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Filtering the Spin from the Fact

wcalvert

Well Known Member
Maybe I'm the only being annoyed recently by this phenomenon, and maybe it's just inevitable in today's digital world, but the Spin and the Facts seem to be getting more and more difficult to sort out in some posts I see on the Forum.

Without naming names, mostly because this isn't a sort of fight I want to see started, some posters are clearly pushing their product, services or agenda outside of what I think was the original intent of this Forum.

I understand the need of business owners to market their craft, and I appreciate the innovation they produce, but where do the you draw the line between posting your observations, testing, and experiences from the Spin that preys on the insecurity of the builder/owner. There seems to be a drift from the "Experimental" concept of experimental ABA to the pseudo application of certified standards at every possible neurotic opportunity.

And like I wrote earlier, some of this info is useful. So how does the reader, especially the new builder/owner who has not had the time to sort the wheat from the chaff, determine who is pushing an agenda and who is just "one of the guys".

Some businesses do a good job of labeling their posts with their identity, others maybe not so much. In a world that has gone the way of spin, can we can do something here to make it a "cleaner" place to hang out?

Just my 2, and without agenda, how does the crowd view this??

Cheers
 
I like this forum and anybody that contributes to it. It is very informative and helpful. Yes, some of us tell about our wares and goods. To me that is good.
Never been offended by any of it.
Please don't turn this into some stupid government operation and I could go no and on and on. .
Thanks the moderators for their input
My three cents worth Art
 
Some businesses do a good job of labeling their posts with their identity, others maybe not so much. In a world that has gone the way of spin, can we can do something here to make it a "cleaner" place to hang out?

Actually, there is the Rule #1 about mid page here...

https://vansairforce.net/rules.htm

...and if you feel someone is in violation, Doug would probably appreciate a very short note with a link.
 
Wild,

I suspect my latest post in the thread below may have been the bridge too far for you? If so, I apologize.

We are an open source, non-profit, all-volunteer group and publish some of our work here (primarily on the safety page) when we think it can be of benefit to the discussion. We do believe a paradigm shift is necessary in GA: incorporating accurate, inexpensive AOA/energy cues and associated training resources similar to what we did in the military, as one potential method to reduce loss-of-control mishaps. So, in that regard, yes, it's pushing an (educational) agenda. I try to limit discussion factual information with enough background information to support, and my batting average for someone finding fault is 100%. It's a steep learning curve. Hopefully we go back and correct things when that happens, but I'm sure not to everyone's satisfaction.

Happy to discuss if you'd like. Feel free to reach out via PM for contact information (or grab it from our web site). And if I mis-read your intent, sorry for that too, no excuse.

v/r,

Vac
FlyONSPEED.org
 
Adding to Dan's comment about the rules, from the Forum Posting Rules:

"1. If you are not an advertiser on VAF, DO NOT display your business name, URL, phone number, mechanic credentials, etc. in your signature or posts, or promote your business through the VAF Forums, VAF email or Private Message system. "

Maybe what I'm saying is that if your ARE an advertiser on the Forum, you SHOULD acknowledge that in your postings ...

Guess I would call it transparency.

And since the rules also say that posts to be deleted 100% of the time are: "Posts complaining how the site is run. Email to me is the way to do that." from Forum Posting Rules. Maybe I'm complaining.

So this is my last comment ... maybe point made
 
Maybe I'm the only being annoyed recently by this phenomenon, and maybe it's just inevitable in today's digital world, but the Spin and the Facts seem to be getting more and more difficult to sort out in some posts I see on the Forum.

--- snip ---

Just my 2, and without agenda, how does the crowd view this??

Cheers

Bill:

Yes I have seen posts that are more confrontational here lately. Yes Spin is a good way of putting it.

It will be 24-years since first flight of my RV and almost 3,500 flying hours in it. I have not had an issue with sharing the good and the bad experiences that I have had but recently new guys without a lot of RV experience discounting my posts is pushing me to just UNPLUG and stop offering my experience.
 
pushing me to just UNPLUG and stop offering my experience.

Bingo, that's where I'm at. I've grown weary of people telling me that my engine cannot POSSIBLY work the way it's working - so I fly more and talk less. The rest of the world can either figure it out, or not.
 
Gary, Greg come on guys! Grow thicker skin! You are the assets don't pay attention to this new wave of internet experts. They come and go but we live here. We know each other. I got tons of flak over the years and survived they don't bother me any more :D
 
I fly a RV-12... There's a decal there, on the panel, that says "No Spins allowed". They mean it.

Ok, it's Friday, it's 5 o'clock somewhere, hope you don't let a rough day or some rough shod keyboard warriors run you off, OP. If you imbibe, go pour a stiff one, relax, be the duck and let the water run off your back.

Even though I fly the RV with the funny power plant in it... I've met the nicest group of aviators here, at my local airport, and at a few other airports. Yes, some are a little different than me, eccentric, smart as the dickens, heck, I'd swear some are meticulous, to the point of *nally retentive PIA's, but, that's what you need to be, to be an experimental builder. I live and learn from them, most of them have forgotten more aviation building tricks than I will ever learn.

Don't discount what the worth of your words are here. Carry on, they aren't falling on deaf ears, trust me on this.

As far as selling product... my own personal opinion is that you should pay for your advertising, not shill it here. That's been a personal pet peeve of mine the past 25 years, since electronic Bulletin Boards started showing up on 56k dial up.
 
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yep...

"Bingo, that's where I'm at. I've grown weary of people telling me that my engine cannot POSSIBLY work the way it's working"

SHACK!
 
In spite of some occasional "transgressions" and the odd bit of misinformation, this web site forum is still the very best aviation forum, period!

I have learned more from this forum that from all others combined.

