to view some of the videos they have done on the drop tests etc

I have more faith in Vans engineering than most GA manufacturers.

The biggest variable is in the quality of the construction, deburring, flailing etc. and I would bet that is not going to be an issue for you

Jim Frisbie
Tech C EAA chapter 105
 
Thanks for your help,
so you simply trust that the parts are made from the material mentioned in the parts list. (E.g. Hs-702 2024 T3 alclad)?

I‘ll talk to him shortly, let‘s see…
 
Thanks for your help,
so you simply trust that the parts are made from the material mentioned in the parts list. (E.g. Hs-702 2024 T3 alclad)?

I‘ll talk to him shortly, let‘s see…

In a word--yes. With over 11000 RV's having flown and with decades in the business of selling kits, if they were using substandard materials, it would be known, and the market would have decided.
 
Certified materials

I came across this when I needed new longerons.

I went to a proper metal distributor and asked for the defined alloy and hardness. Unfortunately for me, the material he had was not marked with the standard manufacturer's numbers nor lot numbers. He had the documents but there was no way to tell that the documents related to the material in the warehouse. So, I reluctantly went elsewhere.

Every proper piece of building material will be certified by the manufacturer somehow. Sometimes the certification is on the packaging, sometimes it is printed on the stock. There should be a way to trace it back to when it was certified. This applies to most all dependable materials, even things like rope.
Sometimes finding the certification is easier than others.

Some of your parts will have the stamping/etching/printing, some you will have to ask Vans for the sheets included with shipping (to them). Can you ever know that YOUR part came from the shipping lot without an original mark?...No way. But you should be able to show an inspector that the process includes proper materials.

It may be very difficult to follow through on, but from a detail oriented inspector's point of view it is a reasonable ask.
 
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Simon, relax.....

there are a couple of RV builders and already flying RV´s nearby.

Stade, Uelzen and Hannover (Hodenhagen and Nienburg-Holzbalge) are their/our home-bases. They might get in contact with you (due to this post) or will in the future. However, you should send me (or KayS) a PM with your phonenumber and we hook you up with a quite large group of RV builders/pilots.

To build an homebuilt aircraft is a bit more paperwork and intermediate checks in germany compared to the U.S., but it is still possible, manageable and definitely worth it!

I think the important question is whether your A&I has done a homebuilt project before or is it his/her first one?? If it is, i suggest to get in contact with a A&I who has done it before to get an better idea of the requirements and what the officials want to see. "first timer" might overshoot a little bit.
My A&I never asked such questions.
There´s no need to contact Van´s on this topic, Your -7 is not the first one to be build in germany.
Rather get in contact with people who already did built a RV in germany.

Simon, check your PM´s....
 
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