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Need help recover a new EarthX ETX680C battery

filiperosa

Well Known Member
Hello,

2 years and 7 months ago I bought a ETX680C battery. Each 6 months I used a optimate lithium charger to keep it top up but never test it. It is brand new on the box as it come.

Yesterday went to test it to connect some avionics and it is dead. 1.20V voltage and the FAULT line is on which according to the manual it means:

"BMS electronics problem"

I contacted customer support and the final answer was:

"I’m sorry, there is no way to force a charge into it as this would not be safe, do not attempt to do this.

The battery is 2 years 7 months old and it has drained to the point of no recovery."

Which I don´t understand why and what should I have done different! This battery is from the factory which was just top up and not used. I am not working now and spend my time working on my project which is my dream. So I am very disappoint that I spent a lot of money for a brick.

My question here is, anyone knows a way I can recovery this battery?

If not there is another brand someone suggests? I am not in a financial situation to keep buying bricks.

very disappointed about the situation,
Filipe
 
Battery

You say that you charged the battery 6 months ago and it is now showing 1.2 volts? Did you have anything connected to it?

Batteries with the lifepo4 chemistry typically lose between 2% and 3% per month. So, over a six month period, only about 18% of the charge should be lost, and the battery voltage should still be near its normal voltage.

Having a voltage of 1.2 volts would seem to indicate some sort of parasitic load on the battery over time.

Unfortunately, discharging this type of battery to that low of a voltage likely ruined the battery. Attempting to charge it might end badly. Google videos of improperly charged lithium batteries to get an idea.
 
Hello,

No, never connected to anything except the charger. In fact I did not test 6 months ago if it was good, just connected the charger overnight. It is brand new in the box!

Now is even showing less, 1.03V

Yesterday was the first time I was trying to connect it to something.

Filipe
 

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BMS

The BMS units I'm familiar with do these functions:
  • disconnect if cell voltage goes too low
  • disconnect if voltage goes too high
  • disconnect if current draw is too high

When they disconnect on low voltage, you can usually read some voltage at the terminals... but if you try to apply any load the voltage will drop to zero.

In that case... and with the BMS units I've been using... The voltage seen at the terminals is not an accurate reflection of the actual voltage of the cells behind the BMS.
 
Reset the BMS?

FILIPE,
Did you try to reset the BMS via the Optimate charger?
Or else, contact EarthX they can diagnose and maybe offer a solution.
 
I did what Rocketman suggested and I just watched some videos about lithium batteries being charged and bad things happening. I know there are different type of lithium batteries but I would plug it in a wide open space if I were charging one.

Be careful and good luck bringing it back to life.
 
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Call Customer Support again . . .

Maybe you could explain that your new, but uninstalled, battery has failed and request a replacement under warranty. Usually RV component suppliers are very helpful and understanding.
 
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There was a long discussion with them and they were helpful but the best they offer was:

We would like to offer you a discount for a new battery with 20% off.

I am not going to spent more money on something that would end the same. It is no sense.

I opened the battery and found that I have 13v at the cell. Anyone can suggest what I can do?

Thank you,
Filipe
 

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This is a good lesson for new builders. Earthx recommends waiting to purchase your battery until you really need it.

IMHO any battery that sits for over two years with infrequent charging is going to suffer. AND if there’s a warranty issue, you have a good chance of not discovering it until it’s too late.

Again, IMHO this issue isn’t Earthx’s fault.
 
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Steady Fault light..

If you can’t reset it by following the EarthX instructions, I would talk to Kahy or Logan at EarthX before experimenting with it.
 
Before this I was talking with them and the answer I got was the same as the first post:

" The battery is 2 years 7 months old and it has drained to the point of no recovery."

Which, when I order it made not 2 years and 7 months yet. They offer me 20% discount on another battery. I am very disappoint. Never used. Top up a few times. Battery has voltage inside. no voltage on the connectors outside. I feel I just throw away money down the pipe.
 
Well you learned a expensive lesson. I'm 99.99% finished with my 7 and I just ordered a battery, a Odyssey.
 
