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Lightspeed Ignition and p Mag

cardinalflier

Well Known Member
My RV6 that i purchased about one year ago has one Lightspeed electronic ignition and one mag. The mag has close to 400 hours and my plan was to send in the mag for an IRAN when it reached 500 hours. I spoke with Klaus at Lightspeed and learned that my Lightspeed model/version is the first one he offered, and was made in about 1997. My RV was completed in1998. Klaus was surprised that my LS was still working. NOTHING on the newer Lightspeed models is interchangable with my older LS. So, what do you folks think of replacing the mag with a P Mag and then replacing the LS with a second P Mag when/if the older LS quits. Bruce Estes
 
I know of one RV-8 flying with a Lightspeed on one side and a pMag on the other. It started life with dual Lightspeeds but after a series of failures and no help from Klaus the bad Lightspeed was replaced with a pMag. The plan is to replace the second Lightspeed when it dies with another pMag.

Cutting to the chase - the two ignitions have similar advance curves so they play well together.

My recommendation - pull the mag and the Lightspeed now and install dual pMags. you will never regret doing so and you will not have the Lightspeed hanging over your head.

Carl
 
I agree with Carl. Based on my own experience (100+ hrs now on Pmags) and what I've read here on VAF over the years, Pmags are the way to go.

Easy install and timing setup/check.
Great factory support (none needed other than answering some basic questions)
They just work!

Bevan
Dual 114 Pmags
 
To answer your question, the Light Speed and P-mag will work together just fine.

Download the P-mag manual and make sure you understand how to wire it and follow the manual exactly. Remember, this is your ignition you are playing with.

If you can swing the cost, it is always better to run identical ignitions rather than a split system. The reason is that the timing curves are different (I have no idea how different they are.), which means the first one to light the fuel-air charge will start it burning and the lagging ignition sparks on smoke.

If I were in your plane, I would probably buy a P-mag, pullable circuit breaker, wire, etc. and put it on the shelf. Then, whichever ignition dies, replace it with the P-mag.

If you replace your standard mag, I'll bet you that the LS will die and if you replace the LS, it will probably be the mag that dies. At least that is the way things work for me.
 
I agree with others that the P-Mag is a fantastic product. Just the fact that there is no box to mount is enough for me. My recommendation, pull the light speed and install the P-Mag, then give the Mag another 100 hours and slap in another P-Mag
 
I spoke with Klaus at Lightspeed and learned that my Lightspeed model/version is the first one he offered, and was made in about 1997. My RV was completed in1998. Klaus was surprised that my LS was still wouking

Is your Lightspeed the one with the small box and the MSD ignition? That preceded the Plasma they and are still in use. I've used his original one, his Plasma and his Plasma III. Can't say i can detect any difference in engine performance.
 
I've been researching PMags; currently have LASAR working and been ok for years but now that i have everything stripped and opened up for my conditional inspection i am just considering taking the entire system out and put two PMags.

This thread speaks highly of PMags. Appreciate some feedback on these questions.

How much higher CHT should i expect? My highest currently running 310 degrees and like to keep it around that (IO-360). I am assuming as probably LASAR (Hopefully) is also using proper advance timing hence not much more heat could be generated by switching to PMags.

Would a standard profile be ok or any suggestion for IO-360? LASAR did not publish their timing profile hence i may need experimentation to get PMags close to that.

Thanks

Rob
 
Lightspeed

I have had nothing but perfect service from my Plasma II installed in 2001 with over 2000 hours on it. It has never even been removed from the aircraft!

I liked it so much, I replaced a Bendix mag on the IO-550 in my Lancair with a Plasma III last April.

Two RV's on my local field started with two new P-Mags and had problems. They both replaced the P-Mags with dual Slick Mags after fooling around with the P-Mags and never getting reliable operation.

Based personal experience of over 2400 hours in my two homebuilts I recommend: One Bendix mag and one Lightspeed.

