Canadian Builders Pre Close Up Question

I'm hoping to get some advice on how far I can complete my rudder prior to the Canadian MD-RA pre close inspection. I have completed the connection of the 2 skins with the stiffiners and shear clips but an unsure about attaching the spar to the rudder skins. I have clecoed it together and all the stiffener rivets can be seen through the lightening holes. I am just curious how far other Canadian builders have completed the rudder.

Thanks

General rule of thumb is the inspector needs to be able to see inside whatever structure he's inspecting. Rudder, elevators, fin, horiz. stabilizer, etc. But you should really be in touch with MDRA. When I went through this a few years ago, I was told to get in touch with the actual inspector who gave me some advice. More complicated are the fuel tanks. Do they need to be inspected before the aft bulkhead is installed but otherwise prosealed, or after the aft bulkhead is installed but completely prosealed? In my case the latter was OK by my inspector. I told MDRA at the time that for aircraft like the Vans series they should post actual recommendations on their website. Didn't get much agreement at the time and I haven't checked their website lately.

One thing a lot of us have done is hold off on the pre-close inspections and do them all at once since it's a flat cost regardless of how much is being inspected. The one big caveat with this is if you don't have someone who can look at your work, the MDRA inspector might be the first one to point out mistakes that you could prevent in later build work.

I think the inspector generally wants to be able to see the shop head of all your rivets without difficulty. The willingness to use inspection mirrors or camera will be up to the individual inspector, so some contact beforehand can be quite useful in determining how far to build.

Flying Canuck said:

One thing a lot of us have done is hold off on the pre-close inspections and do them all at once since it's a flat cost regardless of how much is being inspected. The one big caveat with this is if you don't have someone who can look at your work, the MDRA inspector might be the first one to point out mistakes that you could prevent in later build work.

I think the inspector generally wants to be able to see the shop head of all your rivets without difficulty. The willingness to use inspection mirrors or camera will be up to the individual inspector, so some contact beforehand can be quite useful in determining how far to build.

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This post is pure gold. Get ahold of your inspector and find out directly from them what their expectations are. Some are ok with flashlight and mirror, some aren't. Inspection cameras are not part of the approved process but in some instances inspectors will accept their use if it means the inspection can be done in a manner which will promote a better aviation safety outcome.

As always, communication is key. Don't be shy - MD-RA inspectors are humans like the rest of us and generally are huge aviation enthusiasts who want to see your dream of flight succeed.

Canadian_JOY said:

This post is pure gold. Get ahold of your inspector and find out directly from them what their expectations are. Some are ok with flashlight and mirror, some aren't. Inspection cameras are not part of the approved process but in some instances inspectors will accept their use if it means the inspection can be done in a manner which will promote a better aviation safety outcome.

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While seeming reasonable on first glance, this attitude ("I'll accept/reject this even though what you want to do meets the regulations") leads to more trouble with MD-RA than it solves. Having a single standard that planes are inspected to was the whole intent of forming the AIR-ABA, later MD-RA, program in the first place. Inspectors weren't supposed to make up their own standards to inspect to.

There are a lot of RV builders at Langley who will offer advice-- you should seek them out. I am not familiar with the RV-14, but I recall leaving the bottom rib of my RV-9 and Harmon Rocket just clecoed in place to allow for inspection.

For the VS and HS, The aft spars were left clecoed in place until after the inspection. As others have mentioned, the pre-close can be done once when the wings, fuse and tail bits are ready for inspection. This entails storing a lot of partially competed assemblies for a long time.

Another benefit of this is that it will also simplify any service bulletin compliance, modifications or wiring.

VV

Thanks for all the advice. I think I will just leave the spars clecoed in place until after the inspection. I didn't think about future SBs and wiring, but it sure will make those things easier. I guess I gotta order some more clecos.

Just had my pre close inspection on my 10 in September. Inspector I had was awesome. I had several conversations with him long before meeting him in my shop. Basically I waited till I had the fuselage, QB wings, and all the empennage complete before having him over. The only thing I left unclosed were the rolled edges on the control surfaces and the trailing edges of the elevators. QB wing skin was not done as well but ailerons and flaps were complete from Vans.

Hope this helps.

Keith

Snowflake said:

While seeming reasonable on first glance, this attitude ("I'll accept/reject this even though what you want to do meets the regulations") leads to more trouble with MD-RA than it solves. Having a single standard that planes are inspected to was the whole intent of forming the AIR-ABA, later MD-RA, program in the first place. Inspectors weren't supposed to make up their own standards to inspect to.

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You make an excellent point, Rob. "Inspector's personal standards" is - or should be - an oxymoron. Rather than seeking guidance from an individual MD-RA inspector on how to proceed, we should be seeking guidance from the organization's leadership.