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Thoughts on RV9A Panel

PilotjohnS

Well Known Member
So here is my panel layout.

Feed back welcomed.

I don't like where the ELT is located, but I want to get it away from passenger who may fiddle with it in flight. Also, I want access to change the battery.
The AP is on the left because I dont want to switch off accidentally in flight and I dont plan to be using the power switch much. Parking brake is under panel on left side.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.
 

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Backup

It looks like a nice symmetrical layout, I'm assuming you are planning for IFR capability and not just VFR? The central stack gives priority to the AP controls at the top, which is a popular choice.
I'm curious though about the need for a G5, when there are two G3X screens, I've seen many people do it. If the intention is redundancy then wouldn't a second ADAHRS LRU give this?
 
G5 need

The G5 is there because it is a true back up with its own battery and internal ahdrs. If everything goes bad, it gets me to VFR weather ( we all plan with an out to VFR, dont we?) it has its own gps antenna too and doesnt rely on G3x rs232 data.

Buy oops i forgot a redundancy switch. Thanks for the comment
 
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I see you have a slider canopy. Recommend you carefully check clearance between your center stack radios and the center longitudinal rib between the firewall and the panel. This rib is structural to the forward fuselage and supports the roll bar forward brace. I know people have cut this rib, but then you have to reinforce it. I went to a lot of trouble to offset my radio stack for this reason, but I was using G3X portrait screens. Your screens don't allow this.
 
About what I did with my panel. I went with the bigger switches, so I had to go to the panel that is 2” lower to fit them in.
 

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Yes

I see you have a slider canopy. Recommend you carefully check clearance between your center stack radios and the center longitudinal rib between the firewall and the panel. This rib is structural to the forward fuselage and supports the roll bar forward brace. I know people have cut this rib, but then you have to reinforce it. I went to a lot of trouble to offset my radio stack for this reason, but I was using G3X portrait screens. Your screens don't allow this.

Yes The braces are a problem. This is the reason my switches are in the middle and not below the screens. Also, i am going to trim and reinforce the braces. The good news is the Garmin boxes are not that deep and wont reach to the roll bar support structure, so that wont be disturbed.

Sorry for the poor quality of the picture, thanks for understanding. It was late on the night before my midterm and I was going for partial credit. ( Why do bridges fall down? Because we give you partial credit- Berkeley Professor)
 
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I see you have a slider canopy. Recommend you carefully check clearance between your center stack radios and the center longitudinal rib between the firewall and the panel. This rib is structural to the forward fuselage and supports the roll bar forward brace. I know people have cut this rib, but then you have to reinforce it. I went to a lot of trouble to offset my radio stack for this reason, but I was using G3X portrait screens. Your screens don't allow this.

Vans and Garmin both publish 3D models which can be used to fully mock up the panel and work out these types of interference issues. I started the really rough mockup in the attached images using Fusion 360.
 

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Ha ha

Where are the heated electric seat switches?

Well if my wife ( or GIB) gets cold, that is what a fireplace is for at the destination.

Or just fly faster;i heard if We fly close to Vne, the pilot will sweat.
 
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I like your layout but I have to say I may be biased as it's almost identical to the panel I'm building for my 10. I put the ELT remote above the breakers and don't have the same switch layout as you. I installed dual ADAHRS and the G5. I was going with a single ADAHRS and the G5 but then thought I needed a tie breaker if those 2 didn't agree. Which single display would you believe in the event of a failure of one?
As an aside I laid everything out in 3D using my free version of Solidworks from EAA. Found that, in spite of the 3D model shpwing I was good, I had a small interference with one of the top panel ribs and the top of my GUD 460's. No big deal as I had cut out a template from 0.030 sheet to check the layout anyway. Just finishing my wiring terminations so I will be awhile before flying the finished product but so far I like it.
 
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Thanks

I like your layout but I have to say I may be biased as it's almost identical to the panel I'm building for my 10. I put the ELT remote above the breakers and don't have the same switch layout as you. I installed dual ADAHRS and the G5. I was going with a single ADAHRS and the G5 but then thought I needed a tie breaker if those 2 didn't agree. Which single display would you believe in the event of a failure of one?
As an aside I laid everything out in 3D using my free version of Solidworks from WAS. Found that, in spite of the 3D model say I g I was good, I had a small interference with one of the top panel ribs and the top of my GUD 460's. No big deal as I had cut out a template from 0.030 sheet to check the layout anyway. Just finishing my wiring terminations so I will be awhile before flying the finished product but so far I like it.
Thanks for the comment. I measured carefully the rib clearance but still am skeptical with the math. Before I cut the panel I am going to use the real GDU460 and check clearances. I worked really hard to reduce switch count so I had the option of moving the displays down if I had a clearance issue.
 
Make sure you think about the angles that are the support for the radio stack. On my panel I have a horizontal gap to allow for these. You may be able to hide them behind the display flange but you should definitely check.
 
I like it just the way it is. You obviously did a lot of research. I prefer a G5 backup over a dual GSU 25 LRU's. I happen to have dual GSU 25's and no G5 and I am definitely going to add a G5 (they didn't exist when my panel was planned and installed). Biggest reasons are the G5 can command the autopilot by itself, the G5 has it's own battery backup system, and the G5 can be an automatic reversionary ADHRS if the GSU goes down.