Anyone with 2000+ hours on a P-Mag please chime in.

Bruce, I'd have the IRAN done on your mag in 100 hours and carry on.

Best,
 
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I have had nothing but perfect service from my Plasma II installed in 2001 with over 2000 hours on it. It has never even been removed from the aircraft!

I liked it so much, I replaced a Bendix mag on the IO-550 in my Lancair with a Plasma III last April.

Two RV's on my local field started with two new P-Mags and had problems. They both replaced the P-Mags with dual Slick Mags after fooling around with the P-Mags and never getting reliable operation.

Based personal experience of over 2400 hours in my two homebuilts I recommend: One Bendix mag and one Lightspeed.

Anyone with 2000+ hours on a P-Mag please chime in.

Bruce, I'd have the IRAN done on your mag in 100 hours and carry on.

Best,

Yep, 4 Pmag failures in 300 hrs is my experience, including two in flight shut downs. Put at least one mag and on it.
Tim Andres
 
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Was the failure investigated? Electronics? Mechanical? Are those the latest revision or one of those earlier models?

Thanks

Rob
 
Was the failure investigated? Electronics? Mechanical? Are those the latest revision or one of those earlier models?

Thanks

Rob

What wasn't stated was the age of the P-mags.

Early on, E-mag (E-mag is the company, P-mag is the product) had some hardware and software issues with the P-mags, all of which I believe have been resolved.

The early P-mags used epoxy to retain the trigger magnet. As you can imagine, the epoxy would give up and the P-mags would loose their timing.

Then there were some software issues that could cause lost timing issues. Version 40 seems to have stopped these issues.

Since V40 came out, I have not heard of any issues with the P-mags that are installed properly. This does not count the occasional infant mortality that also strikes standard mags.

I have followed the P-mag development fairly closely since I am a principle in the EICommander, a monitor and control module for the P-mags.
 
...
Anyone with 2000+ hours on a P-Mag please chime in.
...
Anyone with 2000+ hours on their standard mags, please chime in.

At OSH last summer I spoke to an FAA guy who is in the certification group and he told me that they would not approve a traditional mag today because they are not reliable enough.
 
Anyone with 2000+ hours on their standard mags, please chime in.

At OSH last summer I spoke to an FAA guy who is in the certification group and he told me that they would not approve a traditional mag today because they are not reliable enough.


Chiming in. I guess either I am lucky or they are building a reliable product since 2008. Nearing 3K hours on standard Slicks without a hiccup.
 
Chiming in. I guess either I am lucky or they are building a reliable product since 2008. Nearing 3K hours on standard Slicks without a hiccup.

It's probably because you never shut your engine down. Once they started spinning, they never stopped.

I wish you many more trouble free hours Vlad!
 
Interesting Opinions:
p Mags have had a history of some unsatisfied customers, at least when they first came out. A plane 2 hangars down from me is no longer running p Mags due to the problems he had initially.
Lightspeed EIs have been continually improved over the life of the product.
However, it's hardly fair to criticize anyones' current product when you may be running, or had, an obsolete version. Why does anyone upgrade their car or cell phone?
I have run LEIs since 1993 without any problems, but I still upgraded along the way and currently run 2 plasma III ignitions driving an SDS EFI. All work perfect.
Bobs' post #16 on 11-16-2016 referring to a thread on the "EI question" is very good.
The question should be; "what are you trying to achieve and how do you get there."
 
Anyone with 2000+ hours on a P-Mag please chime in.

I'm getting there! I have 1350 hours on my dual Pmags; mine are early 113 series from 2006. The first 250-ish hours were pretty rough, lotta issues with rough running and general weirdness. After several trips back to the shop and one replaced for just being a lemon, they are running fine with no issues over the last 1100+ hours. I like 'em.
 
Consider the SDS CPI system. No moving parts, conventional inductive spark, remote cool-spot electronics, and full control of the timing values, including pilot switchable choice of two pre-set curves. It means you can optimize one for operation at best power, and another for LOP cruise. That's a big deal.

