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Which sump heater?

JDA_BTR

Well Known Member
I'm relocating to Colorado Springs.... what sump heater is the right one for a IO-390, 210HP thunderbolt version with AFP-150. ???

Might have to investigate remote control for it too....
 
I have and recommend Reiff System (on my M1B). I have the full system and activate it via a GSM switch. Tannis now sells the u-phone-it. If my area had WiFi it would be easier.
 
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Reiff Turbo XP was fantastic for me this past Minnesota winter. In a mild climate like Colorado Springs, you could probably get by with the plain Turbo. Whichever, I'm a big fan of the models with cylinder bands in addition to the sump heaters.

For remote, Switcheon is fantastic (no wifi at the airport). Very cost-effective and very reliable. Run by a simple app on your phone and uses LTE/IoT.
 
I have the Reiff sump heater and oil cooler heater. I love it, heats the oil up nicely. I will be adding the cylinder bands before next winter winter. It’s all plug and play.
 
Reiff Pre-Heat wire routing on an IO-390

I installed a Reiff Turbo XP on the IO-390 on my Glasair Sportsman. Although the baffling isn't the same as a RV-14, they are close enough to use some of the things I did (if you like them). I ran the main wiring harness along the top of the engine crankcase split line like everyone else. I added a couple of standoff brackets (0.062" thick 4130 steel) for the wiring and used MS-21919 clamps to hold the wiring in place. I also removed and added a nutplate to the bottom of the fuel injection spider mount so I could add a clamp there too. I mounted the "110V plug" on another custom mount (0.062" 6061-T6 aluminum) using a MS-21919-WDG10 to an open alternator mount on the right hand, front of the engine. This allows easy access to the plug via the right hand cooling air intake. I safety wired the two bolts used on this mount (the bolt sizes are overkill for this but they match the threads in the engine case). I modified the baffle so I could pull the Molex connector thru the baffling in case I ever needed to pull the baffling off and not have to remove the pre-heat wiring with it (or remove the pins from the Molex connector). I made the baffle pass thru on the left hand side of the baffling mainly because it routed better and it kept the right hand Molex connector "open" in case I ever decide to install a heating pad on the oil cooler (the oil cooler is mounted on the right hand side of the firewall). I added three "zip tie" mounts to the baffling to support the wiring going from the engine case split to the baffling pass thru. I put the two sump heaters on the aft sides of the sump. I added some high temp RTV to the back sides of the Molex connectors to help with any fatigue issues with the wires. I also used some RTV to support the wiring of the sump heaters as they came out of the heating pads for same reason. I supported the wires leading to the cylinder heating bands by using some MS-21919 clamps on the push rod tubes. The pics below should help with what I did. Let me know if you have any questions.

Jeff
 

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Glad to help

Let me know if you want any more pics. I forgot to add, I used a PIDG ring terminal for the green ground wire and attached it at the fastener used for the MS-21919 clamp on the fuel injection spider. I used a bit of adhesive-lined heat shrink tubing on it to help support the wire. You can barely see it in the upper LH portion of the last pic.
 
I installed the standard Reiff system (cylinder bands and one oil sump pad) and love it. Combined with a cell phone switch, there's nothing like turning it on while having your coffee at home and getting to the hangar and the oil's already up to starting temps. Yes, you can do a lot of things to save that $490.00, but most people I've known that did that ended up installing a dedicated system like this because it's not that much money and it is effective, especially combined with the cell phone switch. Just do it.

At COS, I'd probably opt for the turbo system, FWIW
 
I'm not sure why RV folks still spend so much time and money on a system designed to solve a problem that is about as uncomplicated as plugging in a hair dryer. That is exactly what I've been doing for over a decade of winters now.

I like simple as well.
A real 100 watt light bulb trouble light stuck up between the exhaust pipes in lower cowl and left on continuously during the winter months with a quilted blanket over the cowl does a great job in the pseudo winter of STL. Full disclosure if it gets real cold I also have 2 100 watt Reif sump pads with a remote start switch I turn on 4-5 hours before flying.
 
I suspect that I would manage pre-heating differently in Merced California than I do in Central Minnesota, if I bothered to pre-heat at all (Lycoming recommends pre-heating if the ambient temps are 10F or colder ). In actual cold climates, I doubt that 30-minutes of convection pre-heating with a hair dryer will come anywhere near the effectiveness of a purpose-built conduction system like the Reiff models, not to mention the inherent design safety of an aviation-specific pre-heating solution and the convenience of using a remote switch.

Not that using a hair dryer (attended) is a terrible idea, just one with limited application, climate-and-convenience-wise IMHO. The light-bulb-under-the-cowl idea 24/7 actually makes more sense to me and has the advantage of keeping the cowl environment and engine above the dew point.

In an additional plug for Switcheon as a remote switch, it's $199 which includes the first year of cell service. After that, the cell service is $50/year. You get feedback, so you know if the command was received, and it provides reporting on ambient temps that tell you if it's actually heating.
 
