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Hight cost of insurance

joedallas

Well Known Member
I finished my rv12 and passed the DAR Inspection and finding it hard to find Insurance at my age.

The aircraft is ready to make its first flight and I won't fly it without insurance.

The aircraft is now ready for the phase one 40-hour test flights.

If I can't find insurance I will be forced to sell.




WWW.joesrv12.com.
 
So is it the high cost or it’s just not available at all? If high cost, how much were you quoted? Are you ok telling us how old you are? Hard to put this in perspective without knowing the details.
 
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He was building drag racers in the 60's, if that says anything...

Op, Im a bit confused. You have built the airplane over an extended period. I'm assuming its all paid for, no note. Generally speaking, if you had a bad enough accident to total the plane, there is a good chance you would not make it. Similar to saying "you went out with your boots on".

Why would you not fly it ? Perhaps you need to find a younger licensed friend to go flying with if you are concerned about your own ability ?
 
I am married and I am [U]Married[/U]

So is it the high cost or it’s just not available at all? If high cost, how much were you quoted? Are you ok telling us how old you are? Hard to put this in perspective without knowing the details.

I am 78 years old and the aircraft is paid for.

The best price I have so far is $ 5600 and only 40,000 Hull damage

Hanger rent is about $400 in Florida

And the cost of Fuel keeps going up

I am married and I am Married

and I am not afraid of my flying skills.

And at some point the cost of flying is not practical
 
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If the cost is a huge issue, sell it now in mint condition, prices have never been higher. The spend a fraction of the proceeds on Kolb or Titan with a 4 cylinder Jabiru engine (single or 2 seat) and the balance should more than cover all the gas you can burn in your allotted time.

On insurance, get liability if you need it for the hangar, maybe look to share your hangar space with another small bird and with that you cut that cost in half.

I am buying the same kind of plane right now for building hours for my wife and we will not get any hull coverage. We figure in a few years we save enough to have paid for the plane a second time... If we lose it, so be it. One has to live first and worry about murphy second.
 
If needed for the hangar: ground, not in motion insurance would be an option for hull. Then just liability for flight. Covers your family against liability and the aircraft against non-flight related hazard.
 
With no Hull coverage

Yes, this one option this would cost me $3300 a year with no Hull coverage.

I have not in motion hanger insurance now with $50,000 Hull and it cost me about $800 a year.



If needed for the hangar: ground, not in motion insurance would be an option for hull. Then just liability for flight. Covers your family against liability and the aircraft against non-flight related hazard.
 
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Wow, $3300 for liability only?? Thats a lot.

Unfortunately I have heard the same from two different folks just today, it seems that rolling over 70 shoots the insurance prices through the roof. Your best bet might be to have a conversation with one of the more experienced brokers to get their opinion on what your options are. These folks know the market and can give you an honest opinion of the market.
 
Who have you has quote you a policy? Have you tried AOPA, EAA, I've had the best luck having them run to various underwriters and come back with the best option.
 
Some additional information please...

Can you share some of the details of the policy & coverage beyond the cost? What were the coverage limits? Open pilot clause? Also the particular broker/underwriter would be good to know.

Additionally, what ratings do you hold, how many hours as PIC, in type? And, the type of medical and prior infractions will also play a huge part of determining risk (SI, or HIMS Class III for example...)

There are a couple of folks I know that are 70+ and don't pay anything near that for their RV-12s...
 
Travers & Associates

Hull Value: $80,000
Deductibles: Not in Motion: $0 In Motion: $
Liability Limits: $1,000,000 Combined Single Limit (Bodily Injury and Property Damage)
Excluding Passengers
Medical Payments: $5,000 Each Person
Total Annual Premium: $7,464.00
State Tax: $0.00

I am 78 years old with about 210 hours PIC, most in a Sundowner N5102M, I wish I never sold

Most don't even want to quote me.


Can you share some of the details of the policy & coverage beyond the cost? What were the coverage limits? Open pilot clause? Also the particular broker/underwriter would be good to know.

Additionally, what ratings do you hold, how many hours as PIC, in type? And, the type of medical and prior infractions will also play a huge part of determining risk (SI, or HIMS Class III for example...)

There are a couple of folks I know that are 70+ and don't pay anything near that for their RV-12s...
 
78 years old with about 210 hours PIC

As Sam said, 78 and 210PIC is going to be the issue. Also, FAA records for you don't match reality -- You might want to get that cleaned up; unless you are in the Witness Protection Program...or something...

I sent you a PM for an agency that writes a lot of policies for RV folks.
 
Give Leah a call

I'm 69, have an RV-12iS and only started flying two years ago so I have under 100 hours. I have liability only and a rider for the required hangar liability ( my airport requires it) and it is less than $600 a year.

