What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Aircraft Vandalized - Fire Extinguisher

MidwestRV

I'm New Here
Apologies if this is the wrong section to be posting in, please move or let me know where to put it if so.

I bought a flying RV-4 at the start of February and have since then been working on it tidying up a few things, replacing hoses, lines, new seats, shorter/closer rudder pedals etc.

I had just finished it this past week and started to put cowling and everything back together to taxi test and fly it this last Saturday. On Saturday I went up to put the cowling on to taxi around and sadly I found the plane coated with a class ABC monoammonium phosphate fire extinguisher (the powdery kind). Someone broke into the gated/locked, police patrolled airport and then the locked shared T hangars and rummaged through everyone's stuff and for some reason picked my plane to pull the pin on an old fire extinguisher nobody realized was even there and proceeded to walk around my plane and spray the entire thing. It appears they didn't get any in the intake nor on the engine. The interior appears clean as canopy was closed and locked. The entire interior is primed and the plane is fully painted with thick automotive paint. Other planes had wiring messed with, things tossed around, and trickle chargers unplugged from inside the airplanes. All doors were closed back up and keys put back in place that were used, very very weird. I don't really know anyone at this airport and have only been based there < 2 months. The police believe they know who did it and that it wasn't targeted, but that's all I really am allowed to say due to the ongoing investigation.

I spent 6 hours with shopvacs and fine paint brushes with 2 other friends immediately sucking everything that we could off and out of the plane and each crack or seam. I took wing root fairings and tail fairing off to try to get any that may have fallen around. We then took a small mixture of baking soda and wet rags to wipe down the plane. We didn't want to just soak the plane in water and the manufacturer of the fire extinguisher said 3/4 cup or so of baking soda and 5 gallons would be the mixture to use. A few A&Ps agreed to try that but none had really heard of this happening and it was a weekend evening, so not many folks were answering anyways. I just wanted it off ASAP. After we wiped it down the next day I went back and continued to try to blow out any hinges or hard to get areas with compressed air in a direction that would blow it out and not further in. We then hand washed with damp rags essentially every rivet and screw.

I am waiting on what insurance is going to say, they've been making a lot of calls but they so far sound like they are going to file a claim. My greater question is does anyone think there's a chance that the plane was saved by our quick actions? Did we make it worse? Is it even worth monitoring and hoping it is fine? I know the powder was on the plane for less than 12 hours as I've been at the hangar every day this week finishing the plane up.

I already called Vans Aircraft, the fire extinguisher company to ensure baking soda was the neutralizer for that type of extinguisher, a few A&Ps, insurance, police etc.

I can add some pictures later when time allows.

I will be adding an offline camera solution to the hangar and also an online one that allows alerts to be sent to me going forward so I am able to immediately view if anyone is entering the hangar that shouldn't be. I just didn't think given the airport security was so high that I would need to do that...

Thanks for reading. I really did not expect this to be my first post on Vansairforce as a first time plane owner and newly acquired RV
 
When airports require fire extinguisher in hangars, they really need to add a clause that standard ABC models are prohibited. Purple K, Halon or CO2 should be recommended.
 
Eric,

Horrible to read, hope your plane can be returned to flight easily.

AFA security, I added the tMobile 5G home internet transmitter to my plan, and an Arlo camera high above my hangar door hooked up to it, thinking about one inside. I have them at my house and they are great cameras, I pay about $15/month for 30 days unlimited recording. The 5G transmitter makes it a lot easier to research or read VAF while I am at the hangar too.

It's also nice for the many times I am working late at night at my hangar and I can keep an eye on my car outside, make sure nobody is waiting to ambush me before I come out.
 
Last edited:
Had a Piper Warrior had a carb fire, someone used an ABC extinguisher on it. We cleaned it well with water and baking soda, then cleaned it again with soap and water. Blow dry it with a leaf blower and/or compressed air. It's been fine since then (no signs of corrosion after a 2.5 years).

I would recommend getting a little more liberal with the baking soda mix, rather than just toweling it down with it, use a spray wand or spray bottle to get in any areas that are particularly small or crevasses, hinges or tight corners. Then, rinse with good amount of water, then blow dry good with a leaf blower and compressed air. I wouldn't worry about getting the plane too wet (obviously not the avionics), and get a good rinse on it. Blow dry and set in the sun for a while should dry most of it quickly.

Then, monitor for any corrosion at each CI. I am not a chemist, but the articles I found about ABC extinguisher contents, is that they will corrode Al, but it takes a while, and is easily neutralized and washed away with the baking soda solution. In my Piper Warrior case though, it was mostly contained to the engine bay, and it was already coated with 40 yrs of oil and grease, so that limited the scope of having to clean.

