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Buyer - take nothing for granted

Webb

Well Known Member
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I have refrained from posting on the partially finished kit I purchased. The following pictures will be enough to win horror story of the year.

The reason for the post was to encourage every second hand kit owner to go over every rivet before they buy. Assume NOTHING meets standard.

Needless to say, I have disassembled most of the fuselage and have $2k worth of replacement parts on order from The mothership. Got to tell you that I am a professional rivet remover now.

The pics below are cut out from the empanage area of the longerons. The builder missed the first cut and tried to do a repair forward of the upright attachment bars. knowing the entire tail cone area (RV-8) needed to be replaced, I found this after removing the aft deck.

Had the empanage attachments been acceptable, it possibly could have escaped discovery. After finding this lovely, if the plane had an anus, it would have gotten a colonoscopy.

I can say I’ve finished taking it apart and can start the build/rebuild.

I have no doubt I saved somebody’s life by buying this mess and fixing it. The other things I found in the tail would have resulted in a catastrophic separation of the empanage.

They say you can’t fix stupid. I’m proof it is possible.
 

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I'm finishing the parting out a -3 that looked to have good potential to finish and make airworthy.

After getting deeper into the build, I found similar issues withe main spar and horizontal stab attach holes. Parts were added to make up for mistakes, and they were hard to see right away. It became clear that the result would not be worth the effort.

Thankfully the project didn't involve a lot of expenditure on my part, and it seemed obvious that it was my responsibility to finally put this horse down. Pretty sad, considering this was someone's dream many years ago.

"All that glisters is not gold—
Often have you heard that told."

  William Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice, Act II Scene 7
 
Bill, fortunately I caught it early enough in the build that it’s worth buying the fix it parts. I would estimate it was at about 30% completed for the fuselage. There were so many goodies that came with it that it was worth fixing instead of scraping.
 
You’re not kidding.

After looking at the project I eventually bought, I ordered a whole new empennage before I’d even gone back to pick it up. I figured I’d just give away the existing vertical and horizontal to save someone some time, but after looking more closely once I got it home, I cut both parts in half and threw them in the dumpster.

When I was loading the wings up to take home, I needed to pull the flaps so I could secure the wings in their cradles. Suddenly things weren’t so good..

You can’t screw up QB wings much worse than this, and I completely missed it during the initial inspection. After this I sold the wings (with full disclosure to the buyer) and removed every bolt, rivet and part that the previous builder had installed or built. Fortunately, the QB fuselage was mostly untouched.
 

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Terrible stuff :eek:
Also makes me wonder how many of those Frankenstein are actually in operation…

And now one better understands why some very knowledgeable RV people don’t do pre-buys anymore. Some of this stuff would be pretty hard to spot on a standard pre-buy.
 
Since I retired in June, I now work in my airplane factory. I got this mess in May so it hasn’t been very long in my journey. Being a repeat offender, my second build is going much faster.

Not everything is bad. The finishing kit was untouched. And there were extras that came with it.

The fuselage was to the canoe stage so dismantling allowed me to find what was wrong and replace or repair.

The wings were at the 50% stage. They were not trashed but did require lots of rework and a few replacement parts. And ailerons need to be reskinned

The empanage was ugly and the HS was not safe. I built a complete new empanage. I had intended to re-skin but after removing the skins, I did not like what I saw so I built new. Used the good parts and ordered the rest.

My mentor says make it pretty. Pretty is usually safe, ugly is usually not safe. My ugly duckling is turning into a swan.

What was bad was the previous workmanship would have made the plane not airworthy and some poor smuck would have a scrape pile when a DAR would not have passed it.

If it had passed, I’m afraid a fatality would have occurred.

I can officially say that dismantlement and repair is over and all building will be going forward. Hence my demeanor is now much more positive.

And since I am retired, it’s keeping me off the streets and out of the bars.
 
Man, Webb, those are scary pictures.

It is exactly these kinds of issues that are buried in structure that I, personally, am thankful for the inspection system we have here in Canada. It costs a little money but an approved Ministers Delegate - Recreational Aviation (MD-RA) trained inspector has to be able to inspect every rivet, nut, bolt, cotter pin, etc during the build and sign off on it. For a typical RV, this generally means at least two inspections: a pre-cover inspection before ANY structure is permanently closed up and a final inspection before first flight. When I had my pre-cover on my -8, I waited until the fuselage, wings, and empennage were completed to that stage. Once inspected, I could close everything up and finish the aircraft up to first flight.

I know in the US it is *recommended* that the build be inspected this way, especially by an EAA Tech Councilor, but it is not mandatory (someone please correct me if I am wrong). Here in Canada, you MUST have these inspections done and have the documentation to prove it before you can get Special C of A.

I know at least one MD-RA inspector who frequents these forums (but I won't out him ;) ) so he may chime in here if I lied about something.
 
For my education, what is wrong with the wing on the photo you attached?

The previous builder hinged the flaps on the top skin - note that the hinge is not attached to the flap brace. They literally went up instead of down.

They were QB wings,, so I was really focused on the bottom skins to make sure the workmanship was ok, but I never noticed that the flaps were on upside down until weeks later when I was picking up the project and loading the wings into the trailer.
 
Webb

Not bashing your project, I'm glad to hear you found a way to make it work. Good on ya!

Like other posters have said, when you find things like hinges installed upside down or on the wrong surface, you immediately get the heebies about the rest of the project. Find enough things like that and you call it off.

Point being made here is that you can never assume another builder has built at the same level of quality as you would.

Cheers
 
Here is what’s left of the fuselage that was salvaged except the longerons and the roll bar attach plates since the are just holding some pieces together for now. Note the upper longerons have been cut off so I don’t poke my eye out.

Even the weldments and firewall are gone. At least I have lots of extra sheet metal for projects and a piece of stainless that can be used for the cooling ramp.

And for the curious, that’s my woodworking bench that I made years ago. With 2 vices, it has been a godsend for holding parts that I’m working on.
 

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