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Dazed and Confused in OSH

flyboy10

Member
I went to OSH thinking I knew what I wanted: an RV-8 kit...but knew this was the place to see, touch and feel other options. Now, I am more confused than ever.

I am wondering if anyone here looked at the Sling TSi and what you thought about it. Their plans and packaging are impressive. The build appears easier and less intimidating. I am unfamiliar with the pull rivet vs solid rivet arguments and welcome reasonable and objective comments.

At the moment, I am considering an RV-7, RV-10 or Sling TSi. I realize that's like saying you're considering apples or oranges for breakfast, but that's where I am...Lots of calculating left to do on actual costs, but at least now I am confident I have good numbers.
 
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Three completely different airplanes in terms of finished cost, speed, payload. Lots of info here and on Vans website regarding cost of the RVs. Keep in mind that ANY "improvement" you make to the plans adds $$$ and lots of time. I haven't priced a Sling. I think they are a good airplane (founders flew them around the world!) but check finished costs (likely higher than an RV, ships from South Africa), speed and payload (likely lower than an RV).
 
Coming to a Vans forum and asking about a Sling.. I think you know where this’ll go. Sounds like you really need to define your mission. Two seats or four? Aerobatic capability or family hauler? I’ve got lots of time in Rotax as well as Lycosaurus, and to me, even though the Rotax engine is a marvelous piece of machining and engineering, it’s still more “Toy” like than a muscular aircraft engine. Which would I rather have humming along over some inhospitable terrain? By far the tractor like thumping of 2400 RPM Lycoming over the 5000 rpm Rotax. And I like the Rotax, but I like the Lycoming more.

Pulled rivets vs solid? Take an EAA sheet metal class, learn how they work. To me, the solid rivets are so easy to install, remove, and look so good. They really feel more airplane like compared to “pop” rivets.

The RV-8 is still superior to all the other choices, just please don’t build the “a” model! Lol
 
Sling is really a great airplane. I have been watching them for years as the grew from a small booth to their present Sling Island. They are a great company. Several years back on their way home of EAA they brought three aircraft to my airport so a number of us could fly them.

They are outstanding to fly.

Keep in mind they are not the same as an RV. But they are not designed to be. They fill a different role.

Sling or RV you. You cannot go wrong. That said you will not find a larger builder community than the RV.
 
Sling is really a great airplane. I have been watching them for years as the grew from a small booth to their present Sling Island. They are a great company. Several years back on their way home of EAA they brought three aircraft to my airport so a number of us could fly them.

They are outstanding to fly.

Keep in mind they are not the same as an RV. But they are not designed to be. They fill a different role.

Sling or RV you. You cannot go wrong. That said you will not find a larger builder community than the RV.

Yeah the build community is a large consideration for sure. Lots of knowledge here. Right now, all the Sling TSi knowledge seems to be at the factory.
 
True Sling builder

If you want to see what it’s like to build a Sling Tsi, check out Evan Brunye’s site:
https://youtube.com/c/EvanBrunye
He’s the real deal, not a builder assist, like the other guy:rolleyes:

You may also want to check out Dark Aero’s development. They’re pretty close to getting it flying.

I checked out the above and went with an RV 7a (tip-up) which fit my mission.
 
If you want to see what it’s like to build a Sling Tsi, check out Evan Brunye’s site:
https://youtube.com/c/EvanBrunye
He’s the real deal, not a builder assist, like the other guy:rolleyes:

I did a couple of Tech Counselor visits with Evan. Very good guy. Mechanical Engineer background and now he is doing some build assist work and doing build videos for the factory. He went at the build full time and it went very quick.
 
Coming to a Vans forum and asking about a Sling.. I think you know where this’ll go. Sounds like you really need to define your mission. Two seats or four? Aerobatic capability or family hauler? I’ve got lots of time in Rotax as well as Lycosaurus, and to me, even though the Rotax engine is a marvelous piece of machining and engineering, it’s still more “Toy” like than a muscular aircraft engine. Which would I rather have humming along over some inhospitable terrain? By far the tractor like thumping of 2400 RPM Lycoming over the 5000 rpm Rotax. And I like the Rotax, but I like the Lycoming more.

Pulled rivets vs solid? Take an EAA sheet metal class, learn how they work. To me, the solid rivets are so easy to install, remove, and look so good. They really feel more airplane like compared to “pop” rivets.

The RV-8 is still superior to all the other choices, just please don’t build the “a” model! Lol

Another vote for the Lycoming here. Also any RV-10 will be at least 20 Knots faster that the sling (albeit at a higher fuel burn).
 
I sat in the Mojogrip TSI at OSH. I think the TSI is going to be the next plane I build after the -14 (unless the -15 comes out before then).

The 14 really satisfies my 90% mission of solo XC machine. Also it flies upside down.

