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14A / 10 build time apples to apples

So I’m ready to order a kit and on the fence about a 14A and a 10
I have a 4 seater plane to use if I need it but I do like the size of the 10
So I guess part of the decision is coming down to build time.
So my question is if all things being equal Both kits would be QB
What’s the time difference in these kits
Thanks in advance
 
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Given the option i will fly a 10 over a 14. I have time in both and find the 10 a better ride.

Depending on your day job, my rough estimate is the 10 will add a year to your build.

Carl
 
...at least

...at least a year. You see the posts of people building a -10 in two years. Is it possible? Yes. Is it the norm? Definitely NOT...
 
I was at that cross road and although the build time was not a factor for me nor so much the amount of fiberglass work, my decision was made based on the fact that I did not need a 4 seater (i.e. more fuel burn) but the love of the view that one will get from the canopy of a 14 vs. the somewhat limited view of a 10
The 14 has proven for me to be a wonderful flying plane which offers some sportieness of a 7 and stability of a 10 for a IFR type flying. I have come to love the plane tremendously.
 
What is your average fuel burn for your -14? Curious...for next build!
Down below, about 10+G/hour but for X-Country which I flew higher and LOP, I was burning 8 to 8.5G airport to airport at 162 knots speed.
 
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For similar load and flight conditions, standard 170kt cruise at some altitude above 6K’:
- RV-14 will burn 9-10 gph
- RV-10 will burn 11-12 gph

Ive gotten the RV-14A down to 8gph or so above 11K’ The RV-10 I’ve had down to 9.5gph above 11K’. Again holding the 170kts TAS.

Note - I did some drag reduction on my RV-10. The RV-14A I flew was stock.

Carl
 
So is it safe to say there is about an additional 20-30 % more build time required for a 10 ?

Yes.

Spitballing, I'd call the canopy on a 14, a 6, 7, or a 9 a 100ish hour job. Probably a lot less if you've done it before.

The top (with doors) on the -10 is a ~500 hour job, if you include finishing the inside and readying the exterior for paint. Again, that number probably drops substantially if you've done it before.

The rest of the difference is the size difference (and rivet count) between the two models.
 
So is it safe to say there is about an additional 20-30 % more build time required for a 10 ?

This is hard to say. Remember, the -14 was ‘rivet holes supplied to final size and finish’ from day 1. Most 10’s were match-drilled/deburred. We need a recent builder of a 10 to chime in.
 
Rv10 build

We built our 10 in 15 months from kit arrival to first flight. Yes there where 3 experienced builders working. Not easy but we did it. It was the third customer built 10 to fly. To old to do that again.
 
This is hard to say. Remember, the -14 was ‘rivet holes supplied to final size and finish’ from day 1. Most 10’s were match-drilled/deburred. We need a recent builder of a 10 to chime in.

Vans announced last year they were retooling for the 10 to also be final sized punched holes... not sure if they've completed that process though.

https://www.vansaircraft.com/2020/07/vans-announces-plan-to-move-to-final-size-holes-on-rv-10-kits/

As a -14 builder I can confirm that the final sized holes and quality of the step-by-step plans makes things ridiculously easy.
 
Yes.

Spitballing, I'd call the canopy on a 14, a 6, 7, or a 9 a 100ish hour job. Probably a lot less if you've done it before.

The top (with doors) on the -10 is a ~500 hour job, if you include finishing the inside and readying the exterior for paint. Again, that number probably drops substantially if you've done it before.

The rest of the difference is the size difference (and rivet count) between the two models.
ok thanks so much I will reach out vans and find out about the final size drilling on a 10 and if its likely I would get the updated kit
 
I received my 10 empennage kit a couple of weeks ago and I have not found any pre-drilled parts that are not final size holes. I only have the empennage kit so far though.
 
QB 10

I have built two RV’s prior to my -10; an -7A and a -12. My advice is skip the -14 and go for the room, especially since you said you’re not going to do aerobatics. I ordered the kits to start on my -10 in late 2019 and then the got sidetracked for most of 2020 and didn’t start building until Christmas 2020. I’m now on section 43 working on the cabin cover. My empennage and wings are are all done and waiting in the hangar and I built my engine, and then dyno tested it at Ly-Con earlier this month. Prop on order…

I also work full time and have my wife, along with older sons with one still living at home - so I stay busy. But I also hope to finish my 10 in the next year; it’s doable, the key is to work on it consistently and stay after it. It also helps to have a well stocked tool inventory.

I went off plans with a composite tailcone, showplanes cowl, building my own engine, doing my own electrical system design, all my avionics, etc…but if you go with the quick build and get after it, you can do it in decent time. If you’ve not built before, I recommend sticking to the plans and/or buying things like your engine, hoses and avionics from reputable sources ready to go. If you do that and the QB, as Bob said, it’s very doable in two years
 
This is hard to say. Remember, the -14 was ‘rivet holes supplied to final size and finish’ from day 1. Most 10’s were match-drilled/deburred. We need a recent builder of a 10 to chime in.

Finished my 10 in April 2020. Took me 4.5 years, slow build, averaged about 10 or so hours a week… some weeks a few more, some a few less. I maybe had a stretch of 30-45 days where i didnt work on it.

I think doing a quick build kit would have saved me a year and I think the new kits with the final drilled holes would have probably saved another year.
 