Of note is that for certified G3X installations the FAA does not allow two GSU 25 ADHRS units. I don't give that much relevance because little the FAA deems makes sense. But I do find it curious. Another example is the current Garmin SB for fuel senders with G3X systems, but only for type certified aircraft. Why not experimental? Because the FAA insisted on installing a resistor in the fuel sender line for the certified installs with resistive senders and that has caused problems we don't have. That's what I am talking about.

Cut a sample panel out of Lexan, masonite or thin sheet to check for interferences before making the final panel. 9 times out of 10 a builder who does this makes tweaks after seeing the whole thing together.
 
good ideas

Cut a sample panel out of Lexan, masonite or thin sheet to check for interferences before making the final panel. 9 times out of 10 a builder who does this makes tweaks after seeing the whole thing together.

This is a good idea. I think I will cut it out using a 1/4" plywood from Lowes. This will also allow me to place all the inner boxes, figure out the cut for the sub panel, plan all the wire runs, and as commented above, figure out the support brace for the GNX375
 
Great design

Looks great! Beautiful, symmetrical panel.

Personally, I'd simplify it and remove the GTR200 and audio panel. The 650 will do everything you need and clean up some space and save weight and $$$. No need for two radios in an RV, imo. The 650 will monitor a standby freq for formation flying, grabbing ATIS, etc.
 
Very nicely done!
* You'll seldom need the audio panel, so it can go down in the stack. You'll not want to be tuning radios that far down. Remember that vertical head motion is much more disorienting than lateral (for the IFR types).
* Couldn't tell what model GTN you have, but if you have a 650, you really don't need a second comm. I've been flying for five years with just the comm in the 650, and yeah, occasionally I'd like an extra frequency to pre-set but then I'd have to figure out a smart way to sequence when I'd efficiently use which radios.
* I'd love to play with the Garmin audio panel with voice recognition, but it's pricey, especially compared with the experimental audio panel.

I'm not on VAF much any more because somehow, something has abruptly decided that I can only see it right after a computer reset. When I posted for help on the topic, the posts were removed, so... good job on the panel design!

Ed
 
?ipad instead

I like using my iPad mini as my moving map backup. If I lost my alternator and battery I could still stay aware thru my ForeFlight app on the iPad with the portable Sentry ahars unit. Hours of portable power if lost alternator. Would rather have this than a duplicative garmin display.
 
Really Good start.

Alt Static Air ? I put mine where your AP switch is located.

I can't reach the far right corner of my panel with the harness snugged up. Maybe you can.

Who will operate the cabin heat? Going to have an oil cooler air control?

I suggest installation of a usb port on the left side for iPad mini or phone with FF. There are a lot of cords in the cockpit when in operational mode.

I have had no issue with ELT tampering. Passengers usually have more to look at than the panel.
 
Here is a picture of my panel, if about put the AP controller at the top in the middle you will not have any problems with the center longeron.
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[/url]E39DDA0F-4DF0-4AD0-9B8F-0885E664AB20 by crouch.timothy, on Flickr[/IMG]
 
like it

I like where you put the cabin heat and carb heat. maybe I will go there with alt air and cabin heat. Thanks for the pic.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like the screens are high; like you modified the support ribs??
 
It looks like a nice symmetrical layout, I'm assuming you are planning for IFR capability and not just VFR? The central stack gives priority to the AP controls at the top, which is a popular choice.
I'm curious though about the need for a G5, when there are two G3X screens, I've seen many people do it. If the intention is redundancy then wouldn't a second ADAHRS LRU give this?

I have two screen EFIS with primary and backup ADHRS. The system will recognize a "disagreement" between the ADAHRS units and ask the pilot to select the source that is functioning properly. If you're IMC, it would be pretty hard to tell which one was accurate. That is the primary reason I also have a stand alone source of attitude (G5). It serves as a "tie breaker" and would help determine which ADHRS was giving bogus info.
 
Final preliminary

So here is the final layout of my panel from the design team (me). I am handing it off to the prototype team ( also me).

I moved the master switch so I would not accidentally turn it off reaching for something else.
I combined the taxi and landing light switches (by using a taxi light relay) to spread the switches out for more space between.
The screens were lowered to avoid having to modify the top support ribs. I still have to modify the middle one to get the autopilot controller in at the top.
The gnx375 and com radio has to be at the bottom due to the middle support and the hole in the subpanel.
Added an ident and spare push button to the pilots side.
Alt air will be on the throttle quadrant
The ap disconnect and to/ ga button are located to avoid accidental activation when i am trying to use the display buttons

The production shop ( uh also me) might add a low voltage warning light and master caution above the pfd.

Lastly, yes I know: I need to mow the grass.
 

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Flap switch

The flap switch is typically located more to the left so that it can easily be reached from the throttle, like the example in post #24.

You want to be able to reach it quickly and confidently in a go-around and also when flying base/final and your eyes are mostly outside.
 
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Vans and Garmin both publish 3D models which can be used to fully mock up the panel and work out these types of interference issues. I started the really rough mockup in the attached images using Fusion 360.

Andy,
By the way, thanks for the mock up it really helps me figure out the center stack hole location.
 
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