Sorry to hear that, it's probably some troubled kid or a deranged person, and hopefully getting caught and bearing the full responsibility of their actions will put them on the right path and change the direction they are headed.
 
I’ve been involved in a number of these. If I can be of help with the insurance company, please contact me.

Vic
 
Welcome to VAF

Eric, first off---welcome to VAF.

Sorry to hear about the vandalism to your plane, no words for that kind of thing.

It sounds like you did the best you could to save the plane------hope it was enough.
 
Sad state of affairs, not only for your plane, but the airport as well. Vandalizing aircraft is a federal offense I'm pretty sure. Certainly hope the authorities are on the case and will catch the culprits. Does sound like an inside job.



Tom
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I believe Wyze makes a camera that accepts a SIM card to monitor remotely. Sorry to hear about your troubles.
 
I believe Wyze makes a camera that accepts a SIM card to monitor remotely. Sorry to hear about your troubles.

I haven't yet had the pleasure of having a hangar with useable cellular or WiFi service.

Remote monitoring would be a definite luxury.
 
Back to cleanup and mitigation. Some of this may be helpful for future incidents.

These are offhand recommendations that come from my background with decontamination after chemical warfare agent exposure, not professional guidance.

Good job starting with fine brushes and shop vacs. Shop vacs have pretty coarse filters, so they should exhaust well clear of the plane to prevent re-contamination of fitted with a much better filter.

There is a technique used with waterless car wash products that avoids wiping dirt or other contaminants around. A cloth is dampened and then used with a rolling motion that constantly exposes a clean part of the cloth to the surface as it is moved across the dirty surface.

A discussion of possible flushing agents and subsequent surface (especially mating surfaces and crevices) protection would be in order. Professional advice should be sought here. Perhaps something like Stoddard Solvent could be sprayed under pressure to flush crevices and mating surfaces. After that treatment, ACF-50 or CorrosionX might mitigate the effect of remaining contamination. These are just thoughts; the manufacturers of these products should be consulted to avoid doing more harm.
 
Thank you all for the welcomes, comments, and suggestions.

Insurance (and I.. because I haven't gotten to even taxi it after I got it) wanted to start it up and taxi around. I did after ensuring the engine looked free and clear. It fired right up and ran like a swiss watch after not running for 2 months while I was working on making it right for my small stature to reach the pedals.

As far as video cameras in the hangar goes going forward. I do have the option of getting WiFi out there but I do have a cell modem right now, just no cameras. Already ordered some after research.

The police didn't seem to be taking it real seriously (might just have been my biased view as I was freaking out about my plane) until I told them that insurance was looking to write it off and what the value of the plane was/is. There now is a detective assigned the case and we are going up with forensics to pull prints off some of the areas that were left undisturbed by us among other things.

I'll look to clean it more with baking soda and water than I already did. Probably doesn't hurt to go through it a 3rd time...

You definitely can still see some on the ground and I did my best to clean up everything that I could but it's gravel outside of the concrete slap between each plane, it's a T hangar row with no internal walls between the planes. I put a large tarp down over everything near the plane. I am curious if the planes next to us that don't have any visible residue on them are fine? One is a V-tail and I recall hearing those ruddervators like to disintegrate if you look at them funny...
 
...it's a T hangar row with no internal walls between the planes.
Given how targeted the assault was (stuff rifled through elsewhere but nothing taken/damaged?) it sounds a lot like someone wants you out of that hangar space.
 
Given how targeted the assault was (stuff rifled through elsewhere but nothing taken/damaged?) it sounds a lot like someone wants you out of that hangar space.

Other planes had wires and various bits messed with inside their planes. My canopy is closed and locked and nothing was touched inside. My theory is that's why they picked mine to use the extinguisher on was because they were able to get in all the other planes but not mine. Who knows!

I'd agree but the my plane has never been outside since it was put in 2 months ago when I bought it. Door never been opened where anyone would see the plane inside and only 3-4 people know the plane is even there, or who I am. I hadn't even met everyone that shared the hangar with me. The hangar isn't a high tier hangar... the guy next to me has about 3 inches thick of solid ice on the floor so it's not some desirable hangar spot (I go up every time it snows to make sure nothing gets in my area). It's just bizarre. However, there's been a few troubled individuals that keep trying to get into the airport I was told. One was chased out a few days ago as well, but they try to get in through the FBOs, not jumping/ducking a gate.