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For another data point I am using the $160 ez heat system from acs. I made some cowl plugs and use a gsm switch I purchased from china that turns on with a text. This make it easy to turn on 6 hours before I fly. It will pull the oil up to ~100 degrees and warms the case so my CHTs are 70+ on a below freezing day. If you have the ability to give plenty of time for a preheat a sump heater is all that is needed. The cylinder heaters in my opinion are only necessary if you need the ability to preheat in an hour or less.

-Jason
 
I've used small car warmers with reasonable success on the TIO-540 (even did it on a R-985 once). Wrap the entire cowling in a blanket, cowl plugs for the cooling air intake and exit. Engine seemed reasonably happy with it down to about -25°F. (R-985 was only to about +30°F).

I'm hoping to use the Reiff system because it's a much cleaner installation and it isn't really that expensive. I suspect the Reiff system is much more effective and efficient as well. Reiff has decent data on their site, but I have nothing other than guesses about the effectiveness of the car warmers. "Engine still started" doesn't offer much info.


https://www.amazon.com/Zerostart-2600900-Interior-Electric-Portable/dp/B000NM73ZA
 
I was looking for that chinese GSM switch - do you have a link and where you get the cell service for it?
 
I was looking for that chinese GSM switch - do you have a link and where you get the cell service for it?

I bought mine on e-bay and get a 3 month, 30 texts/month plan from T Mobile each winter for $10. I text the device and it turns on my heater for the number of minutes I request. I put a cheap digital clock on the circuit to confirm operation when I reach the hanger. Works great. :)
This is the one I bought:
http://www.waferstar.com/en/GSMApplication.html
 
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I looked all over my engine for where I could put the heater strip. The bottom is no good - it is where the air comes in? I found this spot on the back right corner; it isn't totally flat, but I think the heaters are flexible when glued on?

The pics posted above must have been on a slightly different 390 casing; mine isn't totally flat where the previous example was all flat here.

I thought one of the vendors would have an install pick of the right/best place but can't find a 390 heater strip pic that looks like what I have.
 

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The Reiff heater pads are aluminum and you use two. I mounted mine on the back of the flat you show in your photo, one on each side. I believe the Tanis heater pads are flexible silicon.
 
That's the location on the sump

I looked all over my engine for where I could put the heater strip. The bottom is no good - it is where the air comes in? I found this spot on the back right corner; it isn't totally flat, but I think the heaters are flexible when glued on?

The pics posted above must have been on a slightly different 390 casing; mine isn't totally flat where the previous example was all flat here.

I thought one of the vendors would have an install pick of the right/best place but can't find a 390 heater strip pic that looks like what I have.

That's the spot to locate the Rieff oil sump heating pad for the right hand side of the engine. There's a similar spot on the left hand side. The pics below show how I installed the heating pads. You'll need to "nest" the heating pad as far "inboard" as you can so the "outboard" edge of the pad rests on a relatively flat surface (see the first pic below). Orient the pad so the wiring is located on the "inboard" side. This will make running the rest of the wiring much easier. I first held them in place with some "blue tape" and marked around their edge with a sharpie to let me know how much of the engine paint I needed to remove. When it was time to bond the heating pads on the sump (after cleaning the area with some isopropyl alcohol) I applied the adhesive to the back of the heating pad, and held the heating pad on the sump with some "Gorilla" tape. By pressing the edges of the Gorilla tape up against the sump with your fingers, you'll end up with a nice, smooth fillet of adhesive around the edge of the heating pad once you remove the tape.

The third pic shows where I mounted the thermostat on the sump. It's on the left hand side of the sump, near where I located the heating pad. You can also see in this pic where I located the connector on the engine mount. It is just temporarily mounted in the pic. I wrapped the engine mount with some silicone fusion tape and then used a couple of "zip ties" to hold the connector in place for the final installation. The fourth pic shows the thermostat "taped" in place before I had removed the engine paint for bonding (similar to the first pic). Once the adhesive has cured, you'll want to add a little bit of high temperature RTV where the wiring exits the heating pads and thermostat. This will provide a bit of "strain relief" for the wires.

I hope this helps.

Jeff
 

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I spoke to both Lycoming and Reiff on best location to add the pad and they both said on either "wing" on the side of the sump as shown in posts above. Reiff also confirmed that only one pad is required to get the entire sump and bottom of engine warm.
 
Is that a 390-A? On the RV14 it is a 390-C. My 390-C doesn't have that long flat spot - there is a bend there of about 30 degrees in the middle of the area. I talked to Reiff and they confirmed; said that my best bet was to just use the cylinder heater and get the oil warmer that way.
 
Yep, it's an "A"

Is that a 390-A? On the RV14 it is a 390-C. My 390-C doesn't have that long flat spot - there is a bend there of about 30 degrees in the middle of the area. I talked to Reiff and they confirmed; said that my best bet was to just use the cylinder heater and get the oil warmer that way.

Yes, my engine is the experimental version of the IO-390-A. If all you plan to add are the cylinder heating bands, your life just got easier. Routing the wiring down from up top and thru the baffles is much tougher. I'd probably just mount the thermostat somewhere close to the cylinders to make life easy.
 
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