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Short Field Landing RV-12

Piper J3

Well Known Member
The private strip where I’m based is 9/27 - 2100 x 75 turf. About fifteen years ago the neighbor to the east planted pine trees right on the threshold of 27. Nice guy. Now the trees have grown to about twenty feet and cause significant obstruction. +1 for the neighbor. I will often land from the opposite direction, which is a wide-open farm field, even with moderate tail-wind, to avoid the trees. Landing with a tailwind adds to relative speed at touchdown and longer ground roll. The technique works but it’s not desirable. Most often the prevailing wind is from the west so downwind landings have become the norm.

So, this year I have changed my mindset and developed a short-field landing technique that works quite well. I have been practicing stabilized approach speed of 63mph (55 KIAS) with full flaps and hands-off stab trim. The 12 does this extremely well. What I do now is start a full forward slip as I come over the pine trees and hold the slip well into the landing flare. I hold full rudder and balance opposite aileron to track centerline. The slip scrubs off speed and the increase vertical decent allows a shorter touchdown and rollout. Directional heading in the slip is about 15 degrees off-centerline. The 12 flies in ground effect really well because the low wing traps and compresses the air against the ground. As the landing flare starts to become nose-high I release rudder and neutralize aileron. The aircraft heading smoothly returns to centerline just before the main wheels touch the ground.

I will try to make a video from inside the cabin and maybe a drone video from outside to show what this technique looks like.
 
Spite - is there any other way? The house on the east end (27) was built 20 years ago. Guy planted pine trees as soon as he moved in. Now a house is being built on the west end right at the threshold to 09. Approach is flown within 50’ of back of house and 10’ above kid’s swing set in the backyard. Runway has 100-year easement through five different property owners. Go figure…





 
It sounds like you are at least dealing with the trees but I believe every time I did a run-up, it would be right next to he trees. I may even find a couple friends with radials to fly in for a visit. They may be a bit more interested in working with you.
 
Maybe a KitFox 4 is in your future with the 2 stroke Rotax motor for the neighbors appreciation.

I'd fit it with a nice custom expansion chamber for good horsepower and torque right where you need it at take off. ;)
 
Looks like you don't own enough property and counted on an easement for your airstrip.

What did the county say about your easement when they poured the foundation?

Expect a call from the FAA if you continue to fly that close to the neighbor's house.

It is sad that you might have your airstrip shut down just because your neighbor built HIS house on HIS property with a permit from the county.
The best time to fight these things is BEFORE the building starts.
 
Go to your hardware store and buy some 6 penny copper nails. In the dark of night, drive these nails into the pine trees on the end of the runway. Use a nail set to bury them below the bark. Use gloves, you know, COVID and all (fingerprints). Next year, you won’t have a problem on that end of the runway. I don’t know what you can do about the house/swingset on the other end. Maybe make him a pilot, so he understands planes buzzing his house.
 
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Hope those 20’ pine trees don’t grow like they would here in Florida. Pines for the pulpwood industry are our state crop. Before too many years they would be 75 FEEt TALL! Then what?
 
Always depends on who has the better lawyer, of course, but if you have an easement on the neighbor’s property you can probably force him to remove the trees.
 
FAR 91.119

FAR 91.119 Begins,

Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

Seems to me avoid unnecessary low passes....
 
What can you do

Is it feasible to relocate your strip further to the north, away from the house and trees? It will depend I guess on how much land is available, and the terms of the easement.
 
Piper J3 said:
About fifteen years ago the neighbor to the east planted pine trees right on the threshold of 27. Nice guy.
Maybe he was sick and tired of inconsiderate pilots blowing dust and dead grass into his yard? Maybe he wanted to stop the prevailing westerly winds you mentioned. Or maybe he doesn't like planes. Either way, sounds like your easement doesn't cover his yard or the trees would have been gone by now.

Scott Hersha said:
Go to your hardware store and buy some 6 penny copper nails. In the dark of night, drive these nails into the pine trees on the end of the runway. Use a nail set to bury them below the bark. Use gloves, you know, COVID and all (fingerprints). Next year, you won’t have a problem on that end of the runway.
I dunno what the laws are like over there, but we had someone try a similar stunt down here to improve their ocean views. Council responded by installing shipping containers there with a big sign about how some environmental vandal cut down native trees to improve their view. Could only have been 1 house. This is your airstrip, yes? Granted the trees aren't great, but that looks to be heaps of room for a 12. Even with a moderate downwind component.

The other thing to consider is if you do kill the trees, and do start taking off 09 & landing 27, your treeless neighbour will now have a valid noise complaint and that might work against you. It'll be obvious a pilot killed the trees, add in verifiable noise complaints and you could find the airstrip ordered closed.