IF someone does want me out... they could've at least done immediate damage to the plane so then this insurance mess wouldn't be such a mess and a big unknown.

Based on how we believe they got in to the hangar, I will say that if you keep a spare key to your hangar outside in a lockbox that it's best to hide it well so it isn't in plain site or rethink having a box with a key there. Others had them on the handle to the door.
 
What #$%&* person would do that? I am so sorry to hear this.

Long ago I was hired to fly a repossessed Piper Tomahawk from Canada to Washington State. The plane was in position and control at an FBO, who had taken custody of plane from the defaulting former owner of plane. I just had to pick it up and deliver it, back to USA. I did not have to personally repossess it.

I delivered it to small private field I knew. They asked for a place safe from previous owner. I knew this field and suggested it, because it was sleepy, out of the way, verses the big airport like KPAE in Everett WA six miles away, where Boeing flies their new B767's and B747's. In retrospect should have parked on the ramp at KPAE with security fence.

I happened to drive by a day or two later to see if it had been picked up as agreed, but it was TP'ed. I removed the paper. I suspect local kids. I told the agent to get it moved ASAP, and it was.

Airport security at small airports, even large ones with fence can be pretty slim. Unless you get to TSA, SITA level, commercial airports with schedule operations or military base (although stuff happens at these airports time to time).

There was an avionics thrift ring decades ago that flew into airports, middle of night, ripped out avionics (which can be easy) and flew away. Occasionally you hear of stolen planes including RV's. However with crime on the rise stuff happens more I suspect there will be an increase in aircraft theft. In Europe there was a Rotax engine theft ring. Engines were likely going to countries with trade bans through black market, to be used for drones.

For fun when I was a new pilot I use to land at new airports, get out and walk around ramp to see what derelict planes were parked there. No one every said squat to me.

YOUR situation is far more despicable and serious. Again sorry to hear this. Glad you had friends to pitch in.... Hope it works out well. Best of luck.
 
Last edited:
When I rented my hangar, there was no extinguisher in it (fairly new hangars). I put in, right by the door, a BC extinguisher.

Along comes airport management, and says the rules say they have to put in an ABC extinguisher...they wouldn't just accept my BC. So they did, despite being told ABCs will destroy an aircraft structure.

I get that in a hangar fire situation, their first concern is putting it out, not saving the plane, in order to save *all* the planes in the hangar row. But seriously, why wouldn't a non-corrosive type suffice?

I may resort to removing theirs for the 364 days a year they won't be in there, only putting it up for the day of the inspection, and relying on my somewhat safer to the aircraft BC model of the same size.
 
What airport?

Sorry to hear about your vandalism.

My son lives in Minnesota and just built a hangar at LVN. What airport did this happen at?
 
When I rented my hangar, there was no extinguisher in it (fairly new hangars). I put in, right by the door, a BC extinguisher.

Along comes airport management, and says the rules say they have to put in an ABC extinguisher...they wouldn't just accept my BC. So they did, despite being told ABCs will destroy an aircraft structure.

I get that in a hangar fire situation, their first concern is putting it out, not saving the plane, in order to save *all* the planes in the hangar row. But seriously, why wouldn't a non-corrosive type suffice?

I may resort to removing theirs for the 364 days a year they won't be in there, only putting it up for the day of the inspection, and relying on my somewhat safer to the aircraft BC model of the same size.
A BC extinguisher probably won’t be effective on a Class A fire (wood/paper/combusitble solids). You could add a water extinguisher for Class A, and then have all three covered.
 
A BC extinguisher probably won’t be effective on a Class A fire (wood/paper/combusitble solids). You could add a water extinguisher for Class A, and then have all three covered.

I'd guess for any small-to-moderate sized thing on fire, it would probably do the job, or I could go grab a bucket of water, but having a water extinguisher handy is a good idea. I'll check into it. At least then maybe the county numbskulls might see it, check their box, and move on. :)
 
Fire suppression

Funny story. Part of my job was managing our six data centers. One was critical to the entire city.
Every one and zero from every government agency went through that data center. Voice and data traffic for the city, county, state, community college and several others government entities including 911 calls.
I brought up a problem. Water fire suppression system.
It didn't take long to stir that pot. They installed a 500 gallon FM-200 gaseous system.
However, they would not remove the water.
 
Sorry to hear about your vandalism.

My son lives in Minnesota and just built a hangar at LVN. What airport did this happen at?

