VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.






VAF on Twitter:
@VansAirForceNet

  #81  
Old 12-18-2020, 03:49 PM
David Paule David Paule is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,572
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zolotiyeruki View Post
....The Prius hybrid systems have a very good reputation for reliability....
That's certainly been my own experience. However, after 14 years I needed to replace the nickle hydride traction battery. The old was was worth about $200 core and the replacement, a Toyota brand one, cost about $2,500 installed. For current technology lithium batteries, regardless of type, I think that a periodic battery replacement would need to be added to the operating cost like a Lycoming overhaul would need to be accounted for. And we should expect that the airplane batteries, storing a lot more energy than a Prius battery, will cost a lot more to replace.

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 12-18-2020, 03:55 PM
HAL Pilot's Avatar
HAL Pilot HAL Pilot is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Las Vegas NV
Posts: 396
Default

zolotiyeruki It's coming but probably not till the RV 17


https://player.vimeo.com/video/433741258


https://www.liquidpiston.com/
__________________
Pete

RV14A Tail kit 95%
Wing kit 95%
Fuselage QB in progress... finally delivered 18months late

RV 14 WIKI in Drop Box

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xu5p6f4l7...bU0ck0pJa?dl=0


---For Edit Access drop me a PM with your Email address.

EAA 1300
Donation Paid 18,19,20,21 Military exempt
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 09-03-2022, 07:49 PM
robert@jonesrv10.net robert@jonesrv10.net is offline
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 85
Default

So far there is nothing that comes close to the power to weight ratio of good old fashioned petroleum. It is also quite quick to refuel.

Electric cars still donít make any sense without government subsidies. The up front cost is still quite high and the batteries wonít last the life of the car. Replacement batteries are expensive. When you add up all the costs for the life of the car a similar sized gas powered car is still the cheapest.

I can imagine batteries getting light enough and cheap enough to be used in local trainers. That is the first place electric aircraft might be competitive with those that run petroleum. The lower maintenance costs would be helpful in reducing overall costs.

Of course they would look better sooner with huge government subsidies.
__________________
Robert Jones
Las Vegas, NV
RV10 N810K
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 09-03-2022, 08:12 PM
RVbySDI's Avatar
RVbySDI RVbySDI is online now
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tuttle, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,768
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert@jonesrv10.net View Post
So far there is nothing that comes close to the power to weight ratio of good old fashioned petroleum. It is also quite quick to refuel.

Electric cars still donít make any sense without government subsidies. The up front cost is still quite high and the batteries wonít last the life of the car. Replacement batteries are expensive. When you add up all the costs for the life of the car a similar sized gas powered car is still the cheapest.

I can imagine batteries getting light enough and cheap enough to be used in local trainers. That is the first place electric aircraft might be competitive with those that run petroleum. The lower maintenance costs would be helpful in reducing overall costs.

Of course they would look better sooner with huge government subsidies.
Fully agree with your position concerning the economics of electric vehicles. I would posit however there are individuals buying electric vehicles motivated by other factors besides the economy of the purchase and ownership of them.

Somewhat analogous to us aircraft owners in general. There are other viable reasons we aircraft owners find for justification of spending money on our passion for flight.

Live Long and Prosper!
__________________
RVBYSDI
Steve
RV9A
https://rvwings.com

Live Long And Prosper! 🖖🏻
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 09-04-2022, 05:08 AM
plehrke's Avatar
plehrke plehrke is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Defiance, MO
Posts: 2,053
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert@jonesrv10.net View Post

I can imagine batteries getting light enough and cheap enough to be used in local trainers. That is the first place electric aircraft might be competitive with those that run petroleum. The lower maintenance costs would be helpful in reducing overall costs.

Of course they would look better sooner with huge government subsidies.
It seems at my airport there are quite a few Cubs and Cub clones that just fly the pattern as well as a Cherokee 140 that never gets more than a couple miles from the airport. These are flown mostly by older guys that just want to get in the air and hack around. I find that as I have gotten older I just like to go fly around locally for 45-60 minutes (see attachment below showing my recent flights). This plus the light sport training aircraft constitute a significant number of flights at my airport. (Still wonder if you get your light sport ticket flying electric whether there will need to be some short training needed to also fly gas). All these flights are within current electric airplane technology level.