Piper J3 said:
Approach is flown within 50’ of back of house and 10’ above kid’s swing set in the backyard. Runway has 100-year easement through five different property owners. Go figure…
Is the easement for the runway or does it include the approaches too? From what you've said it doesn't sound like it covers the splay.

Mind you, even if it did, if you are flying within 10' of a kids swing set, I hope your insurance is paid up in the event of an accident. Flying within 50' of someone totally unconnected with aviation is not smart, a bit of wind shear, or aircraft problem and you will be in a world of hurt. And flying 3m over a kids swing set you know is there is downright stupid - no matter how long you've been flying out of there.

EDIT: Just found this video of you landing. If I lived there, you would likely already be shut down. That low over private property - when it unconnected with the airfield is bordering on recklessness IMHO. What if one of their kids decides it'll be fun to chuck a stick at you as you pass overhead or other stupid things young kids do.

I sympathise with your predicament, I do. I fly out of a similar strip, short, trees, disliked by the neighbours, but I'd never consider that acceptable.
 
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You discovered slipping to land? Cub pilots do that too. :D

Correct, I owned a '46 J3-CUB for 23 years. The CUB would really get crooked in the air with full slip and come down like an elevator.

I traded the CUB for the 12 and never looked back. I thought I'd miss the CUB, but to be honest, if someone offered me a ride now I'd probably decline.

Like Paul Newman said... "Why fool around with hamburger when you have steak at home?”
 
Looks like quite a few other T-Hangars on site as well (north side of runway), other pilots/aircraft based there? I'd also question moving the runway to north (of T hangars). But honestly I think your neighbors would still plant more trees at the thresholds just to try to shut down the runway to nuisance, even if it was moved.

I hope you prevail. Too many airstrips get shut down this way.
 
Talk?

It appears there hasn't been much dialog going on between you or either neighbor. Is this something that started with the previous owner of your property? Rather than assuming that the people on either end are jerks, perhaps it might be worthwhile to sit down and try to work something out. Are there any reasonable options - you might want to ask. It's probably a bit late with the newer home with young kids (if I were him, I'd look at planting a few substantial trees to provide some two way protection for my family).

At a previous home, I had several very large trees adjacent to one of the property lines. A neighbor put in a large pool and found that there was an awful lot of debris coming off my trees. Solution was for him to pay for removal and me for cleanup. Oh yeah, and we got to use his pool.

If the tree guy isn't willing to let you take them down (and you to use a single direction in and out), your best move going forward might be to transition to rotary wing. Unfortunately, many of the airports that I used in the early years of flying are now gone. Saying they were "here first" didn't work, especially when you eventually have civilian targets on both ends of the runway.
I wish you luck, but if you haven't at least held out an olive branch, there really isn't much hope.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
Terry is right! Forget lawyers and killing trees and stressing yourself out over this. Talk to the neighbor and come up with a solution you're both ok with.
That guy can't let the kids out to play cause an airplane might kill them. He's probably just as frustrated as you.
I live in an airpark, love seeing planes around, but wouldn't like people flying over my yard that low.

One thing that you could try is to fly an overhead break to landing. Continuously descending downwind to final turn that keeps you mostly on your property. You do need to have a solid AOA for proper energy management. Airspeed alone won't do it. AOA will let you slow down even more when you are flying by yourself below gross weight. Lose another 5kts and you'll need a lot less runway.

Lenny

Rather than assuming that the people on either end are jerks, perhaps it might be worthwhile to sit down and try to work something out.
 
Mark a displaced threshold 500 feet from each end. Use it every time and just avoid the conflict. That still leaves you 1700 feet to land or 3 times the required distance for a RV12.
G
 
Mark a displaced threshold 500 feet from each end. Use it every time and just avoid the conflict. That still leaves you 1700 feet to land or 3 times the required distance for a RV12.
G

Well, really more like 1600 feet. And it's still plenty. Consider a short soft field landing.... Steep slow approach, ending with a deep flare. The video looks like you are flying it on.
 
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I Thought he said his runway was 2200 feet. It’s actually 2100 feet so he would have 1600 feet available with the thresholds displaced 500 feet.
G
 
AOA can be added for $10 worth of parts. Audio can be disabled if desired.
Just display the chevrons on the EFIS.
 
Update... I said I would post a video of RV-12 using full flaps and forward slip as a technique for short field landing. Wind was 10 knots straight down the runway so I held a little extra speed on short final. Slip starts after pine trees are cleared. The slip with full right rudder is held well into the landing flare and I still landed longer than I would have liked. Any excess speed adds significantly to float in ground effect. This landing was after 3-hour cross country flight and I was tired and wanted to get on the ground.

I'll make another video with fully stabilized approach and better control of airspeed.

https://youtu.be/CvsuBcV5IZs
 
Looks like the lawn chairs are set up to view the runway.
Maybe the new neighbour likes watching planes and if he is talked to maybe he would like a flight and some info on homebuilding and basing it at your field.
 
