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Scheduled Ramp Check for Me!

rockwoodrv9

Well Known Member
Patron
So, I may have gotten myself into more than I bargained for.

I just flew my plane from Idaho to Michigan after phase 1 was flown off there. I want to get my Repairman Certificate so I sent an email to the local FSDO. I got a nice reply saying he would come to my hangar to meet me and check my plane and my logs - pictures. We scheduled a time and he said - maybe he could do a Ramp Check while he was there.

Well, I didnt bargain for that but I suppose it wont be a big deal since he will be checking out my plane anyway.

I am still a student pilot and have no experience with this so any hints will be appreciated!

I also want to thank Mel for sending me the form and a list of what to have ready for my Repairman Certificate.
 

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Make sure you have all the ARROW documents. Have the AW cert displayed. Make sure you have your medical cert and student pilot cert. Don't show him your logbook. He can request to see it, but you don't have to have it with you. Don't answer questions he hasn't asked.

Treat it like a speeding ticket - don't admit to speeding and don't tell him about the body in the trunk. ;-)

Ed Holyoke
 
Make sure you have all the ARROW documents. Have the AW cert displayed. Make sure you have your medical cert and student pilot cert. Don't show him your logbook. He can request to see it, but you don't have to have it with you. Don't answer questions he hasn't asked.

Treat it like a speeding ticket - don't admit to speeding and don't tell him about the body in the trunk. ;-)

Ed Holyoke

Don't forget about having your Operating Limitations in plane. Ensure that you have properly signed off Phase 1 in your logbook as well.
 
Cross country

I would be concerned that questions will be asked about the trip from Idaho to MI. If you were pilot in command were you signed off for the flight by your instructor?? Pretty unusual situation but I would be surprised if this goes well.
 
I would be concerned that questions will be asked about the trip from Idaho to MI. If you were pilot in command were you signed off for the flight by your instructor?? Pretty unusual situation but I would be surprised if this goes well.
I wasnt PIC. I was just in the plane! I did learn a LOT about the G3x system and all I can say is "Wow".
 
Thats a good looking 9A, I just got my repairman cert. today through the Grand Rapids Mi FSDO, it was really easy and the FSDO inspector was a pleasure to work with her.
I'm not sure about the ramp check but like others said make sure you have all your paperwork in order.
 
Thats a good looking 9A, I just got my repairman cert. today through the Grand Rapids Mi FSDO, it was really easy and the FSDO inspector was a pleasure to work with her.
I'm not sure about the ramp check but like others said make sure you have all your paperwork in order.

Dave, Your plane looks great. Good colors form what I can see in the tiny picture!

My paint job looks better in photos than in person!! I hope to do a lot of stripping and sanding this winter and get it repainted by a professional. I wrongly thought that since I had painted everything from metal doors to cabinets that I could paint a plane. I was wrong! If I had used my old pressure pot I may have had a chance but there would have been about $3k in paint in the hose!!

Let me know if you are looking for a place to fly and head over to KTEW.
 
These days, you should probably get yourself a LODA. Either you or your CFI should have a LODA when you are receiving any instruction in your E-AB.

ps -- Your new plane looks great! Enjoy!!
 
he probably needs a couple ramp checks a month to meet his quota. it's going to be a "twofer".
 
These days, you should probably get yourself a LODA. Either you or your CFI should have a LODA when you are receiving any instruction in your E-AB.

ps -- Your new plane looks great! Enjoy!!

Both of us have a LODA. Crazy we need one but got it anyway.
 
Mention it to a few of your airport buddies that some one might be snooping around that day. Word will get around & you won't see a more deserted airport that day.
 
Mention it to a few of your airport buddies that some one might be snooping around that day. Word will get around & you won't see a more deserted airport that day.

I think I will do just that. No sense in people not knowing when they are coming to town!
 
FSDO came to my hangar/airport to get my own repairmen last year. It really was a non event, they even brought updated operating limitations due to a typo on the initial one. We talked for over 2 hours, mostly just talking.

I would not be worried at all, and look at it as a chance to talk to them and learn more. Ask lots of questions, not often you get the chance.
 
FSDO came to my hangar/airport to get my own repairmen last year. It really was a non event, they even brought updated operating limitations due to a typo on the initial one. We talked for over 2 hours, mostly just talking.

I would not be worried at all, and look at it as a chance to talk to them and learn more. Ask lots of questions, not often you get the chance.

