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Is anyone using the LS1 successfully?

Cobrala

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Hello VAF Im a long time reader first time poster but I have a question. I see a disturbing trend with LS1 conversions for RV-10. Has anyone actually successfully completed and flown an LS1/LS2/LS7 etc for more than 200 hours? I would first like to say I am glad to know that the pilots and families are ok but all the LS conversions I have seen on this site and youtube have ended in emergencies; fire, power loss, off airport forced landings etc. Has anyone had long term success with this engine?
 
Welcome to VAF....

...Vincent,

A friend of mine will probably chime in here today, but yes, there are successful installs, tho' not many and I'm not sure if Todd had over 200 hours on his.

There are quite a few Belted-air powered RV's...and over 300 installs...it's the V-6 Chevy with a belt drive PSRU...search for either that or Jess Meyers,

Best,
 
Dave Sharples in Oz has had notable success with LS powered Pawnee glider tugs there. Pretty severe application. He was saving a lot of money over Lycoming 540 engines using both Ford V6 and LS1 V8 engines. Last I heard, they were applying to the Australian CAA to have an STC approved for these and planning to convert 20-30 aircraft over the next 3 years. http://public.fotki.com/freeflight/glidertug/

Nothing much wrong with the engines, it's all about good supporting systems design and maintenance to get reliability. With these, fuel and spark mapping is critically important as is the reliable supply of electrons and fuel.

Robinson has a few thousand hours on their conversions now too.

With regards to RVs, several -10s with LS power are soon to fly, I guess we'll have to see how these fare.
 
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Alright! Cool info guys!. I am mainly concerned with the LS series and I am VERY knowledgeable about these engines in that I have built a few and I drive one into the ground (My 2001 WS6 Trans Am) on a daily basis:) I worked my way threw flight school as a car mechanic. I wish to use an LS for my project but I have a few tricks up my sleeve.
 
Alright! Cool info guys!. I am mainly concerned with the LS series and I am VERY knowledgeable about these engines in that I have built a few and I drive one into the ground (My 2001 WS6 Trans Am) on a daily basis:) I worked my way threw flight school as a car mechanic. I wish to use an LS for my project but I have a few tricks up my sleeve.


The factory ECU has caused a couple gotchas when parameters got outside limits. Be very careful here. Robinson is using a reflashed OEM ECU with good success and they have the most flight experience I think. Using the factory heat range plugs has caused other piston failures so don't do that either. Watch crate engines bearing clearances as they have been a tad too tight for constant high rpm thrashing in off road applications and caused some spun bearings. Good gearbox choices are limited on the RV, can try EPI and Geared Drives. Todd had decent luck with Vesta after changes were done before he flew I think.

Go in with eyes wide open, the LS package will be heavier than the 540 and will probably not burn less fuel. Will likely have more power but some of that performance can be lost in cooling drag with poor radiator setups.

No reason it can't work well if you get all the details right as Robinson has proven but if you get something wrong, you might be added to the list of incidents...
 
Hello VAF Im a long time reader first time poster but I have a question. I see a disturbing trend with LS1 conversions for RV-10. Has anyone actually successfully completed and flown an LS1/LS2/LS7 etc for more than 200 hours? I would first like to say I am glad to know that the pilots and families are ok but all the LS conversions I have seen on this site and youtube have ended in emergencies; fire, power loss, off airport forced landings etc. Has anyone had long term success with this engine?

I had 165 hours on the engine and 150 hours in the air and my failure had nothing to do with FWF. I believe where my problem occurred was inside cockpit where we were plumbed just like everybody else but running at a much higher pressure. I wouldn't build an RV-10 without an LS2 engine in it.
 
The factory ECU has caused a couple gotchas when parameters got outside limits. Be very careful here. Robinson is using a reflashed OEM ECU with good success and they have the most flight experience I think. Using the factory heat range plugs has caused other piston failures so don't do that either. Watch crate engines bearing clearances as they have been a tad too tight for constant high rpm thrashing in off road applications and caused some spun bearings. Good gearbox choices are limited on the RV, can try EPI and Geared Drives. Todd had decent luck with Vesta after changes were done before he flew I think.

