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RV-12 modified to fly IMC

hamblin10

Active Member
Has anybody actually modified their RV-12 for IMC (heated pitot, GTN650, ect)? I'm thinking of certifying my build as EAB and installing the IFR package in order to actually fly above the clouds when needed on trips. As EAB that will be perfectly legal until such time as my medical becomes questionable (as we all age) then I will fly under LSA rules below the clouds. What all did you add to your aircraft to make it IMC capable? Thanks!
 
Interesting.. not to get too off topic from your situation, but I thought the “3rd class medical reform” made it so that you don’t need to maintain your medical if you opted out.. so if you had a regular pilot certificate and a medical, as you age, you can allow the medical to expire and continue to fly your (non LSA) plane under “basic med” rules. This way you don’t need to limit yourself to LSA rules or limitations, right? What does going LSA do for you that basic med won’t do for you?
 
Equipping an aircraft to operate under IFR clearances / ATC and safely operate an aircraft in IMC are two different processes.

True, with a GPS 175, a decent radio and an EFIS, one can operate in the IFR environment.

An auto-pilot is a nice safety feature if single pilot.

But to be safe in IMC, you might to look into redundancy of the critical systems for navigation, communication and situation awareness, such a back up A/I, GPS with CDI that can be used to fly an approach.

A limitation in equipping an RV-12 for IFR operation in IMC is the limited electrical system capacity to add sufficient avionics for safety and redundancy.
 
True, I was only referring to being "legal". In my case, the sole purpose for equipping for IFR (other than training) is to get through the coastal marine layer in the mornings. If it's not VFR at cruise and inland or when I plan to get back, I'm not going.
 
What does going LSA do for you that basic med won’t do for you?

If you fly a plane that meets the light sport aircraft definition (i.e. weight, etc.) AND you adhere to the Sport Pilot rules (i.e. day VFR, etc.), then a Drivers License will suffice as your medical. (if you have not been denied an FAA medical)
 
When did people start thinking that a GPS was required for ifr? Convenient, sure, but not necessarily required.
 
Has anybody actually modified their RV-12 for IMC (heated pitot, GTN650, ect)? I'm thinking of certifying my build as EAB and installing the IFR package in order to actually fly above the clouds when needed on trips. As EAB that will be perfectly legal until such time as my medical becomes questionable (as we all age) then I will fly under LSA rules below the clouds. What all did you add to your aircraft to make it IMC capable? Thanks!

I went EAB and installed an Avidyne IDF540 in the panel and a Dynon heated pitot/AOA in the wing for IFR capability. The 540 provides VOR/ILS in addition to WAAS GPS and a second comm. The Dynon AP/IFD540 combination works well for flying coupled approaches. The iPAD with Foreflight adds a 3rd WAAS GPS (Dual) source and approach geo referenced plates. I have a 2nd iPAD with Foreflight and the IFD100 app that lets me run a second 540 display via Bluetooth to the panel unit. I also have two batteries and a redundant buss electrical system to keep the electrons flowing.

A G5 would make a nice backup but there is no place to put it. My panel is cut for a SV-D700 on the right side, however I prefer the iPAD mini where it is at.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS
 

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I went EAB and installed an Avidyne IDF540 in the panel and a Dynon heated pitot/AOA in the wing for IFR capability. The 540 provides VOR/ILS in addition to WAAS GPS and a second comm. The Dynon AP/IFD540 combination works well for flying coupled approaches. The iPAD with Foreflight adds a 3rd WAAS GPS (Dual) source and approach geo referenced plates. I have a 2nd iPAD with Foreflight and the IFD100 app that lets me run a second 540 display via Bluetooth to the panel unit. I also have two batteries and a redundant buss electrical system to keep the electrons flowing.

A G5 would make a nice backup but there is no place to put it. My panel is cut for a SV-D700 on the right side, however I prefer the iPAD mini where it is at.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS

Had to look twice to confirm it was still an RV-12. Not knocking it at all, but thats a lot of avionics for that Rotax to pull. Very nice.
 
When did people start thinking that a GPS was required for ifr? Convenient, sure, but not necessarily required.

Agreed, but seems backwards to install an ILS/Nav Radio these days when just adding a certified GPS source adds so many more approaches. Garmin 175 unit was most cost effective (& capable) path forward for me.
 
What does going LSA do for you that basic med won’t do for you?