I have to agree with you - that's very disappointing.

I bought my 680c over 2 years before flying, and used it from time to time during testing. I recharged after use with the optimate charger that they sell. It's working fine. I have read on other forums like AeroElectric people that had the same problem as you, and they never got satisfaction.

I don't recall reading on the EarthX website that this was a risk, and that the battery should be kept on a charger or used regularly or it would become a paperweight.

One crazy idea would be to bring or send the battery to an electronics guru to see if there is something they could do to get it back to life. Someone like BigClive.
 
One crazy idea would be to bring or send the battery to an electronics guru to see if there is something they could do to get it back to life. Someone like BigClive.

Or check with a RC club (remote control aircraft) in your area. They are used to working with those types of batteries in all sizes. They might have an idea of what to do and know how to do it safely.
 
I don't recall reading on the EarthX website that this was a risk, and that the battery should be kept on a charger or used regularly or it would become a paperweight.

Yes, exactly, I did nothing wrong and follow everything on the manual. I found the same problem also from another users. very very disappointing. I am not working for a salary at the moment and had invested with the hope to get something with quality.

From the manual, it says:

Self-Discharge Rate < 3% / month @ 25 °C

and it also says:

EarthX lithium batteries have over discharge protection via an internal Battery Management
System (BMS) to disconnect the battery from the active load (your vehicle) to protect the
cells from damage when it is 95-98% drained.


Lets assume it would loose 3% a month (which should be less), it would be 90%. If a 2% discharge rate, that would be 60%. So I would say in 30 months less than 90%.

And that less than 90% would happen if I would not have charge it. Even if it would be more time it would have entered the disconnect fase to save the battery. The answer from EarthX was:

"The battery is 2 years 7 months old and it has drained to the point of no recovery. " (I ordered 2 years and 6 months back)

I wonder if my battery had some kind of defect which I did not realise because I did not apply any load or did not use on the standard way.

Nothing of this really makes sense to me, I had charged a few times but according to the manual even if I had not charge it, it should had been fine.

My main frustration is that I feel that I did nothing wrong, I read the manual when I got it 2 or 3 times like I do with everything, I top it up. I just did not use it. I did not read anywhere that you should use it.

I am here listening for opinions and suggestions and appreciate all of them that I got until now. Thanks

Will ask help from a electronics shop guru.
 
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Note how that BMS circuit works, it can independently access each interior cell. That is what you need to do if there is any chance. I dont know about the external access on the earthX - if it only has the two output posts and not a smaller multi strand connector, then you are SOL.

Note that other LiFePO4 batteries do have a multi strand access port, and their chargers will externally charge each cell to balance them. All sorts of checks are make with discharges and charges going on. Not magic, but it is complicated and has to be done at the individual cell level. Shorai is an example.

Another thread for your databank.
 
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If you can’t reset it by following the EarthX instructions, I would talk to Kahy or Logan at EarthX before experimenting with it.

+1 on the recommendation, BUT ...

Be aware that if you call, Kathy is "not available" for several days.

In a similar matter, I purchased a couple of batteries and one of those "life happens" things occurred. About 5+ years later, I go an pull them off the shelf and they too read maybe a volt and could not be resurrected.

I called and they explained what had occurred. I asked if they wanted them back for research and they said no because it did what was anticipated. And if I had thought more about them, I would have know. In MY case, it was a learning experience.

I do know though, that if a battery "fails out of the box", they are QUICK to jump on it to see what might have happened.

Unfortunately, for the original poster, he is out of the cost of another battery from EarthX minus 20% or the cost of a battery from a different vendor.

[Imagine my ENGINE that was ordered way too early and now that I am back on the project, I sent it back to the manufacturer with ZERO HOURS on it to make sure that it was "NEW" (again) and good to go. Cost me a lot of $$$$$ but since I will probably sell this plane or one of the others (RV6A, my third RV) when finished this year, I did not want there to be ANY QUESTION about its newness. Really big lesson learned about ordering too early.]