P-mag vs Lightspeed vs mags? Way too much of the conversation revolves around fan club loyalty ("My team, win or lose!") rather than any serious discussion of technical issues.
 
One Slick, one P-Mag here. When the Slick is ready for its 500 hour inspection it will disappear in favor of either another P-mag or the SDS CPI system.

I would have to mount the CPI controller out of sight as I just can't stand the color of its control head! (How's that for a serious discussion of the technical issues! *wink* )
 
The appearance of the CPI brain box does not exatly allign with typical aviation styling, I'll give you that, but fortunately it does not need to be accessed once programmed. You could lock down the settings and then bury it behind the panel if desired. There are plenty of clever ways to accomodate the occasional fiddling by placing behind Ipads, removable or swing down panels, however.
 
Way too much of the conversation revolves around fan club loyalty ("My team, win or lose!") rather than any serious discussion of technical issues.

Empirical data on units in service is, IMHO, the most telling discussion we can have. Thanks, John Bixby, for your 1350 hour PMAG service review.

Lets hear from more folks using non-traditional ignition systems with at least 1000 hours in service.
 
Lightspeed Ignition and a p Mag

I have a Lightspeed Plasma II and an impulse mag. Had the Mag gone thru about 650 hours and sent the Lightspeed box back to Klaus at about 900 hours for updating. I thought I had a timing problem with it causing High CHTs. Turns out that I set the mag timing wrong. Operator error, nothing wrong with the Lightspeed but got a fresh updated components and all back together with almost 1050 hours total now. Works fine.
 
Started with a Lightspeed Plasma II (crank trigger) and a Slick mag. Mag started having problems around 800 hours, Lightspeed has been trouble free for over 1000 hours.
 
Over 4,500 hours with one LSE and one Slick, on 3 homebuilts, over the last 33 years. Some early LSE Hall Effect module issues (mechanical), but zero issues with direct crank trigger systems. Slicks were used instead of Bendix for form/size factors.

I endorse one LSE Plasma and one Bendix mag.
 
Lightspeed Plasma ignitions

I have operated my airplanes (RV6 and RV10) with dual Plasma III ignitions since 2003 and had no difficulties and enjoyed great performance. Since then I have installed or assist in the installation of more than six dual Plasma systems. One of the systems was an original (old/used) dual Plasma system in an RV6 that belonged to a friend. It has worked perfectly. Klaus has continuously made improvements in his ignitions. He uses high quality electronics engineered for his systems and the units are closely inspected before being sold to a customer. The basic advantage comes from the use of a direct crankshaft position trigger for the ignition although he also sells a high-quality Hall effect sensor system. His system is designed from the start for use in an aircraft: Reliable, light weight and low energy draw.
Two enemies of electronics are heat and vibration. When an ignition is installed in the back of a crankcase the problems are: Accurate crankshaft position compromised by gear lash; vibration from the power impulses, and engine heat (max oil temp 245 degrees typical). By design the Plasma system is superior on all these points.
There are long distance fuel efficiency records held by planes that use Plasma ignitions, the CAF? Foundation Triaviathon Champion RV4 (Dave Anders) used Plasma ignitions. At the Reno Air Races Sport Class the high-performance racers use dual Plasma III systems. Maybe some will begin to show up with P mags and then there will be a comparison.
FWIW: It is imperative that the installation instructions be followed exactly. Creative wiring solutions should be avoided. The units are extremely well constructed of high quality components for maximum reliability. Likewise, all wiring, switches and circuit breakers should be high quality installed using good workmanship.
 
Electronic Ignitions at Reno

At the Reno Air Races Sport Class the high-performance racers use dual Plasma III systems. Maybe some will begin to show up with P mags and then there will be a comparison.