More important than asking questions is the way you answer theirs. Answer all questions honestly in as few words as possible. Do NOT elaborate!
 
Not sure how they can ramp check an airplane that's not on the ramp. But if it's the price for getting a repairman certificate, oh well. My Dad used to leave the compass correction card off so the inspector had something to find. They would focus on that, and not the other stuff he had done to the plane. Not sure I would recommend that, but he claimed it worked!

Most of the FSDO people I've met have been great. I suppose there are a few jerks, but there are a few jerks at Walmart also. As others mentioned, ask lots of questions and listen. Some of these guys have been around, and can be a great resource if you take the time to develop a relationship.
 
You will be all right Rocky. Nothing to worry about if all your paperwork is in order. I've been there couple three times FSDO guys are friendly. Just let them run the talk show :)

Rocky_-_1.jpeg
 
Not sure how they can ramp check an airplane that's not on the ramp. But if it's the price for getting a repairman certificate, oh well. My Dad used to leave the compass correction card off so the inspector had something to find. They would focus on that, and not the other stuff he had done to the plane. Not sure I would recommend that, but he claimed it worked!

Most of the FSDO people I've met have been great. I suppose there are a few jerks, but there are a few jerks at Walmart also. As others mentioned, ask lots of questions and listen. Some of these guys have been around, and can be a great resource if you take the time to develop a relationship.

This guys sounds like a nice guy. He was helpful in his emails offering to go over my paperwork before he came out to make sure I had it correct. He doesnt have the right to do a ramp check on a plane that is in a hangar, so I dont have to allow it but since I have all the paperwork I need and he is checking to see if I get a Repairman Certificate, I will see how it goes and then decide. I think he just wants to get out of Detroit and go on a field trip!
 
New FSDO trend

Not sure if it’s a new trend but one of the inspectors from the San Antonio FSDO recently came to my hanger (twice) for my repairman’s certificate. Second time was to fix a typo and to show his co-worker the RV-10. Both came from large military transport backgrounds and they were very interested in talking experimentals and learning about the Van’s RV series of aircraft. Probably helped that he lives in the same small town and probably appreciated getting out of the office.
 
Mention it to a few of your airport buddies that some one might be snooping around that day. Word will get around & you won't see a more deserted airport that day.

And tell the commercial operators on your field too. When I got my repairman cert (which was a none event) the inspector (really nice guy) went on to do an unannounced paperwork check with both the flight school and the repair station at the field. He explained to me that he drove all the way to the airport for my repairman cert and had to justify the trip and a days worth of work with his boss.

The flight school and repair station are still around so I guess it went well but I would have given them a heads up if I would have known... .

Oliver
 
This guys sounds like a nice guy. He was helpful in his emails offering to go over my paperwork before he came out to make sure I had it correct. He doesnt have the right to do a ramp check on a plane that is in a hangar, so I dont have to allow it but since I have all the paperwork I need and he is checking to see if I get a Repairman Certificate, I will see how it goes and then decide. I think he just wants to get out of Detroit and go on a field trip!

If the guy is coming out of the Detroit Office (Willow Run) hopefully you will get the same guy I had for my RV-10 REPAIRMAN CERTIFICATE. I don’t recall his name, but everyone I encountered at that office were really good people. The guy was very interested in EXP aircraft and knowledgeable in same. Though my encounter with them was many years ago, I left with the feeling that they were looking out for me. I hope you have a similar experience. As was mentioned, there is no need to volunteer information, just answer the questions honestly and have everything in order for when he/she arrives. Do not challenge the authority of the FAA in any way and you will have a good day.
 
Do your best to be prepared for the ramp check with your ARROW documents but don't be nervous. The fact that the FSDO inspector asked you if he could do it means it's a low-threat event. As was mentioned earlier, he probably has a quota of ramp checks he has to accomplish.

It's always been fashionable to bash the FAA, and certainly there are a few FSDO folks who deserve the criticism, but in my experience the large majority of FAA folks are professionals who take their public service responsibilities very seriously. Keep that in mind when you work with the FSDO guy and I think you'll have a good experience...and you'll score a point or two for the E-AB and RV community too!

