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Tail wheel training cart

pa38112

Well Known Member
Years ago I saw an article on building a cart that was towed behind a vehicle to teach tail wheel rudder control. It was a tail wheel wooden cart with rear steering controlled by a 2" x 4" that pivoted in the center. The tow point was behind the operator to create a tendency to ground-loop if not properly controlled.
I can't find any information or plans in my internet searches. Does anyone have any information or photos of one? I just got a tail wheel aircraft and would like to build one to practice.
 
Just run down the isle of your supermarket pushing a full size steel shopping cart backwards in bare feet on a wet tile floor ... !

It's just like that :eek:
 
I often thought of this myself many many times over many years. Then I thought it was a little bit crazy. I'm glad enough other people are crazy too. :D

Seriously in plaine training is sufficient. However the quality of simulators for personal computers is so good there must be something to provide realistic training (aid) to maintain directional control using rudder, alerion, and brakes.

However nothing like practice in Crosswinds. I've always said that if you're not very confident and competent landing in crosswinds with the tricycle gear aircraft it's not going to get better in a taildragger. Master crosswind Landings in a trike and this will go a long way into making you a competent taildragger pilot.
 
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I often thought of this myself many many times over many years. Then I thought it was a little bit crazy. I'm glad enough other people are crazy too. :D

Seriously in plaine training is sufficient. However the quality of simulators for personal computers is so good there must be something to provide realistic training (aid) to maintain directional control using rudder, alerion, and brakes.

However nothing like practice in Crosswinds. I've always said that if you're not very confident and competent landing in crosswinds with the tricycle gear aircraft it's not going to get better taildragger. Master crosswind Landings in a trike and this will go a long way into making you a competent taildragger pilot.
I bought some VR goggles (Oculus Rift), a good PC (Joule Performance), graphics card (RTX2080Ti), some good rudder pedals (Thrustmaster TPR)/HOTAS/Stick and practiced with a game called DCS World.

I mainly used the Christen Eagle II, P-51, and Spitfire - all taildraggers obviously.

The goal was to "program" my feet to steer. I've had a few hours of tailwheel over the years, but never owned a tailwheel aircraft or had easy access to one in my flying club.

Using the sim, you can taxi as much as you like. Up and down the runway. Takeoff, and land immediately. Feel the need for right rudder. See what happens when you do it wrong. Over and over and over. It becomes "natural".

Just like riding a bicycle, eventually your feet will just do the right thing depending on the conditions.

Yes, it cost some money but less than 10 hours of flying a "real" taildragger where I live. I've got at least 100 hours in this sim. It's very easy to fly when it's rainy or you only have 15 mins and want to give the "feet-brain" connection a workout, or try that "impossible turn" in your Christen Eagle II at Dubai airport.

I got this stuff in 2019, and as we know technology gets approximately 1.5x better every year for the same money.

http://www.rv8.ch/vr-flight-simulator/
 
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Learning how to keep a taildragger straight isn't that hard. As gmcjetpilot described, start in your nosewheel plane. Just keep the thing straight and going in the direction you want... that's about all that matters. Once you can do that, the tailwheel will be just another facet.

Dave
 
Rv8ch,

What's the minimum amount you would need to spend to set up a simulator like yours?

My PC was about $3000, and the other stuff about another $1000. The prices are about the same now, but the performance is better. It could probably be done with slightly less powerful hardware, but I wanted to make sure that I didn't have any lag or other artifacts that took away from the "VR" experience and can cause motion sickness. I might have overshot a bit, but it works smoothly, and feels like I'm flying. The visuals are amazing, and the responsiveness of the VR headset is instant. You can look around just like in a real airplane, and it looks real. You can see blades of grass and leaves on trees. You look out the window to see the flaps' position; you can see the rivets on the wings.

If you not had a chance to try a simulator with good VR headset, you will probably be surprised how good it is.
 
I have been flying air combat sims for many, many years...mostly all tail wheel fighters. I fly the sims called DCS, IL2 and some Rise of Flight. It's nice to set different weather conditions, time of day and wind speed/direction.

I like to believe all this tail wheel practice will pay off in the real world.
 
...
I like to believe all this tail wheel practice will pay off in the real world.
In flight, no real difference between nosewheel and tailwheel. On the ground, my experience is that it helps. It's not natural for us to steer with our feet, so getting experience taxiing with your feet, responding to takeoff p-factor, and handling crosswinds - no matter how accurate they are - will help.

I found that DCS seems to have the most accurate ground handling of the sims I tested, but I have not tested in about 2 years, so the others might have caught up.
 
Sorry for the thread drift...

rv8ch,

As a avid Flight Simmer and avid tailwheel enthusiast, I'm not sure DCS with VR is the best intro to getting the feet working. I have DCS with a set up similar to yours using and Oculus Rift, and I actually find flying the Christen Eagle and Mustang (I don't have the Spitfire, yet) quite difficult to make pretty. I'm not sure it translates well to real world tailwheel flying is my point.

I would argue (in my experience) that tailwheel aircraft takeoffs and landings are 20% visual and 80% from all your other senses. DCS/VR is a purely visual experience. It rather hard to tell what's going on with the finer points and your feet. I have a set of older CH Products rudder pedals so that might be a very different experience than your pedals... But in general, there is not enough feedback into my system to provide an accurate depiction of what it's like to fly a tailwheel airplane. It's neat, for sure, but I wouldn't qualify it as any real learning. I guess my point, if anything, is I would caution against negative learning.

My evidence that 80% comes from feel rather than what you see in front of you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mma-Mwg9NNM

I think the idea of a pull behind ground training device or 1932's Flying & Glider Manual's "The Penguin" provides much more real feedback and is probably more beneficial. Just a gamer CFI's opinion...
 

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... I have a set of older CH Products rudder pedals so that might be a very different experience than your pedals... But in general, there is not enough feedback into my system to provide an accurate depiction of what it's like to fly a tailwheel airplane. ...
My setup feels very accurate and responsive, and after a bit of practice, I didn't have any trouble with the ground handling of the Eagle or the P51. The Spitfire was a bit more tricky.

I know every human is different, and I feel like the training I did on the sim was helpful when I started flying my RV-8. It might not be helpful for others, since as you correctly said, it's purely visual.

Here's an interesting article that has this diagram:

sensory-input-chart2.png

https://vestibular.org/article/what...alance-system-how-do-we-maintain-our-balance/

I doubt I could learn to ride a unicycle or even a bicycle using VR, since the outputs are more than just your hands and feet - they require the whole body to move. For flying an aircraft, the outputs are usually just hands and feet, and it feels like a (good) sim could add value. It did for me. :)
 
You could add some realism by programming it to ding your bank account for a couple of AMU’s every time you groundloop it. ;)
 
When I was a teenager, I was quite familiar with wooden airplane construction. A friend of mine built a Penguin. I don't know if he ever operated it or not, but my overall impression of the project was that it was just as complicated and detailed as a real wooden airplane. Same numbers of pieces, fittings, etc. Sure, the engine and wheels were cheaper and he didn't need instruments, but overall, for the work it took, he should have built a real airplane.

As for the verisimilitude of simulations, remember that small differences make feel and sensitivity changes to a taildragger. I changed from treaded tires to slick tires on my C180 and on concrete, it got easier, for example. No change on grass. Same size tires and pressure.

Look, it's not hard to learn a taildragger. Find one for rent and get some instruction - you'll be happily surprised. All you gotta remember, really, is one word: KISS.

Keep It Straight, Stupid.

Dave

Dave
 
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