In any case, with the new battery, from whatever vendor, he will need to keep it charged up frequently, just as I now must do with my new replacements.
 
My sympathy to filiperosa, who is not only stuck needing a new battery, but shipping to Portugal too.

Also, thanks for this thread, as it was something I hadn't known about. I don't yet have my battery and will hold off longer. However, I do have their empty battery case for fit-checks.

Dave
 
Filippe, (excuse me if I spelled wrong),
Note that you now have access to the Green, Yellow, and White wires.

LiFePO4 batteries use 4 cells in series. Most likely the Green, Yellow, and White wires are the sense wires between each cell. You should measure something like 3 volts between wires. I don't know what the sequence would be, you will need to try. Like Yellow to White, Red to Green, etc. I suspect you will find one pair has a low voltage. If it is less than 2.50 volts, then it is certainly a problem.

Please report the voltages you find. If not too far gone we can possibly get it to come back to life.

-Bryan
 
Like blaplante described, if you're reading 13.14V then likely each cell is ~3.28V which is well within the safe range. It is possible that a single cell has fallen too low (<2.5) and is unusable.

As an aside, I have a pile of loose 50Ah prismatic LiFePO4 cells from an EV project that are all still measuring in the 3.3V range after sitting for 8 years. I assembled a 16s2p pack with an inverter as a UPS and they still have very close to their original capacity.
 
Filippe, (excuse me if I spelled wrong),
Note that you now have access to the Green, Yellow, and White wires.

LiFePO4 batteries use 4 cells in series. Most likely the Green, Yellow, and White wires are the sense wires between each cell. You should measure something like 3 volts between wires. I don't know what the sequence would be, you will need to try. Like Yellow to White, Red to Green, etc. I suspect you will find one pair has a low voltage. If it is less than 2.50 volts, then it is certainly a problem.

Please report the voltages you find. If not too far gone we can possibly get it to come back to life.

-Bryan

Hello,
I took the battery yesterday to a electronic shop. I am waiting for them to say me something soon. I will measure them when it gets back.

Thanks a lot for the messages from all!
 
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So, the cells are good. The problem is the BMS that even with a higher voltage it is impossible to get so high at the outputs. The electronic shop charged each cell individual and they told me the voltage for each is good. However the BMS is cutting the voltage to the outside. They suggest for me to get a new BMS
 
So, the cells are good. The problem is the BMS that even with a higher voltage it is impossible to get so high at the outputs. The electronic shop charged each cell individual and they told me the voltage for each is good. However the BMS is cutting the voltage to the outside. They suggest for me to get a new BMS

Sounds like you might want to try another run at getting it warranty repaired, considering this new information.
 
Sounds like you might want to try another run at getting it warranty repaired, considering this new information.


Hello Mike,
Dont know why this is different from my initial situation. Got a battery, charged each six months. Stop working even without me using it. I guess it would not make different which part is failing. At least from my point of view.
 
Hello Mike,
Dont know why this is different from my initial situation. Got a battery, charged each six months. Stop working even without me using it. I guess it would not make different which part is failing. At least from my point of view.

In the eyes of a battery company, all builders are idiots who are constantly destroying their battery cells. But if the cells are okay, it's a lot harder for a builder to destroy the BMS, so they may re-think their stand. It also wouldn't hurt to mention the negative publicity they're receiving here.
 
In the eyes of a battery company, all builders are idiots who are constantly destroying their battery cells. But if the cells are okay, it's a lot harder for a builder to destroy the BMS, so they may re-think their stand. It also wouldn't hurt to mention the negative publicity they're receiving here.

I agree, specially when they advertise here.
 
Hello all,

Sorry, not yet. I came to africa to drive a car for a person from Cote d Ivore back to Europe. Should be home next week. Will give an updated when back.

Thanks,
Filipe
 
BMS markings?

Since the battery is apart - filiperosa - can you find any identifying markings on the BMS? Most likely it is some off the shelf part. Perhaps your electronic shop can replace it, if we can find the right part.
 
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