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Ground Proximity Warning Device

Tumper

Tumper

Well Known Member
Hey friends,

Years ago, I effectively lost the vision in one eye, so I fly with monocular vision. I completed my RV-9 about 8 years ago and have been flying it since then.

When getting my tailwheel endorsement, I was “trained” to do a three-point landing. However, I was never quite able to master it. My problem is judging the height above the ground. I blame (right or wrong) my inability to judge my height above the ground on monocular vision, i.e. limited depth perception.

Right now, I always do wheel landings. I jokingly say I land by braille. When I feel the ground, push forward a little and cut power. However, I would like to have the option of doing a three point.

Here is my question. Does anyone have a ground proximity warning device on their plane? I looked for one for small GA planes, but I didn’t find anything. I know they must be out there.

A lot of cars have warning systems for backing up. And there are plenty out there to add to a car that didn’t have it factory installed. Would it work for an airplane?

I searched the forum and didn’t find anything on the subject.

Also, please don’t bash my landing skills unless you have monocular vision.
 
I was thinking about this type of proximity warning system on a lark but your situation is more serious than just a curiosity. Most modern cars all have the proximity warning system so it warns the driver of cars in the blind spot. Some have these sensors mounted at the front and rear bumpers to facility parallel parking. I saw something interesting on Amazon. I have to wonder if these systems are ultrasonic or real radar. If they use ultrasonic, then it's tough to adapt it to a noisy airplane environment. Good luck.

https://www.amazon.com/Zone-Tech-Re...&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583863992937383&th=1
 
Tumper said:
...Here is my question. Does anyone have a ground proximity warning device on their plane? I looked for one for small GA planes, but I didn’t find anything. I know they must be out there.

A lot of cars have warning systems for backing up. And there are plenty out there to add to a car that didn’t have it factory installed. Would it work for an airplane?...
Click to expand...

It's in the RV-4 subforum but check out this thread.
 
I flew with mono-vision for a while after eye surgery, so I understand the issue.
I also instruct, and explain that depth perception is not used much when landing. Watch the far end of the runway and your peripheral vision is what tells you when you are getting close to the ground. That is why the wheel landings work - because you can see the end of the runway (even if you don’t realize that is what you are doing).
The trick in a tail wheel plane is to be able to see the far end of the runway with the darn nose in the way. Find a spot out the side where you can see as far down the runway as possible as you flare and, with a bit of practice,I’ll bet you will be able to do three point landings…
 
I have one in my plane.. seems to work fine.. I don't exactly need it, but it's there :) It's one of those Landing Height products (I think it was installed before they "went certified"). I'd look for DIY options if you need one..
 
Ground Proximity warning device

This might be helpful in your search. Big airplanes have a Ground Proximity Warning System( not really what you are looking for ). This uses GPS to determine how close to terrain the aircraft is going to fly and warns the pilot in advance of an impending collision with the ground. Useful during departures and arrivals around terrain. They also have a system that is similar to what you are talking about. It uses the radar altimeter to bounce a signal off the ground to tell the pilots how far off the ground they are. It is used in the final approach segment of low visibility approaches. It announces something like 50, 30, 10 feet from touch down. If the airplane has a Heads Up Display, it also has a digital readout of feet above the runway. Very useful when it is difficult to see very far down the runway. It is way cool to have this device available to general aviation airplanes. Now if we could hook this up to a budget HUD......
 
Three point.....and monocular vision

Tumper said:
When getting my tailwheel endorsement, I was “trained” to do a three-point landing. However, I was never quite able to master it. My problem is judging the height above the ground. I blame (right or wrong) my inability to judge my height above the ground on monocular vision, i.e. limited depth perception.

Right now, I always do wheel landings. I jokingly say I land by braille. When I feel the ground, push forward a little and cut power. However, I would like to have the option of doing a three point.
Click to expand...

I guess my first question would be why do you want to do three point landings? I learned in Cubs and was trained in both three point and wheel landings. I much prefer wheel landings in most of the tail wheel airplanes I have flown. In C 180/185 it is the preferred method of getting on the ground. When I was doing my flight cards, I experimented with three point vs wheel landings of various configurations. SuzieQ does not particularly care for three point landings. Will she do them? Yes: but then the tail drags, wings quit flying and the main gear slams down. Umph. She lands much better wheel landings, with tail low if it is a tight spot. That is what my airplane and I like to do. I can't speak for others.