Has it happened?

Interesting. This was announced 18 months ago. Has the change-over been completed?


Vans announced last year they were retooling for the 10 to also be final sized punched holes... not sure if they've completed that process though.

https://www.vansaircraft.com/2020/07/vans-announces-plan-to-move-to-final-size-holes-on-rv-10-kits/

As a -14 builder I can confirm that the final sized holes and quality of the step-by-step plans makes things ridiculously easy.
 
Interesting. This was announced 18 months ago. Has the change-over been completed?

It seems to be. My 10 fuse kit arrived last month and almost everything was final sized, including the bits marked as not final sized. I've only found about a few dozen holes so far (normally screw holes but a few 1/8" holes) that need to be drilled.

The instructions, however, aren't totally updated. So you have to piece together which steps can be ignored and which can't. The devil's in the details there too. Usually you can ignore entire paragraphs but sometimes there will be a screw hole that will actually need to be drilled or a countersink that needs to happen or a trimming operation etc.
 
SNIP..
The instructions, however, aren't totally updated. So you have to piece together which steps can be ignored and which can't. The devil's in the details there too. Usually you can ignore entire paragraphs but sometimes there will be a screw hole that will actually need to be drilled or a countersink that needs to happen or a trimming operation etc.

This is a real pain. If you follow the instructions you will do want is needed, but add a lot of unnecessary work. If you skip around to take advantage of the full size holes, you can make mistakes. Overlay this with trying to consolidate finished parts for prime before rivet.

This is my fourth RV build, second RV-10 so I have some intuition on what to do. Even so I find myself going back over the instructions far more that one would expect.

I hear from Van’s that they simply do not have the bandwidth to update the plans reflecting the new full punch parts. Considering the last two years, and the upcoming next two years, I suspect a major plan revision like what is needed here is just not going to happen.

Carl
 
Spit-balling

I hate to throw out numbers without a lot of data but here goes. The 10 is 95% match-drilled now and yes the 5% takes 20% to figure it out. My guess is a 10 takes 20 to 25% more time and probably will costs about the same more. Build what your mission dictates is the trump card. The 14 is a great very roomy 2 place airframe. If you want to do some acro so much the better. They fly very close to the same with the 14 more agile and the 10 slightly more stable but close. (Insurance companies for the most part recognize time in either one the same) The 10 most likely will have a higher resale as a % of the costs but the 14 has been hanging in there. Do you want to carry 2+ people you will need the 10. For me I wanted 2 people and sometimes more and a lot of baggage (folding bicycles, etc.) so the 10 is needed. I'd ballpark a 10 is close to a year longer build time and 30k more expensive. Regardless either one is an amazing airframe. Every time I get out of my 14 I marvel at the technology and thank Vans for producing this kit. I probably will do the same with the 10.
 
I received my 10 empennage kit a couple of weeks ago and I have not found any pre-drilled parts that are not final size holes. I only have the empennage kit so far though.

Eric, mind if I ask when you ordered your 10's empennage? I ordered before OSH and was initially told to expect crating now, but that's obviously not happening and I'm not given any new date on when that will happen.

Thanks,
Jim McGill
 
Jim, I have the same question for Eric as you. Order in the same timeframe. No news and was told we should hear something shortly. The lack of any clarity is a little concerning but ultimately just a minor irritant I’m sure. I’d love to hear “we hope within another weeks but depends on xyz” even that is better than “standby.”
 
Jim, I have the same question for Eric as you. Order in the same timeframe. No news and was told we should hear something shortly. The lack of any clarity is a little concerning but ultimately just a minor irritant I’m sure. I’d love to hear “we hope within another weeks but depends on xyz” even that is better than “standby.”
Pdp, adding to the fog is that the new tracking site gives a window (late summer) for my QB wings and fuse, but nothing at all for the emp and I was worried it fell out of the system. When I emailed, I got the "don't call us, we'll call you" (not that brutal, really, and I'm sure they're doing everything possible to mitigate the problems.) Sorry you're in the same situation, but it helps to know I'm not alone!
 
Eric, mind if I ask when you ordered your 10's empennage? I ordered before OSH and was initially told to expect crating now, but that's obviously not happening and I'm not given any new date on when that will happen.

Thanks,
Jim McGill

Looks like my empennage order was acknowledged May 25th.
 
Interesting. Your order was May 25, my RV-10 empennage order was June 7 (at that time, published estimate was 4 months to shipping). I have not ever heard from Vans. I called about a month ago, and they said they just had no idea when it might go to crating. Web status page says parts being produced.
 
Greg,

More good info. Vans actually offered to return my final payment that they took after telling me my -10 emp kit was ready for crating. I told them I don’t want my money back yet but would love to hear at least a ball park estimate for crating timeline. They won’t do that, and I elected to wait and see before doing anything else or asking for money back… I fully intently to build this plane when it gets here so I want them to take my money!

Hoping to get an update to general timelines soon, that’s all I’m after. I’m not doing any quickbuilds, so that communication was obviously welcomed but inapplicable to my order.

Patrick
 
Sorry for more hijacking ...
I too was prompted to pay in full back in November (because crating was imminent) and did so. Very odd that they're giving me estimates for the QB kits to follow, but nothing (for any of us) for the empennage kits. Greg and Patrick, I'll let you know here if and when my status changes.

Jim
 
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