HTH

ds
 
Ask Him About His Background

You’ll find most of the FSDO folks started from aviation backgrounds -pilots, A&P’s, Electronic Tech’s , etc. Detroit FSDO has a new hire with a background in all of these, and he’s also a multiple offender/builder. He’s coming out to make sure you haven’t substituted bread ties for safety wire, used ACO Hardware aluminum in your build, or tied down your fuel tank with “zip” ties (I’ve seen all three). In the end, he’s going to put his signature on your certificate, so he probably wants to feel confident that your airplane (and you) are safe enough to take to the sky. That’s pretty much it. Not a bad thing.

Finally, you’ve got a nice surprise coming. Check your increase in speed when you add leg fairings…

Good luck. Have fun.

Terry, CFI
RV9A N323 TP
 
A couple of things to think about. Government employees are always easier to deal with if you do everything you can to make their job easy. I would not deny him access to your hanger, I would welcome him and have coffee/soft drinks etc. ready. As far as I know he cannot do much if you are not getting in the plane to go fly other than to tell you of any deficiencies. I would have all the books, papers, and pictures ready for him. Like someone above said he is probably just getting his monthly quota done. If he does find a problem I would call your DAR and see what he thinks. Good luck and let us know what happens.
 
I bought a project in progress. This triggered some more in-depth questions to ensure I did not "outsource" so much that I would not be able to maintain the plane. They wanted pictures with me building, I did not have any, but lots of hand pictures. I told them I was a hand model- he looked at my hands, the pictures (dozens) and laughed. I got signed off. He said "the way you answered these questions, it was no way you did not build this plane"

I can not imagine you not involved - -you should do fine with their guidance.
 
Make sure you have all the ARROW documents. Have the AW cert displayed. Make sure you have your medical cert and student pilot cert. Don't show him your logbook. He can request to see it, but you don't have to have it with you. Don't answer questions he hasn't asked.
Treat it like a speeding ticket - don't admit to speeding and don't tell him about the body in the trunk. ;-)
Ed Holyoke
Since he is a student pilot, he should have his logbook with his solo and XC endorsements with him. I agree don’t show it unless asked, but since the endorsements are no longer part of the medical certificate, carrying the logbook with the endorsements is required.
 
Nice guy. Yeah, they send certified letters with a smile.

Second or third on letting your buddies and neighbors know you're inviting a Fed to the hangar that day. Had a Fed walk into a private airport residence with a formation brief once. I came in last - but in time. Thought he was a ride along/visitor. No announcement on his part. Would have been nice if someone said something.

And don't elaborate on anything but yesterday's weather! Assuming it was VFR if you flew.
 
I may be being set up by him but so far he has been a big help. I sent my application to him to check and he told me how to correct it so if would be right when he came. Agree on not providing more info than is required. One of my Michigan fellow VAF friends said when he visited him, it was a good visit and he was nice and professional.

We have our EAA meeting Sat and an open house at my friends hangar so I will make sure everyone knows he will be there on Tuesday.

I have all my papers in order thanks to him and Mel so I hope for the best. I will let you know how it goes.
 
Since he is a student pilot, he should have his logbook with his solo and XC endorsements with him. I agree don’t show it unless asked, but since the endorsements are no longer part of the medical certificate, carrying the logbook with the endorsements is required.

Negative.....Being a pilot has nothing to do with building and certificating an aircraft. The FAA representative should not ask you anything about flying the aircraft.
Only about the building process and experience. This is for a repairman certificate, not a pilot certificate. Again, being a pilot is NOT a prerequisite.
 
Negative.....Being a pilot has nothing to do with building and certificating an aircraft. The FAA representative should not ask you anything about flying the aircraft.
Only about the building process and experience. This is for a repairman certificate, not a pilot certificate. Again, being a pilot is NOT a prerequisite.
I agree, but he mentioned a ramp check... I thought that implied checking credentials related to a flight. If not, I stand corrected :cool:
 
I would only caution a couple of things. First, this is not a second airworthiness inspection, so if it veers into that area, I'd start to question it. Second, know what it's okay for a ramp check to involve (https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2013/january/22/kathy-surviving-ramp-check), and what it doesn't (as noted, this isn't a second AW inspection, nor should they be boarding your aircraft).

You asked for one thing, a Repairman's Certificate, and now you've got something else going on. I'd get the Repairman's Cert done first, signed off and delivered, then move on to the "ramp check" and keep it formal, polite, but without volunteering anything he doesn't ask and ensuring he keeps the scope within what it's supposed to be. https://fsims.faa.gov/WDocs/8700.1 GA Ops Insp Handbk/Volume 2/2_056_00.htm

BTW, if you aren't going or haven't been flying just prior to the "ramp check", I don't think it can actually legally be done:

OBJECTIVE. The objective of this task is to determine that an airman or operator is in continuing compliance with the far during an actual operational situation.
 