At Reno this year, one of the fastest 4 cylinder RV's as well as the fastest naturally aspirated 4 cylinder RV (no blower or nitrous) were both running only mags! Electronic ignitions can be great for improving cruise efficiency due to the ability to advance the timing at low manifold pressures or lean mixtures, but they arguably offer very minimal performance benefit at high power settings.

Skylor
RV-8
 
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... Klaus has continuously made improvements in his ignitions. He uses high quality electronics engineered for his systems and the units are closely inspected before being sold to a customer. The basic advantage comes from the use of a direct crankshaft position trigger for the ignition although he also sells a high-quality Hall effect sensor system. His system is designed from the start for use in an aircraft: Reliable, light weight and low energy draw.

This is exactly opposite of my experience with six Lightspeed II+ ignitions installs and Klaus' after the sale support. The "closely inspected" comment is of particular note. All six units arrived with cold solder joints that failed on the provided connectors, and all six units had a board problem that I ended up fixing in the field for Klaus. He never even said thank you for finding his production problem for him. The kicker was when the Hall Effect sensor seals started leaking and the only option to replace the $0.50 seal was to send Klaus the unit and pay is ~$200 service charge - Klaus would not sell me the repair part for his own unit.

The units were removed at the 300 hour point after repeated failures (two in flight hard failures) and replaced with pMags. The pMags have been flawless for ~600 hours.

My only caveat - my experience with LightSpeed products is several years old at this point.

Carl
 
LSE plasma III working great

Glasair Sportsman with IO-360. I installed dual Plasma III with iridium spark plugs about 200 hours ago. No issues at all. More power, better fuel flow, starts beautifully. Support from Klaus has been great. This thread was frankly surprising. I hope my limited experience helps the discussion.
 
At Reno this year, one of the fastest 4 cylinder RV's as well as the fastest naturally aspirated 4 cylinder RV (no blower or nitrous) were both running only mags! Electronic ignitions can be great for improving cruise efficiency due to the ability to advance the timing at low manifold pressures or lean mixtures, but they arguably offer very minimal performance benefit at high power settings.

Skylor
RV-8
This is not surprising at all. If you spend an hour in the pattern doing touch and goes with a standard mag, switch to any electronic ignition, and do the same, your fuel burn should be close to the same. The reason is the engine spends most of its time at high power settings where the electronic ignition will set the timing at or close to the base timing value, 25* BTC for an 8.5:1 parallel valve Lycoming.

It is only up high where an electronic ignition can advance the timing and you can lean out the mixture does your fuel burn improve over that of a standard mag.
 
Plasma III

The no. of years and the no. of units sold by Lightspeed is pretty large with a global deployment of units, overall the units have millions of hours flown with very reliable service. Looking at the history and the care the units have been made with and continuously upgraded shows in the performance in reliability many have had. Nothing is perfect, things break (that's why we have 2 ignitions/Mags)
The Lightspeed works really well , saves fuel and makes hot starts on a FI Lycoming super easy (less of the dancing hands) .

Peter
RV6
 
I have 280 hrs on my P mag E mag set up with ZERO issues so far. I do plan on replacing my e mag with a P mag this annual for obvious reasons
 
Best Choice E.mag ( in my opinion )

Having looked at the options offered in the market for Emags, I am getting a PMag for my 6A here in the UK as PMag gives you control over the advance angle compared to other products that keep their chart secret!. There is even an iPad application that interfaces with the PMag, I am in the queue to get one once released, in fact they have released a video explaining the system which is very interesting!

http://www.enginebridge.com
 
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I've been using dual P-mags in my RV-7 Lycoming IO360 with 10.5:1 pistons since 2011. At first I was having problems with one of them failing on me every six months or so. Turns out I was frying the mag's electronics. The P-mag folks asked me about my installation and recommend installing a couple small tubes to direct cooling air directly onto the P-mags. It's been more than five years since I've had a P-mag quit on me. Whether I'm running lean of peak on a cross-country, reduced power during formation flights, or max power on take-off, they deliver.
 
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