Sport Pilot medical requirements are less burdensome than BasicMed (no bi-annual course to take and no 4-year physical) at the cost of restricted privileges. So maintaining a medical (FAA or BasicMed) and flying an E-AB certificated aircraft allows for greater privileges, such as IFR, with the option to transition to Sport Pilot medical rules in the future. However it’s important to note that most things that are disqualifying under a Class III are also disqualifying under BasicMed or SportPilot in theory. IOW if a condition would ground you under a Class III, you technically probably would need to ground yourself under the other programs. People tend to think BasicMed and SportPilot eliminates most groundable conditions but in reality all they really do is shift identification and compliance to the pilot.
 
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Biannual= twice a year
Biennial = every two years
I agree with what you posted, but the devil is in the details.
Pilot with FAA medical has a pacemaker installed, FAA now requires all sorts of paperwork, tests, etc, before flying again. Expensive tests, paperwork takes forever.
Pilot with basic med has pacemaker, asks his doctor about flying, doc says sure, no problem. No further issues or costs.
 
Biannual= twice a year
Biennial = every two years
I agree with what you posted, but the devil is in the details.
Pilot with FAA medical has a pacemaker installed, FAA now requires all sorts of paperwork, tests, etc, before flying again. Expensive tests, paperwork takes forever.
Pilot with basic med has pacemaker, asks his doctor about flying, doc says sure, no problem. No further issues or costs.

Thanks—corrected, but it wasn’t a critical pedantic error on my part as I’m sure everyone got what I meant. Anyway, I purposely didn’t delve into the world of SIs as in a lot of those instances the conditions with proper treatment aren’t ultimately disqualifying, although the SI issuance relief is a huge pro in favor of BasicMed IMO— I personally benefit from the lack of an OSA SI under basicmed. My intent was to address more general health concerns that aren’t addressed by an SI. To be fair, even under a Class I/II/III compliance of the rules for non-chronic but nevertheless grounding conditions is based on the honor system. Heck we all know that there are folks out flying everyday without any kind of medical or appropriate rating.
 
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I put a VOR/LOC/GS unit in my 12. I wanted to be able to do my six month proficiency holds and approaches in the 12. Mine is an ELSA. HERE’s a weird wrinkle. The FAA says the safety pilot has to have a medical. However, any sport pilot can be the PIC while I do my proficiency flying under the hood.

I thought an IFR GPS would be an unnecessary expense since the VOR/LOC/GPS allows me to accomplish what I want.
 
Nice panel

John
Bit off topic but a couple of questions:
1. How well can you read the iPad in that location (thinking of the same location on my -7)
2. I notice you have the ram mount, do you have a screen protector on the iPad? On my new ram mount (iPad Mini 6) the roller presses on the edge of the screen protector (glass) and I am concerned it will crack it.
Figs
 
Has anybody actually modified their RV-12 for IMC (heated pitot, GTN650, ect)? I'm thinking of certifying my build as EAB and installing the IFR package in order to actually fly above the clouds when needed on trips. As EAB that will be perfectly legal until such time as my medical becomes questionable (as we all age) then I will fly under LSA rules below the clouds. What all did you add to your aircraft to make it IMC capable? Thanks!

I modified my ELSA RV12 for IMC. The electrical setup: The PC680 was replaced with two EarthX batteries mounted behind the baggage bulkhead. A B&C pad mounted alternator was added to a new and separate 30 amp buss. The stock electrical system had minor modifications to share the loads between the two electrical buses.

The equipment installed: (2)G3X touch screens, GMC307 autopilot controller, GPS175 certified GPS, MGL N16 VOR/ILS, GAP26 heated pitot tube, GTR 200 Radio, GDL39R ADSB, GTX23ES XPONDER and all the supporting switches, fuses and black boxes.

Center of gravity move aft a little and total weight gain was minimal due to the equipment chosen. My FAA operating limitations allow flight in IFR/IMC if so equipped and inspected per the Reg’s. It is not set up for flight in ice. Overall, I am happy with this setup. This plane has performed well in IMC.
 
side question... how stable is the RV-12 in the bumps...is it a decent IFR platform?
Published Wing loading is 10.4 pounds per SF

basically the same if not a little worse than a Cessna 152 at 10.5 pounds per SF. Its been a long while since I last flew a 150 or 152, but I recall them giving a noticeably rougher ride than even a 172.

and since clouds usually bring bumps......

Any reports from anyone with recent time in a 150/152 and an RV-12? How would you say they compare?
 
The electrical setup: The PC680 was replaced with two EarthX batteries mounted behind the baggage bulkhead. A B&C pad mounted alternator was added to a new and separate 30 amp buss. The stock electrical system had minor modifications to share the loads between the two electrical buses.