I think there may already be a market for electric powered just not yet the economics or mindset for electric. I love the flying qualities of my RV even if just burning holes in the sky. I think if Van offered ether a smaller RV-15 that was electric powered with the performance of a super Cub or an Electric powered RV-4 with equivalent performance, I would be interested in building it.

I do think it is quite a ways off for typical GA cross country and definitely commercial to go electric.

Click image for larger version

Name:	15BFBA03-7C86-4B3C-9BEA-F88AFFC1EA35.jpg
Views:	62
Size:	353.3 KB
ID:	30453
__________________
Philip
RV-6A - flying 1000+ hours
Donated to VAF yearly since 2007. Why? Because it is worth every penny and more.

There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. óMARK TWAIN
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 09-15-2022, 04:27 PM
Mikeyb Mikeyb is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pasadena ca
Posts: 242
Default

It doesnít take me long to get my RV fix either. 30 minutes will do it.
I Think of what it might sound like and the dynamic braking that might be available.
If a 150 KW/2500 RPM engine became available I would be tempted to try it.
__________________
Mike
N36MB
SN 83764
IO360-M1B
Hartzell Composite CS
Phase 1 complete 10/29/22
KAJO
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 09-16-2022, 03:57 PM
FlyinTiger FlyinTiger is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Gilbert, SC
Posts: 359
Default

Do any of you posting here drive an electric car?

I charge my Tesla for 1/10th the cost of gasoline. I charge at night when the grid is mostly unused.

At 245,000 miles on a 2014 model, I expect to drive another 200,000 without replacing the battery. When I replace it the battery becomes high quality ore and will be used to make another battery.

My Tesla is a single speed gear reduction that has been extremely reliable. I could see a constant speed prop and electric gear reduction flying for two hours with a 45 minute reserve. Yes, take off and land aircraft weight will be the same.

Internal combustion engine (ICE) cars are converted to electric all the time. Vans likes simplicity. With so few moving parts an electric motor is quite simple. Where the simplicity fails Vans is in the digital control of the electric vs analog control of 1940s ICE technology.

Charging my converted RV at home in my hangar at night will be no problem. In fact, way more convenient for me than having to go to an airport with a fuel pump. 99% of my flights are already a 1 hour excursion. If Iím going to lunch it is two flights of 1 hour each at most.

For long cross countries (i.e. SC to Airventure or SC to CA) I can take another airplane running on whatever fuel is available at airports along the way. It will be decades before 250kW charging will be available at airports.

Just look how long the recently approved 100UL took to get through the beaurocratic system. Experimental gives us the freedom to press ahead with safe alternatives without the red tape.

Iím looking forward to seeing those who know what they are doing leading the way with instant torque electric options. Iím already enjoying watching the Continental diesels that are reliable, modern torque machines.
__________________
AL
<><

Launching from SC45
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 09-16-2022, 06:23 PM
Freemasm Freemasm is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Orlando
Posts: 956
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyinTiger View Post
Do any of you posting here drive an electric car?

I charge my Tesla for 1/10th the cost of gasoline. I charge at night when the grid is mostly unused.

At 245,000 miles on a 2014 model, I expect to drive another 200,000 without replacing the battery. When I replace it the battery becomes high quality ore and will be used to make another battery.

My Tesla is a single speed gear reduction that has been extremely reliable. I could see a constant speed prop and electric gear reduction flying for two hours with a 45 minute reserve. Yes, take off and land aircraft weight will be the same.

Internal combustion engine (ICE) cars are converted to electric all the time. Vans likes simplicity. With so few moving parts an electric motor is quite simple. Where the simplicity fails Vans is in the digital control of the electric vs analog control of 1940s ICE technology.

Charging my converted RV at home in my hangar at night will be no problem. In fact, way more convenient for me than having to go to an airport with a fuel pump. 99% of my flights are already a 1 hour excursion. If Iím going to lunch it is two flights of 1 hour each at most.