Also, if you built your RV-12 I thought the phase one requirement was only 5 hours not 40 since it is also available as an S-LSA.

Give Leah a call and see if she can offer anything better than what you have gotten.


Leah Ringeisen
Account Executive - Aerospace Practice

Direct: 877-520-6247 | fax: 636-532-3646 | main: 877-475-5260
Leah_Ringeisen@ajgcom
www.ajgcom/lightaircraft | www.ajg.com
 
So many problems…

As Sam said, 78 and 210PIC is going to be the issue. Also, FAA records for you don't match reality -- You might want to get that cleaned up; unless you are in the Witness Protection Program...or something...
.

Age, low total time, virtually zero time in type, faa data base doesn’t seem to know the current you, also non-standard engine.

At least you are not alone. I know a local pilot, 250 TT, 10 hr dual checkout, who paid $7000/yr for coverage on a long EZ.

You said your liability quote excluded passengers? Can that be right?
 
I happen to be with Gallagher and happy but a couple of local pilots over 80 had to use Avemco as an only choice and were pleased with the rate. Just a thought.
 
I flew solo and accumulated several hours before applying for insurance. If you are uncomfortable doing that, you could buy liability only for the first year and accumulate as many hours as possible. Having experience, you might find less expensive insurance the second year. Of course you will also be a year older and closer to 80.
 
High Cost of insurance

Those prices do seem high. The best advice is find an experienced aviation broker and tell them everything about your flying experience, the airplane, where it is based, hangared, etc. These brokers know the market and can get you the best price. The only other option is AVEMCO. AVEMCO writes does not deal with brokers. It deals directly with the customer so get a quote from AVEMCO and then work with an experienced aviation broker. By dealing with these two entities, you will have all the quotes.
 
Wow. That seems excessively high for liability only.

I agree. I had my son get his PPL in my 6A last year. I was paying $900 for full coverage and they wanted $4500 after adding him as a student. I ended up going with liability only for $1700. I don't see how a 70+ year old experienced pilot is a higher liability risk than a student pilot. I would keep shopping. I was able to get him 100 hours in that year and the full coverage went down to $1200 now.

Larry
 
Another reason not to go with an alternative engine. I’m at $950 for full coverage $65k hull. 1400 tt. 900 in mm. 62yr old
 
I was quoted this morning $1001 for liability only,$500k coverage. RV-8, no violations or claims, 900+ hrs tailwheel, 110 hrs in RV-8, VFR, 76 yrs old. When I was in my early 70s, paid $283 liability on a RV-3 and a glider. Seems like age discrimination?
 
Seems like age discrimination?

It is not really age discrimination if the actuarial tables show greater accident frequency once a pilot hits a certain age. No different than that crazy insurance rates we see when our 16 year old's get added to the auto policy. Insurance is allowed to apply any criteria that is based upon actuarial tables, even if those categories happen to be race, sex or age. Not saying it is right or ethical, only that it is not illegal.

Larry
 
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I was quoted this morning $1001 for liability only,$500k coverage. RV-8, no violations or claims, 900+ hrs tailwheel, 110 hrs in RV-8, VFR, 76 yrs old. When I was in my early 70s, paid $283 liability on a RV-3 and a glider. Seems like age discrimination?

Does seem that way. $300 a year liability only $1M limits for -4. Almost 300 hours in my RV-4, 700+ tailwheel (most in a 48 C-140) and about 1000 total, VFR. 55 years old.

On paper, we look pretty close to the same except for age. Where we differ is your acquired wisdom and obvious talent for staying alive. Seems the actuarial tables fail to reflect those important attributes. My congrats, sir, on your success and may you continue to fly far into the future.
 
Joe,

Keep trying. I got back into aviation last year after 20 years away. I had a terrible time finding reasonable (in my mind and pocketbook) insurance on the RV-12 I had purchased.

Quotes ranged from $8K per year for liability and $75k hull down to $1200 for just liability. Then I finally found liability and hull (after 2 months) for around $1K. Apparently they all weight their actuarial tables differently! I think some of them were just fishing trying to see if they could get me to pay it. Of course, they all told me I wouldn't find it any cheaper. It's a scam, but it is what it is.

I'm 52, a hair over 5K total time, half of it turbine, 1000+ tailwheel, 40 different types, commercial, instrument, no incidents/accidents- blah, blah, blah. It didn't seem to matter.

I was so frustrated I almost sold the thing before I ever flew it! If you are financially comfortable with it, skip the hull coverage.

PM me if you want the info for the broker I finally went with.
 
I used to own a Yak-52. The first year I had it (1992) the hull and liability was $2,000. After a year with no issues I dropped the hull coverage and kept liability coverage for $300. A financial risk, but it worked out OK. I sold it after 10 years and a lot of fun.
 
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