But for my 10% mission of family hauler it would be nice to have 4 seats at 150 kts the -10 is just way too much plane for my needs. That's where I think the TSI fits for me.
 
Mojogrip gets things wrong, (sometimes dangerously so), quite frequently.

Yeah I tried to ask him basic questions about his opinion on the affect on the build times with the TSI using pop rivets instead of solid rivets and he pivoted into talking about build centers.

I wouldn't recommend that route for anyone that wants to be technically intimate with their plane.
 
Coming to a Vans forum and asking about a Sling.. I think you know where this’ll go.
.
.
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Pulled rivets vs solid? Take an EAA sheet metal class, learn how they work. To me, the solid rivets are so easy to install, remove, and look so good. They really feel more airplane like compared to “pop” rivets.

Agree with Tom.

Dale a Question, did you post a similar post on the Sling forum? What did they recommend?
 
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All I’ll say is one company post prices and clear cut information on their planes. The other you have to get a quote. That tells me they have to convince you why their more expensive plane is worth it. I like the Sling designs and I like Modern engines. Just had to beat an RV for price and performance.
 
I went to OSH thinking I knew what I wanted: an RV-8 kit...but knew this was the place to see, touch and feel other options. Now, I am more confused than ever.

I am wondering if anyone here looked at the Sling TSi and what you thought about it. Their plans and packaging are impressive. The build appears easier and less intimidating. I am unfamiliar with the pull rivet vs solid rivet arguments and welcome reasonable and objective comments.

At the moment, I am considering an RV-7, RV-10 or Sling TSi. I realize that's like saying you're considering apples or oranges for breakfast, but that's where I am...Lots of calculating left to do on actual costs, but at least now I am confident I have good numbers.
Well it is up to you. Different planes. The Sling is not and RV.

RV's are Sport Planes, with excellent control feel. RV's are FAST, aerobatic, with good short field/soft field ability and great range with decent payload.

I know only a little about the SLING but I am an RV "expert" building my first RV in early 90's. Sling uses a ROTAX which is not cheap and lower power. RV's mostly (except RV12) use Lycomings. The SLING seems like a conventional cruising plane not much different than other planes from Piper or Cessna or Bonanza. Yawn... :D You want to go fly, buy one of those flying already, cheaper. You will spend a lot of money building your custom Sling once you pay for all the parts that don't come with the kit.

You say less intimidating? Riveting is an EASY to learn skill with some special tools (rivet set, rivet gun, bucking bar, squeezer). You practice on scrap and learn. All kits involve Prop, Engine, Electrical, Fuel, Oil, Instrument Panel, Paint, Upholstery. If you want fast a Van QB will save some work. In the end it is up tp you. May be building is not for you? The SLING is not going to throw itself together with much less if any less work than an RV. The SLING from what I heard is a nice plane. Really up to you. Pick one and build it. No one can tell you what to choose. I can say Van's RV's have been around for 40 years, is still the only kit I would build. The support is excellent.
 
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I went to OSH thinking I knew what I wanted: an RV-8 kit...but knew this was the place to see, touch and feel other options. Now, I am more confused than ever.

I am wondering if anyone here looked at the Sling TSi and what you thought about it. Their plans and packaging are impressive. The build appears easier and less intimidating. I am unfamiliar with the pull rivet vs solid rivet arguments and welcome reasonable and objective comments.

At the moment, I am considering an RV-7, RV-10 or Sling TSi. I realize that's like saying you're considering apples or oranges for breakfast, but that's where I am...Lots of calculating left to do on actual costs, but at least now I am confident I have good numbers.

There are a lot of different airplanes and a lot of different ways to build airplanes.

All of the airplanes that you mentioned are fast first, then have other features.

The RV-7 is smaller, cheaper, etc. But only has limited baggage. I view this as a traveling or aerobatic airplane for 1-2 people with a small amount of baggage. This could be built as a tailwheel which I think makes it more useful for a camping airplane with grass strips.

The RV-10 is much larger and more expensive. You can use it as a 4 place or 2 place with a fair bit of kit, but me personally I wouldn't take an RV-10 into anything other than paved or very smooth grass strips.

The sling tries to be a an RV-10, with a smaller airplane, and less HP. At 2100lbs gross, I kind of doubt that this will ever be a true 4 seat airplane, more like a RV-14 (2+2) with seats instead of a huge baggage compartment.

So, what do you want to do? Cross Country/Aerobatics? I'd be looking at an RV-7 or RV-8. A family cross country airplane? RV-10. A camping airplane? Not an RV or an RV-14. If you want 4 seats, but can't swing an RV-10, then perhaps a sling.

For me? I live in the PNW and want to put my wife, mountain bike, cooler, huge tent, food, Bodhizafa, camera gear, and portable grill for a week in the airplane and then operate on anything that's more than 1500ft long and flat.