I agree, but he mentioned a ramp check... I thought that implied checking credentials related to a flight. If not, I stand corrected :cool:

To perform a "ramp check", the FAA representative must observe the airplane in flight or being prepared to make a flight.
 
To perform a "ramp check", the FAA representative must observe the airplane in flight or being prepared to make a flight.

One would think so, yes...

But I had an overzealous young recruit try to ramp check me at the Alpine TX airport back in 2006 - while we were in the middle of a hot air balloon rally - AFTER flying the balloons and refueling them, and recovered back at the airport, in the middle of a large gathering of about 40 pilots cooking a late lunch on the airport grounds and drinking beer. The airplane had been parked for about 4 hours at that point and was a couple hundred yards away from where we were cooking.

When I pointed out to him that he can't ramp check me for an airplane that is most obviously not being prepared for flight, he said he would call the sheriff and have me arrested if I did not cooperate immediately. I laughed and said "Go ahead and call him! Better yet, let me introduce you to him, he's standing right over here!"

The sheriff amazingly refused to arrest me, and after setting HIS beer down beside his hamburger, walked the young recruit off a ways from the group and talked to him, and the youngster finally left. He hung out there at the airport for THREE MORE DAYS waiting to catch me preflighting the airplane before he gave up and left.

So, no - don't count on the enforcers to know the rules they are charged with enforcing.
 
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Ramp check

I flew a L-19, Bird Dog into Wright Patterson for a fly-in. I was met after landing and a recruit ask me for my pilot certificate, airworthiness and registration. I ask him for his 110A, he said he didn’t have one, I said as far as I’m concerned you are a terrorist get the —-k away from my airplane. His boss was about 10 ft. Away with eyes as big as saucers. I told him when you get a 110A come back and see me and by the way this is what they look like. I was a FAA inspector at the time. 17 Bird Dogs for 4 days and 14 inspectors, we never went back.
 
Repairman Certificate Day

To bring you all up to date, I had my meeting and "ramp check" today. The meeting was great and I received my temp Repairman's Certificate with the official one to come in 30-60 days. We had a very nice conversation about my build and the cool panel. I showed him quite a few pictures and a several things on the plane to show I built it and knew what we were talking about.

In Michigan he said most use the FAA to do the Certification Inspection and they usually give the Repairmans Certificate at the same time they sign off the plane. Since I had a DAR do my inspection, it was out of the normal for him but we were able to make it work.

I said since my plane is not ready for flight and I am not solo certified, can you do an unofficial ramp check? I said I wanted to know what to expect if I was ever checked. The inspector was very helpful making sure I had all the correct paperwork and when I had left my registration in my copy machine at work, he said - good thing this wasn't an official check.

Overall it was a good experience. I notified everyone at the airport he would be there and it was like a ghost town! Bottom line - I got my Repairman's Certificate so I will be able to do my condition inspection next month!
 
I told him when you get a 110A come back and see me and by the way this is what they look like. I was a FAA inspector at the time.

haha!

Back when FSDO inspectors did checkrides, the very nice gent that did my CFI ride informed me on what to do for a ramp check. He told me two things:

1. They have to have a badge. He showed me his so I would know what to look for. Ask for it.

2. They can't delay or stop you from flying. You politely give them your name and phone number and inform them they can contact you to make an appointment for the ramp check.
 
Interesting to know, Bob.

I would assume the ability to walk / fly away from an attempted ramp check would inhibit their ability to catch ne'er-do-wells who don't normally have their papers in order :p

"Um, we can't honor your no-knock warrant today; come back tomorrow after we've flushed the drugs and laundered the cash. Thanks!"
 
2. They can't delay or stop you from flying. You politely give them your name and phone number and inform them they can contact you to make an appointment for the ramp check.

Not saying you are are wrong, but just want to verify this is correct. My understanding was that they couldn't unduly delay you. In other words they couldn't drag it out for 3 hours.
 
This from an FAA Work Aid that I found on-line, dated 2017.

If the surveillance will delay a flight, the inspector should use prudent judgment whether or not to continue.
 
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