I'm not aware of that event happening at any of the airports around here, but still disconcerting even if another part of the state. Our regional airport where my hangar is "sort of" secure, but the 4-digit code to get into the gates or the FBO isn't exactly a secret (soon to change as Delta/Skywest switch to planes big enough to amp up the security level considerably...ID badges, criminal background checks, etc).
 
I'm not aware of that event happening at any of the airports around here, but still disconcerting even if another part of the state. Our regional airport where my hangar is "sort of" secure, but the 4-digit code to get into the gates or the FBO isn't exactly a secret (soon to change as Delta/Skywest switch to planes big enough to amp up the security level considerably...ID badges, criminal background checks, etc).

This was at FCM. Word slowly has been spreading in the area so I'm fine saying where it happened. I also have taken it upon myself to put in my own cameras to the hangar that report motion with a notification to my phone so in the future I can sleep better at night. Right now it's easily worth the 20 some bucks a month for the data cost.
 
This was at FCM. Word slowly has been spreading in the area so I'm fine saying where it happened. I also have taken it upon myself to put in my own cameras to the hangar that report motion with a notification to my phone so in the future I can sleep better at night. Right now it's easily worth the 20 some bucks a month for the data cost.

Your whole event really sucks and I'm sorry you went through all of that. At least you have access to a LOT of RV technical expertise there at FCM, and elsewhere around the Twin Cities (coincidentally, TCBG meeting Saturday at Lake Elmo).

I know that FCM has had several vandalism occurrences over that last decade or so. My hangar at BRD is an individual T-hangar with walls, but at an airport with pretty rudimentary security. It's a nice hangar, but realistically their security measures are only effective against the casual thief/vandal, not against someone that's determined. I'd add real-time cameras in a second if we had wifi or even a cell signal that would support mifi, but that's a no-go here.

Reportedly, BRD has to meet upgraded airport security standards sometime in July, but I'm certain that it still won't be any better than what already exists at FCM.
 
Eric, this is a terrible and perplexing event. I certainly would contract the FBI since I understand it is a federal office.

Our "spring" meetings of the Twin Cities RV Builders Group is this Saturday. Details on the website www.mnwing.org. You are certainly invited!!!
 
Corrosion X?

Eric,

Consider if your plane may benefit from a fogging with Corrosion X or an equivalent. Seems like relatively cheap insurance to me.

If you plan to go to the MnWing meeting on Saturday, contact me if you are interested in carpooling from the FCM area.
 
I'm no law guy but isn't doing anything malicious to a plane considered a federal offense? I hope they catch and prosecute who's responsible. So sorry this happened!
 
I'd add real-time cameras in a second if we had wifi or even a cell signal that would support mifi, but that's a no-go here.

I was in a similar situation. I’m lucky if I can get two bars outside the hangar. Inside the hangar with the door closed cell phones just don’t work. The airport wouldn’t allow any holes drilled into the hangar to mount anything, like an antenna on the roof.

After prolong conversation with the airport, I found a compromise. I purchased a Surecell booster and installed it in the hangar. I grabbed a 12” x 6” scrap of aluminum and attached six earth magnets to it. I mounted the antenna to this plate. The earth magnets strongly hold the assembly in place on the roof of the hangar. I have an end hangar so I had a little more flexibility than my neighbor’s hangars. I ran the coax down the outside corner of the hangar using earth magnets to hold the coax in place. (Think like click2bond studs). There is a gap between the concrete floor and the corner of the door to get the coax into the hangar.

For $20/mo, I now have a MiFi in the hangar that provides Internet access. I installed a Ring camera that I can access remotely. When motion is detected, it starts recording and announces loudly you are being recorded, as well as sending me a text alert.

I also have a smart plug that I can control my engine heater via Amazon’s Alexa app. That’s nice because I can adjust the configuration to turn on and off the heater based upon current temperature conditions from home.

I also have an AppleTv in the hangar to stream football games while working in the hangar. The MiFi has a low data limit, so it doesn’t work well after they downgrade the bandwidth when I hit my cap. I’m currently shopping for something to replace the MiFi unit with a higher data cap. But haven’t had the time to shop due my new panel upgrade.

I just wanted to share that there are ways to get the Internet and cameras into your hangar, you just need to get a little creative.
 
It’s going to cost 120 a month but a starlink RV unit might be the answer. Get 6 hangars around you to all chip in and your at 20 each per month. Cost for the unit is 599. This will give you excellent high speed internet.
 
Last edited:
I just wanted to share that there are ways to get the Internet and cameras into your hangar, you just need to get a little creative.