Go in with eyes wide open, the LS package will be heavier than the 540 and will probably not burn less fuel. Will likely have more power but some of that performance can be lost in cooling drag with poor radiator setups.

No reason it can't work well if you get all the details right as Robinson has proven but if you get something wrong, you might be added to the list of incidents...

Thanks for the info but Im pretty much familier with the issues you stated and even more with the LS1 as I have built performance engines. I use "LS1 edit" to reprogram the ECU or Bigstuff. Also, let me say that I would never use a crate LS1 or LS2 because like you said extended rpm and constant load on the engine can cause problems. I will absolutely do upgrades to the engine to increase its durability. I have a question for Todd. I thought I read on the NTSB that the fuel you had on board contained %10 alcohol, is that correct? If so I have heard from FAA AutoGas STC's and similer documents that the alcohol sometimes can cause issues with fuel systems in that it can corrode or dissolve rubber seals and o-rings etc. and that it binds to water in fuel tanks and can just overall cause problems. Maybe the alcohol contributed to the situation. By the way Todd, Im glad your ok and your project was really an inspiration for me to seriously consider auto conversions. I think Ive looked at you youtube videos 100 times!!
 
If you use the correct hoses and o-rings it isn't a problem at all. Cars survive every day with alcohol running in them. My LS2 ran the best on car gas. I tried to avoid 100LL as much as possible. We would run 87 Octane in it once in a while.
 
I got an E-mail back from Michael Shirley in Oz operating the LS1 powered Pawnee. They have 500 hours on it now. Very pleased with it. Only problems they have had have been with the exhaust system. Have applied some lessons learned and those now seem to be fixed.

This link might inspire you more from Robinson: http://www.v8aircraft.com/multimedia/image-galleries.html
 
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Weight and Balance for LS1 Installation

What does the LS1 do to the weight and balance? I'm also interested in what it does to the stall characteristics.
Thanks for any info you can provide.
 
If you're looking at putting this in a -10, it will weigh at least 100 pounds more than a 540 with cooling system and gearbox.

Reliable gearboxes with provisions for hydraulic C/S props are expensive (much more than the crate engine itself).

If you're not an engineer or gearhead, I wouldn't recommend you start down this path.

Most folks now are using LS3 or LS7 derivatives.
 
RV7 V8

Hello,

I have an LS1 RV7. I purchased recently. Im working with a few people on making it better but just enjoying it in the meantime. I have about 20 hours in it and it has almost 300 hours total time.
 
there's a guy

There is a guy in the Atlanta area that has the V8 in his -10...talked to him several years ago but lost track of him...
 
possible

Very possible. Like I said, I lost touch with him after we spoke.

If I remember the conversation, he said it took a long time to get the cooling system working. When I asked him if he would do it again, I remember a long pause...

Anyway, I was planning on going down that road but the owners of the PSRU company were in an accident, the units were not available, and I was ready for an engine. A quick call to Barrett and my choice was made. Very, Very happy with my Barrett engine!!!!
 
John Goodman

The RV-10 with the LS1 is (was) owned by John Goodman, user name johngoodman on this forum.

When I saw the airplane last year over at Synergy Air South, it had a Lycoming IO-540 in it.
 
Best place is NTSB reports

This wasn't appropriate.

Auto conversions aren't for all of us, myself included. However it's not appropriate to belittle those who really put "experiment" in experimental aviation.

I'm always hoping someone will come along with a real winner of an engine that knocks Lycoming off their throne. That doesn't happen if we don't encourage experimentation.
 
…and

These comments are also not limited to alternative engines. In fact, it seems anything off the beaten path is met with nay sayers imposing their views on what is the “right” way…
 
These comments are also not limited to alternative engines. In fact, it seems anything off the beaten path is met with nay sayers imposing their views on what is the “right” way…
I think this is something common in aviation, and probably due to the high risk of bad outcomes if something goes wrong.