I agree with DGlaeser's post about landing. You don't really need binocular vision to make good landings. The view down the runway does not really change with binocular vision. As an Air Force study once showed: 'a US Air Force study (that led to a revolution in the study of vision and neuroscience more broadly) demonstrated many decades ago that (a) our sense of depth comes from many sources, and (b) stereo is of remarkably limited utility in many situations -- for example, when objects are much further away than the distance between our eyes, as is the case in most situations while flying. Motion is in many cases far more important. This is extremely well established in the literature.' You can get a Class 1 medical or any other class with one eye but need a waiver. You need to demonstrate your ability to fly with the vision you have.

Also, please don’t bash my landing skills unless you have monocular vision.
Click to expand...

I have vision in my left eye; it just doesn't look where I would like it to look. So I effectively have monocular vision. I have no problems with any phase of flight including landing. The Cub likes wheel landings as well, even in the back country, tail low. IMHO..... I would never bash your landing skills. You've been flying with one eye ;) for 8 years!:) Wiley Post lost his left eye in an oil rig accident before he started flying! And he did OK.....
 
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skypilot737 said:
This might be helpful in your search. Big airplanes have a Ground Proximity Warning System( not really what you are looking for ). This uses GPS to determine how close to terrain the aircraft is going to fly and warns the pilot in advance of an impending collision with the ground. Useful during departures and arrivals around terrain. They also have a system that is similar to what you are talking about. It uses the radar altimeter to bounce a signal off the ground to tell the pilots how far off the ground they are. It is used in the final approach segment of low visibility approaches. It announces something like 50, 30, 10 feet from touch down. If the airplane has a Heads Up Display, it also has a digital readout of feet above the runway. Very useful when it is difficult to see very far down the runway. It is way cool to have this device available to general aviation airplanes. Now if we could hook this up to a budget HUD......
Click to expand...

Actually big airplanes use radio altimeters all the time. At Ten Tanker we had to reposition the altimeter antenna, the tanks for the fire retardant were in the way. Since the antenna was no longer positioned in the optimal place between the main gear we had every different pilot complaining that it was either five feet too high or five feet too low in readings. Consider the nose high attitude of a big airplane on landing (except the DC-8). Their landing picture is mostly sky.
GPWS is a entirely different system.
 
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I have had the EngineBridge "Landing Height Controller" on my RV-10 for over 3 years. All of my flying buddies are amazed as a guy talks me down from 70 ft AGL to 1 ft AGL and then a sweet lady says, "zero". The guys still raved about it this morning when we flew to breakfast. Installation was straight forward.

I had one issue that appeared after about a year. It turned out to be a ground loop problem, which was quickly solved by Nidal's outstanding tech support. I love the system. I have the original version. The current "High Performance" model was not available when I got mine. And, no more "carrier landings". See https://www.enginebridge.com/product/high-performance-landing-height-system/
 
+1 for Microkit and Nidal. I received mine 4 years ago when it was in development so its the original and its still working well. Its a great aid when landing away from home.

My base airfield runway is 8 meters wide, so when landing at one that is say 30 meters wide its nice to have that bit of extra info in the background.

I am just investigating the upgrade options for my system, the new units have more functionality and are nicely integrated into a single unit.

The current info is at https://landingheight.com/product/landing-height-system-lhs-200-b/
 
bhoppe2 said:
I have had the EngineBridge "Landing Height Controller" on my RV-10 for over 3 years. All of my flying buddies are amazed as a guy talks me down from 70 ft AGL to 1 ft AGL and then a sweet lady says, "zero". The guys still raved about it this morning when we flew to breakfast. Installation was straight forward.

I had one issue that appeared after about a year. It turned out to be a ground loop problem, which was quickly solved by Nidal's outstanding tech support. I love the system. I have the original version. The current "High Performance" model was not available when I got mine. And, no more "carrier landings". See https://www.enginebridge.com/product/high-performance-landing-height-system/
Click to expand...

I have the engine bridge also, it performs flawlessly.
 

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