Looks like the lawn chairs are set up to view the runway.
Maybe the new neighbour likes watching planes and if he is talked to maybe he would like a flight and some info on homebuilding and basing it at your field.

Actually, I think that are having a house-warming today. Relatives and friends probably silently wondering why he built house at end of a runway...
 
Actually, I think that are having a house-warming today. Relatives and friends probably silently wondering why he built house at end of a runway...
Probably not. They're probably telling him that crazy nut job with the airplane is a menace and he should get his lawyer to shut down the runway. It just seems to be the way most people think.

When my wife and I look at houses, we look at what's around them. Noisy streets, noisy businesses, race tracks, garbage dumps, neighbors with unfortunate choices of "yard art", etc. I can't figure out why, but a lot of people seem to just buy something and then try to force the rest of the world to rearrange itself to suit them.
 
Another option

Time to invite all Ultralights, like we see at OSH, to come and fly early and late flights each day, when the WX is good, at this Ohio field so that the neighbors get a good appreciation for Aviation mixed with a Touch of Noise! Another Death of an American Airfield called Progress!
 
This reminds me of a situation years ago in Florida. KSUA, Whitman field has several runways and was a training field back in WWII. Jupiter borders the field and is a shay shay, upscale neighborhood. I think Burt Reynolds lived there.

Well, a couple bought a small mansion which happened to be at the end of one of Whitman’s runways. Wasn’t long after moving in he realized his mistake and promptly sued to have the runway shut. The case dragged on and, as I recall, the judge found in favor of the airport. He, the judge, basically admonished the new home owner and the realtor for not doing their homeowner prior to the purchase. The realtor should have disclosed the issue to the purchaser. The judge stated the airport was there well before the community was developed and once developed those building were well aware of the location of the airport and its runways.

Not sure that reasoning would hold up in these times...
 
KVNY was built long before my townhouse was built. Townhouse was built back in 1978.

There wasn't any jet traffic back then, when I bought the townhouse. Completely different story today. Jets, turbo props, you name it.

Only one model that is offensive on the noise scale, the Piaggio P180 Avanti pusher canard. Noise it makes when wound up penetrates everywhere inside my home.

That, and a flight of Falcon F-16's in formation, no other roar that I've ever heard, like them.

I have to wonder if the neighbors violated FAA regulations, building a structure so close to a runway?
 
KVNY was built long before my townhouse was built. Townhouse was built back in 1978. There wasn't any jet traffic back then, when I bought the townhouse. Completely different story today. Jets, turbo props, you name it.

Maybe not as many jets as now, there have been jets at Van Nuys since the 50's.
The Air National guard was stationed at KVNY in the 1950's with F-86 jets.
Clay Lacy Aviation, the first jet charter company was started at KVNY in 1968. In 1971 Van Nuys was the busiest GA airport in the nation.
 
Maybe not as many jets as now, there have been jets at Van Nuys since the 50's.
The Air National guard was stationed at KVNY in the 1950's with F-86 jets.
Clay Lacy Aviation, the first jet charter company was started at KVNY in 1968. In 1971 Van Nuys was the busiest GA airport in the nation.

I should rephrase, jet traffic of significant levels. In the 1970's, smog was so bad in the Valley that 3 to 6 mile visibility was a problem. There were tons of Cessna's, Mooneys, Pipers, Beechcraft buzzing around in the skies. Not so much, nowadays. Most of the smaller aircraft seem to have gone somewhere else. General Aviation has kind of died around here, compared to the amount of experimental aircraft.

The amount of jet traffic that flies in to VNY from 12:45 to 1:30 AM, is obscene, at times. A flight every 2-3 minutes landing, all jet traffic. Usually during times when a vote is coming up on the ballot. Fact, I am not making that up.
 
The realtor should have disclosed the issue to the purchaser. The judge stated the airport was there well before the community was developed and once developed those building were well aware of the location of the airport and its runways.

When I bought my home in Irvine, California, back in the 1980s, every homeowner in the neighborhood had to sign a form acknowledging they were aware that Marine Corps Air Station El Toro (jets), Marine Corps Air Station Tustin (helicopters) and John Wayne Airport (airline and GA) were all nearby, and we couldn't sue the developer claiming we weren't aware that we would sometimes hear aircraft noise. Needless to say, I had no problem signing that form!
 
The other option would be the nice guy angle, offer them a plane ride, show them around the airport. I would first attempt to be the nice neighbor before I took drastic measures.
 
Update…. A lot of good suggestions on how to deal with close neighbors. The truth is that neither neighbor is doing any complaining (yet). In fact, there is also a RC model airplane flying club located at the west end of the runway and we all coexist. The RC guys even fly larger scale airplanes with chainsaw engines so I would think that would be the main rub. RC is continuous from noon to dusk with full-scale only once in a while…
 
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