Where else can you post a question, and get an expert answer in less that 24 hours? On just about any subject?

Thanks, DR, and all the moderators, and all the expert contributors!

I Ain't Leaving....!
 
…..Just my 2, and without agenda, how does the crowd view this??

Cheers

Respectfully, I disagree. I have learned more from this forum than I can ever repay, especially at the small yearly sum I contribute. I do have a list of posters from whom I read everything and a few from whom I read nothing. That judgement is up to each of us and time will tell whom to trust. Just because I don’t care for a particular product does not mean I cannot learn from others that appreciate the value.
Back in my engineering days when reading research papers I always started with the bibliography. It can help to calibrate any bias. I do the same here by looking at past posts. More importantly, I have made many new friends through this message board.
 
Gary, Greg come on guys! Grow thicker skin! You are the assets don't pay attention to this new wave of internet experts. They come and go but we live here. We know each other. I got tons of flak over the years and survived they don't bother me any more :D

. +1 !!
 
So how does the reader, especially the new builder/owner who has not had the time to sort the wheat from the chaff, determine who is pushing an agenda and who is just "one of the guys".

Returning to Bill's original question...

There is no shortcut, here or anywhere. Nor are there any guarantees. EAB is a natural field of dreams, full of promises and claims.

In the old days, information, true or not, largely flowed one way. You saw things in a magazine, or you talked to a vendor on the phone, or you sat down at a typewriter and wrote a letter. There was no easy way to question a claim, or compare notes with other builders.

Internet forums changed the landscape, for the better, notably in two areas. One, builders could compare notes about products and services. Two, claims became subject to peer review.

Yes, that brought new problems. Folks got upset when questioned. Vendors got upset when problems went public. Everyone had equal access to the keyboard, so lots of chaff got posted with the wheat. And of course, it became easy to complain about it all. None the less, it was a huge improvement, warts and all.

So, let's have a little perspective. If you're a new guy, understand no one is gonna vet the posts for you. You have to put in the time and do the critical thinking, and it will take a while. And yes, folks will question what other folks claim. It's a good thing, not some violation of a social contract.

In the world of EAB forums, VAF is arguably the best of the best. Be happy.
 
Thanks Dan

Dan, you saved me a bunch of typing and spell correcting.... with your summary.
Doug has created a long lasting resource. It is without compare in aviation.
Selling (or buying) something is completely optional. If the OP can't look away... I am baffled. And to those long time contributors, stick with the sensible readers and members. We need the expertise to be shared.
And thank you, to all. Good day...
 
Bingo, that's where I'm at. I've grown weary of people telling me that my engine cannot POSSIBLY work the way it's working - so I fly more and talk less. The rest of the world can either figure it out, or not.

Funny, I know several very successful RV drivers who have tweaked and eeked to maximum efficiency and performance who simply dont post anything anymore. The nearly universal reason: because they are tired of arguing with people who outright reject their results. These true experimenters/innovators will take the time to theorize, fabricate, test, and post results... And then spend the rest of the time on the forum defending those results. Ive experienced a bit of it myself and frankly, its exhausting. Its not a matter of having a thick skin - clearly I dont care what people think of me - but it is a major time suck. Id rather be out in the shop "doing stuff".

To the Op- just consider EVERYONE on the forum to be crazy and you will save yourself from being disappointed. Do not let anyone sway your opinion or drive your mood - its up to you to verify the information you see and act on it appropriately.
 
I was once told, at a very young age, “…don’t believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.” ...I guess that’s what drives my curiosity.

I look at this forum as a great STARTING point. I see something and think TO MYSELF “why’d they do it that way”:eek: and other time its, “why didn’t I think of that”.:rolleyes: If anything, reading on a particular topic or seeing something makes me want to delve in deeper to understand the ‘why’.

I’m working on my second build and still finding insights and inspiration from both new and established members of the RV community.
 
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I get it

Bill:

Yes I have seen posts that are more confrontational here lately. Yes Spin is a good way of putting it.

It will be 24-years since first flight of my RV and almost 3,500 flying hours in it. I have not had an issue with sharing the good and the bad experiences that I have had but recently new guys without a lot of RV experience discounting my posts is pushing me to just UNPLUG and stop offering my experience.

I'm not in your category of experience but I have felt exactly the same way. I started avoiding certain aviation forums for this reason (not Vans because hands down in is still the best).

Then I felt I was missing out so I went back to some of these forums with a new approach. If I have something valuable to add to a post - I write it. Then, I never go back to that post again. Just as with this post, I will never come back and read any following comments.

This approach has allowed me to share what knowledge or insights I might have without ever having to listen to those who might aggravate me.

I don't know if its the concept that I don't have "thick enough skin" or simply that I just prefer to avoid negativity in my life....
 
Dont Change it

Doug, it works great, love it, learned a lot from it, and still do. Don't change a thing.
MY 2 cents. :)
Ed
 
Safety: All things safety. Anything that promotes safety.

Like the header says 'anything that promotes Safety.'

Safety is one of the least rewarding fields of aviation. No attaboys for averting the mishaps that never happened. Lots of critique for raising issues one way or another. At the best of times it seems like you accomplish nothing, at worst you fail to prevent the thing you couldn't have seen coming.

Having worked in the hateful halls ;) of Aviation Safety I am very happy to see discussion and shared experience regardless of where it comes from.

'Safety is no Accident' Both a humorous quip and an insight, because Safety is a purposeful process that we do separate and apart from all our other aviation operations. The folks who fall back on the idea that 'Safety is a by product of Professionalism,' inadvertently foreshorten what Safety tries to do. All fact based post-ers here are contributing to a safer world. If Safety knowledge could somehow be tainted by where it came from then reviewing previous mishaps would be the worst thing we could do.
 
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