I think some of you recall when the idea of a plastic airplane was "crazy", then Cirrus did it. Using a computer screen (EFIS) instead of a 6-pack was "way out there", and now everyone has an EFIS.

Any "alternative engine" has additional risks, and I believe that the people pointing them out are only trying to save someone from grief down the road. Once there are 100s or 1000s of an alternative engine flying, it no longer becomes an alternative engine, but becomes part of the status quo - like the Rotax.
 
So hatefull. I personally think NTSB reports are a great place to learn from. Whether it be from pilot error to a potential problem area to maybe add to a checklist to keep an eye on. Im not against alternative engines really would love and a turbine that would take hold and stick around. The new 520UL is really great to see as a Lycoming alternative. What I find really concerning is the countless same few reoccurring promlems areas with these auto conversions typically electrical ignition/ fuel injection or PSRU related. Bottomline IMHO NTSB reports are great tool we have to find, acknowledge and help solve problem areas in any aircraft or pilot I should have explained my thoughts more clearly in the first post. Apologies
 
I think this is something common in aviation, and probably due to the high risk of bad outcomes if something goes wrong.

I think some of you recall when the idea of a plastic airplane was "crazy", then Cirrus did it. Using a computer screen (EFIS) instead of a 6-pack was "way out there", and now everyone has an EFIS.

Any "alternative engine" has additional risks, and I believe that the people pointing them out are only trying to save someone from grief down the road. Once there are 100s or 1000s of an alternative engine flying, it no longer becomes an alternative engine, but becomes part of the status quo - like the Rotax.

Or even fuel injection vs carburetor...

Point is, it is the people who push the envelope that are able to change the status quo; if no one pushed the envelope, well, we wouldn't be where we are now...
 
Back on topic about LS engines. I have another customer who's been flying an LS powered aircraft for close to 20 years now. Last I heard, he had just over 1600 hours on it without major issues.
 
This wasn't appropriate.

Auto conversions aren't for all of us, myself included. However it's not appropriate to belittle those who really put "experiment" in experimental aviation.

I'm always hoping someone will come along with a real winner of an engine that knocks Lycoming off their throne. That doesn't happen if we don't encourage experimentation.

Well said....
 
Something new

I remember when I posted I would use Earth X (now over 5 years ago) you would have thought I was trying something very risky. Now these batteries have been certified and mine have 200 flawless hours on them. I know this is not a long time put a start. Evaluating risks and trying something new is what makes experimental builders "special".
 
I remember when I posted I would use Earth X (now over 5 years ago) you would have thought I was trying something very risky. Now these batteries have been certified and mine have 200 flawless hours on them. I know this is not a long time put a start. Evaluating risks and trying something new is what makes experimental builders "special".

Yep, been there, done that. And then I was supposed to die badly all over again when I installed the SDS in my airplane - still kicking, despite the predictions.
 
yep...

Yep, been there, done that. And then I was supposed to die badly all over again when I installed the SDS in my airplane - still kicking, despite the predictions.

Me too, I have dual EarthX batteries and EFII and I just did the bearing mod to my wheels...
 
Me too, I have dual EarthX batteries and EFII and I just did the bearing mod to my wheels...

Ohhh - that's gonna be the end of ya, for sure.

I have the bearing mod on my nosegear, haven't done the mains yet. Maybe when this current set of tires wears out...
 
Very possible. Like I said, I lost touch with him after we spoke.

If I remember the conversation, he said it took a long time to get the cooling system working. When I asked him if he would do it again, I remember a long pause...

Anyway, I was planning on going down that road but the owners of the PSRU company were in an accident, the units were not available, and I was ready for an engine. A quick call to Barrett and my choice was made. Very, Very happy with my Barrett engine!!!!

This aircraft is based at Falcon Field here in Peachtree City. It’s a partnership of four guys without the original owner and is indeed Lycoming powered now…
 
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