That means I'm not building an RV, and I'll be giving up 50mph, but from my perspective that means in a 3 hour leg I'll take 4 hours, but I'll always be able to do anything an RV can do, just takes more time. On the flip side, I doubt I could get my mountain bike in any RV, and if I could, it would be an RV-10, which won't go the places I want to go.
 
All I’ll say is one company post prices and clear cut information on their planes. The other you have to get a quote. That tells me they have to convince you why their more expensive plane is worth it. I like the Sling designs and I like Modern engines. Just had to beat an RV for price and performance.

Careful to pass judgment too quickly. Sling is manufactured in South Africa where costs are calculated in Rands. A few years ago the Rand was the most volatile currency in the world. Up AND down. So if someone wanted to pay you in Dollars or Euro and you had firm Dollar prices on your website, you could loose a heck of a lot of money if the Rand strengthened on you.

All I can say is Sling is a very good plane, with great people behind it. They flew that little plane around the world twice(!) and would've flown the new high wing to Oshkosh from SA too this year if it wasn't for COVID. I have an RV-7 and love my plane. But I'll give credit where credit is due.
 
RV vs a Sling

I asked the same question several years ago and decided I wanted both a RV8 and a Sling 4 TSI. Different planes, different missions. My RV8 is flying and I love it, I was the 3rd builder (started 1999) and it only took 20 years of which 5 were mine to finish it (it's actually not finished yet as it still needs paint).

My Sling TSi quick build kit construction is well underway. The Sling kit came absolutely complete, Leather interior with my choice of colors, Alodined metal for the quick build wing and fuselage (empennage is a kit with Alodine as an option), LED landing lights, pre wired wing and tail lighting, Garmin Pitot bracket installed and plumbed, Heated pitot in the kit, Garmin AP servo mounting brackets installed, I didn't select the factory wired instrument panel as I'm getting a custom panel from Mid West panel builders. I am getting the built in Aircraft Parachute option. and will be installing a FlyOnSpeed AOA system in the plane ( same as in my RV8). The published gross weight is based on the aircraft parachute selected for the plane. But the builders have flown the plane well beyond this weight. The planes overall kit quality is outstanding. The elevator counterweight bracket was the single most amazing example I have ever seen of multiple heavy duty factory formed aluminum parts that just fit together perfectly and the large rivets ( yes pulled rivets) just slipped into their holes without any match drilling!! All the published prices were exactly what I paid when I signed the contract for that part of the kit, but prices are moving around so last springs prices have been updated this summer. The TSi has flush pulled rivets on the leading edges of the wing and tail, and forward fuselage, and are a joy to install. I did a comparison a while back in rivets per foot on the wing spar area with my RV8, my Cherokee (it gets sold when the TSi is flying), and the TSi to get a rough gestimate of aircraft design strength. Cherokee-9, RV8-15, TSi-16/ rivets per foot. TSi wing was tested to 8 G's, is rated at 4 G's. No reason to believe the design is any way substandard.

Yes the Sling 4 TSi High Wing (nose wheel and tail dragger) are now in flight test and as mentioned would have been at Oshkosh but multiple countries Covid quarantine requirements made that impossible. Some 60 High Wing kits are already on order and Sling is working with a float manufacture. First HW kits should be out by next summer. High wing only looses 1 knot in cruise speed from the low wing and will have a 200 pound gross weight increase. To keep the weight under control the HW center fuselage is carbon fiber to provide the addition strength required for a strut less wing design without increasing the overall weight and impacting performance. It will definitely be a backcountry plane but isn't designed as a STOL aircraft. Several round the world flights with this plane are already being planned. Some 200+ TSi kits are either flying or being built and an electric version is being built in Swirtzeland now.

I had my own doubts about Rotax engines till I started flying the Sling 2 and 4 and I'm convinced now Rotax knows how to build aircraft engines. The AF flew Predator MQ1 drones with the 914 turbocharged Rotax for some 20 years, you could say this was a pretty good development period using this engine to push around a multi million dollar combat drone. I flew a Sling 4 with the 914 engine from Oshkosh back to Torrance several years ago and was blown away with its high density altitude performance in Wyoming with a fully loaded plane. Gross weight, 7,000 field elevation, 90+ degrees, 8k runway, plane was airborne in 3,000 feet. Sling folks at Torrance have flown the TSi to 30,000 feet, Rotax has tested the engine to 35,000 feet. I don't need to fly that high but the performance is there.

The TSi was built to maximize the capabilities of the new Rotax 915is engine, turbocharged and fuel injected with full fadec engine control, and with the whirlwind electric propeller ( takeoff/climb/cruise/manual) settings you will always get the most efficient engine performance and fuel burn from your selected power setting.
I did get the the external alternator option for the engine to make sure I always have plenty of electrical power but it doesn't add a load to the engine until it's needed. Engine has dual redundant Fadec systems.


send me a PM if you want any pictures of my build but there are plenty on line.
 
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