Thanks Bob. We have a pretty congenial group of tech-savvy pilots here. Between us we've looked at all available options and we've found, as you did, that most such problems can be solved if you're willing to throw enough money at them. We have some options we're considering, including various booster schemes but it's a pretty crappy signal. I had to put an antenna on the roof of my new hangar to get enough cell signal for my Switcheon to work reliably and that thing uses IoT...a really low-bandwidth conept. We're working on where the required dollars fit on the "nice-to-have <--> critical=to-have" scale and whether or not we can get the airport commission to kick in something. In 35 years flying out of that airport, I've never seen a theft of vandalism problem. However, Delta/Skywest is reportedly switching their twice-a-day jet service to a plane big enough to require a whole airport security revamp in July. That might be a good hook into better internet from the airport, but their priority has never really been the General Aviation contingent. In the meantime, we're just going to have to hope that the past can predict the future.
 
Last edited:
Back to cleanup and mitigation. Some of this may be helpful for future incidents.

These are offhand recommendations that come from my background with decontamination after chemical warfare agent exposure, not professional guidance.

Good job starting with fine brushes and shop vacs. Shop vacs have pretty coarse filters, so they should exhaust well clear of the plane to prevent re-contamination of fitted with a much better filter.

There is a technique used with waterless car wash products that avoids wiping dirt or other contaminants around. A cloth is dampened and then used with a rolling motion that constantly exposes a clean part of the cloth to the surface as it is moved across the dirty surface.

A discussion of possible flushing agents and subsequent surface (especially mating surfaces and crevices) protection would be in order. Professional advice should be sought here. Perhaps something like Stoddard Solvent could be sprayed under pressure to flush crevices and mating surfaces. After that treatment, ACF-50 or CorrosionX might mitigate the effect of remaining contamination. These are just thoughts; the manufacturers of these products should be consulted to avoid doing more harm.

Way back I worked on a pro race team and our cars all had built in fire suppression systems. Twice they went off by accident while in the shop and we had to deal with the same issue as you. It's a terrible job. The cars were monocoque just as our airplanes are so we had the same concerns; overlapping skins, corrosion, etc. We took them outside and pressure washed them with soapy water being careful to stay away from electrical. We then hosed down everything with alcohol. The alcohol displaces water and evaporates clean. I would expect an entire airframe would be more involved but thought I'd throw this out.
Really sorry this happened to you. Giant bummer.
 
alcohol

We had a guy that decided to wash down a wheel well of a Super 80 with alcohol because AA decided we couldn't use MEK any more.
He said he noticed getting very hot, it lit off when someone turned on the aux hydraulic pump, being alcohol he couldn't see the flames.
After that we were reduced to water only, not very effective for cleaning Skydrol leaks.
 
Constructive Loss

I figured I'd give an update as I have more information now.

I'd like to thank everyone for any and all suggestions they had and for those that reached out in DMs or that were local and managed to find the guy feverishly cleaning his RV outside and stopped by the hangar to say hi.

Also, thank you Vic Syracuse for answering my questions on the phone and the knowledge you shared. Much appreciated.

The plane is being marked as a constructive total loss by insurance. That process will take a bit of time and might be longer due to the active police investigation. This is just a reminder to make sure you up your insurance to match what a replacement would cost in todays market.. or if doing upgrades like me to the plane to up it as soon as you can so you aren't slightly underinsured. Lesson learned there, I guess.

I will be in the RV-4 market again, most likely by July.
 
It’s going to cost 120 a month but a starlink RV unit might be the answer. Get 6 hangars around you to all chip in and your at 20 each per month. Cost for the unit is 599. This will give you excellent high speed internet.
You might want to consider the T-Mobile offering (and maybe there are others now) that is $50/month. The call it "Home Internet" and it uses "5G".

There is an online website that will tell you if you have strong 5G near your "home".
 
I figured I'd give an update as I have more information now.

I'd like to thank everyone for any and all suggestions they had and for those that reached out in DMs or that were local and managed to find the guy feverishly cleaning his RV outside and stopped by the hangar to say hi.

Also, thank you Vic Syracuse for answering my questions on the phone and the knowledge you shared. Much appreciated.

The plane is being marked as a constructive total loss by insurance. That process will take a bit of time and might be longer due to the active police investigation. This is just a reminder to make sure you up your insurance to match what a replacement would cost in todays market.. or if doing upgrades like me to the plane to up it as soon as you can so you aren't slightly underinsured. Lesson learned there, I guess.

I will be in the RV-4 market again, most likely by July.

keep in mind the insurance company will sell the airframe. Normally they will give you first shot at purchasing it.
 
Back
Top