Assuming the OP installs the 912iS, modifying the electrical system may not be necessary.

He will already have the EarthX ETX900 and the 912iS has two generators. The B generator which powers the main bus is 400W.

Now, with everything on (dual screens, autopilot, dual landing lights, strobes) I am using 11-12 amps. So there is a lot of excess capacity.
 
John
Bit off topic but a couple of questions:
1. How well can you read the iPad in that location (thinking of the same location on my -7)
2. I notice you have the ram mount, do you have a screen protector on the iPad? On my new ram mount (iPad Mini 6) the roller presses on the edge of the screen protector (glass) and I am concerned it will crack it.
Figs

I have no issues with reading or operating the iPad mini at that location other than seeing ADS-B targets on Foreflight (more of a color contrast issue on the chart). I have also tried my iPad Pro in the same location and it's just a bit too large with the angled mount. I have a knee holder for the Pro, but usually do not use it. I have a Spigen GLAS screen protector on my mini 4 and the roller does not seem to be a problem.

I did modify the RAM mount to get cooling air to the back of the iPad from the two 40x40mm fans on the backside.

John Salak
 
Little bumpy

I am assisting on an RV-12 with 912ULS. This weekend I flew it in some moderate mid-day turbulence and I can say it is affected much more than my RV-6A. The RV-12 I was flying has a Dynon Flightdek 180 with AP and the AP had trouble keeping up with the turbulence. I ended up turning off AP and hand flying.

I personally would NOT fly an RV-12 in IMC unless I was just going through a thin marine layer. Even then I would have to feel very comfortable I understood the weather at that moment in time (and we know it changes). The plane is too light and moderately powered for IMC IMHO.
 
I am assisting on an RV-12 with 912ULS. This weekend I flew it in some moderate mid-day turbulence and I can say it is affected much more than my RV-6A. The RV-12 I was flying has a Dynon Flightdek 180 with AP and the AP had trouble keeping up with the turbulence. I ended up turning off AP and hand flying.

I personally would NOT fly an RV-12 in IMC unless I was just going through a thin marine layer. Even then I would have to feel very comfortable I understood the weather at that moment in time (and we know it changes). The plane is too light and moderately powered for IMC IMHO.

I was afraid of that....thanks for the report
 
I was just revisiting this thread, doing searches trying to get a feel for how many folks actually take their RV-12 into IMC

I'm a rusty pilot with IR. Daydreaming of a "retirement project". Don't know that I'll ever pursue getting instrument current again, but maybe.... really looking more at it trying to get a read on the capabilities of teh RV-12.

Looking at this post.

........

A G5 would make a nice backup but there is no place to put it. My panel is cut for a SV-D700 on the right side, however I prefer the iPAD mini where it is at.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS

yeah I was thinking you could put a G5 behind that ipad if you really wanted one...in place of the D700 that you don't want anyway.... anyway,nnice panel as it is!
 
I am placing an order for the GPS 175 and GAD 29 on Monday. I finally found an avionics A&P that will perform the install and the 200' of morning fog will no longer keep me grounded waiting for the sun to burn it off.

(Dual G3X E-LSA avionics package)
 
side question... how stable is the RV-12 in the bumps...is it a decent IFR platform?
Published Wing loading is 10.4 pounds per SF

Not a direct answer, but my RV-9A is not a good IFR platform. It likes to wave a wing at every gust, and does this in the pattern, too. I find that I need to maintain proficiency both hand flying and also when flying with full automation.

What IFR is good for in the RV-9A is not having to worry about cloud clearance rules like you do VFR. Also, I never fly through a cloud that I haven't assessed visually before entry. FIS-B (ADS-B upload) is helpful but only as supporting information.

A good rule from a test pilot friend is to not fly above an overcast less than 1,000 feet. That way, if the engine goes poop, you've got a screaming chance of finding somewhere soft.

And it is legal to get training and even do check rides for Instrument in an equipped but not certified LSA as long as you don't go actual IMC. That was on the recent Flight Instructor Refresher Clinic.
 
And it is legal to get training and even do check rides for Instrument in an equipped but not certified LSA as long as you don't go actual IMC. That was on the recent Flight Instructor Refresher Clinic.

There are competing views on this.
The wording on my airworthiness certificate states otherwise:

Airworthiness.png
 
There are competing views on this.

Competing views on the FARs? Can't claim to be surprised. There was at least one egregious error on the recent FIRC. And often, the "correct" answer depends on the local FSDO, regardless of Washington.
 
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