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  #1  
Old 11-15-2022, 12:59 PM
glider_rider glider_rider is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Poland
Posts: 23
Default Thunderbolt CAI and Vans firewall fwd kit

I'm contemplating whether to choose thunderbolt Cold Air Induction engine vs stock IO-540. From what I understand, the CAI would increase power by additional 15 to 20 hp, which in turn would translate to a small (1-2 kn) top speed increase and hopefully a significant climb rate gain. The engine would not fit under the standard cawl.

What additions / deletions would be necessary in RV10 firewall front kit?

I would be using the aircraft as family hauler, from point A to point B. In the grand scheme of things, is it worth time and effort to upgrade the stock engine with cold air induction system?
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  #2  
Old 11-15-2022, 01:41 PM
Carl Froehlich's Avatar
Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 4,020
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I'm doing the same (engine should be here early spring). I'll be using the new James Cowl made for this engine along with a revised filter assembly.

I don't use the Van's Firewall Forward kit but suggest:
- If you get the recommended AirFlow Performance FM-200 system for this engine send a note to Don Rivera at AirFlow Performance on using his throttle and mixture linkage kit. This will also tell you the length needed for these control cables.
- The Governor and associated control cable should be the same.
- Oil Cooler and associated hoses should be the same. Here there is option to upgrade the cooler to the one used on the RV-14. This Air Flow Systems oil cooler has the same footprint as the one they put in the RV-10 kit.
- The fuel line going from the mechanical pump to the FM might need to be changed - but might not. Worry about it later.

While not engine specific consider deleting the Plane Power alternator. Use the nice 60amp B&C instead.

Carl
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  #3  
Old 11-15-2022, 02:19 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 3,278
Default also

I have a new Showplanes throttle/mixer control bracket (#TMC-06B) and control bracket angle (CBA-01) that I did not use. I'll make you a good deal on it if you want it.

Let me know...
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  #4  
Old 11-15-2022, 02:26 PM
glider_rider glider_rider is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Poland
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich View Post

- Oil Cooler and associated hoses should be the same. Here there is option to upgrade the cooler to the one used on the RV-14. This Air Flow Systems oil cooler has the same footprint as the one they put in the RV-10 kit.
thanks for the hint!

what prop and spinner do you intend to use?
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  #5  
Old 11-15-2022, 04:17 PM
Carl Froehlich's Avatar
Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is online now
 
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Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glider_rider View Post
thanks for the hint!

what prop and spinner do you intend to use?
For the James cowl he now has 14Ē fiberglass spinners to go with the cowl. If you want to spend some more money you can get the nice Hartzell 2297 polished aluminum spinner for ~$1500 from Vanís (they special order it for your).

If you go with the Showplanes cowl Vanís can also order the Hartzell 15Ē spinner for you.

I use the standard two blade Hartzell BA CS prop. Iíve seen no data showing better overall performance with the other options, especially if your priority is economical cross country cruise. I can report that it was (and still is) an excellent prop on my first RV-10 build.

Carl
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  #6  
Old 11-16-2022, 09:46 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glider_rider View Post
In the grand scheme of things, is it worth time and effort to upgrade the stock engine with cold air induction system?
Depends how you fly in cruise. If you are WOT and Rich, then yes a power boost and speed increase. If, like most of us, you run lean of peak EGT, the CAI will not produce any more power than a standard plenum at the same fuel flows. Their objective is to ingest more air (via greater density) and therefore make more power with more fuel added to that extra air (technically, the cooler air is denser and therefore more oxygen molecules in the same cubic space - power produced is directly related to the quantity of oxygen mixed with fuel). None of this really applies at leaner mixtures. So, for all out power production these are a benefit, but that also requires more fuel to get that power. For max efficiency, they don't really help, as the leaner mixture is not fully mixing with all of the oxygen anyways. LOP, by definition, means there are more oxygen particles than fuel particles to mix with it. ROP is the opposite and Peak is perfectly balanced, otherwise known as stochiometric.

Probably more than you wanted to know. As a family hauler, like mine, you will likely soon care about range instead of max power or speed and possibly fuel efficiency with the prices we have seen lately. When that happens, you will start to care about MPG and the CAI is no help in that equation. The only real "free lunch" adders are increasing compression ratio and optimizing ignition timing.

I would spend the money on the more efficient cowls mentioned above that can reduce drag and therefore improve MPG. This gets you your couple of knots in cruise without burning any more gas.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 11-16-2022 at 10:19 AM.
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  #7  
Old 11-16-2022, 01:55 PM
glider_rider glider_rider is offline
 
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thanks a lot!
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  #8  
Old 11-16-2022, 02:57 PM
Carl Froehlich's Avatar
Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is online now
 
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Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lr172 View Post
SNIP

I would spend the money on the more efficient cowls mentioned above that can reduce drag and therefore improve MPG. This gets you your couple of knots in cruise without burning any more gas.

Larry
+1, and the primary reason I am again using the James Cowl and plenum.

Side note - the CAS engine intake not being as low as for the vertical intake engine may provide a slight reduction in drag.

The extra ponies associated with the CAS engine are also a plus for climb. Nice to have even if not always used.

Carl
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