For long cross countries (i.e. SC to Airventure or SC to CA) I can take another airplane running on whatever fuel is available at airports along the way. It will be decades before 250kW charging will be available at airports.

Just look how long the recently approved 100UL took to get through the beaurocratic system. Experimental gives us the freedom to press ahead with safe alternatives without the red tape.

Iím looking forward to seeing those who know what they are doing leading the way with instant torque electric options. Iím already enjoying watching the Continental diesels that are reliable, modern torque machines.
See posts 36 and 38. Charging your Tesla is directly related to the costs of natural gas and coal. BTW, your green vehicle also makes plenty of pollution, but does so "remotely". If you take HC emissions out of the equation (by relying upon renewable energy), these costs would skyrocket. As the Levelized Cost of Electrical Storage continues to decrease more in-line with the Levelized Cost of Electricity, the costs between base load, peak, and off peak electricity will flatten-> won't matter what time of day you buy electricity for your e-vehicle.

This all assumes the 48-1 energy density issue for batteries versus HC fuels magically collapses. This a a great article, BTW if you haven't already read it.

https://www.flyingmag.com/the-future...s-steam-power/

There are plenty of Electric Aircraft companies that will gladly take your investment money. Personal fortunes will be made off of these investors.

I'm a big fan of pushing and advancing tech but you have to know all of the boundary conditions. It's just not that simple; the tech (bounded by weight restrictions) or the economics.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 09-16-2022, 06:59 PM
sailvi767 sailvi767 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 1,528
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyinTiger View Post
Do any of you posting here drive an electric car?

I charge my Tesla for 1/10th the cost of gasoline. I charge at night when the grid is mostly unused.

At 245,000 miles on a 2014 model, I expect to drive another 200,000 without replacing the battery. When I replace it the battery becomes high quality ore and will be used to make another battery.

My Tesla is a single speed gear reduction that has been extremely reliable. I could see a constant speed prop and electric gear reduction flying for two hours with a 45 minute reserve. Yes, take off and land aircraft weight will be the same.

Internal combustion engine (ICE) cars are converted to electric all the time. Vans likes simplicity. With so few moving parts an electric motor is quite simple. Where the simplicity fails Vans is in the digital control of the electric vs analog control of 1940s ICE technology.

Charging my converted RV at home in my hangar at night will be no problem. In fact, way more convenient for me than having to go to an airport with a fuel pump. 99% of my flights are already a 1 hour excursion. If Iím going to lunch it is two flights of 1 hour each at most.

For long cross countries (i.e. SC to Airventure or SC to CA) I can take another airplane running on whatever fuel is available at airports along the way. It will be decades before 250kW charging will be available at airports.

Just look how long the recently approved 100UL took to get through the beaurocratic system. Experimental gives us the freedom to press ahead with safe alternatives without the red tape.

Iím looking forward to seeing those who know what they are doing leading the way with instant torque electric options. Iím already enjoying watching the Continental diesels that are reliable, modern torque machines.
The problem is the Tesla battery package weighs about 1100 lbs. it generates enough power in the recommended use range to provide 4 hours of driving generating about 40hp at 65 MPH. That probably translates to 1 hour at the 120HP we probably need at cruise. With the need to carry 1100lbs all the time you are looking at 2200 lb landing weight. That means you have to beef up the airframe and probable wing area. Now the aircraft is even heavier. Batteries are going to need to get vastly better before it becomes a reality.
__________________
RV-6 sold
F-1 Rocket
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 09-16-2022, 07:09 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 3,280
Default Tesla

I think y'all are going the wrong way. Almost a century ago Tesla (the original one) successfully demonstrated wireless energy transmission. He never was able to go large scale as funding for the project was pulled. (interesting story)

Point is, if you had wireless energy transmission, batteries wouldn't be an issue for any vehicle; neither would range or endurance...
__________________
Bob
EAA Tech Counselor
Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10-ER
N464RL
In Paint at Evoke!
Garmin G3X-T, Barrett EFII S32, CAI, MTV-9B

Dues+ Paid 2022,...Thanks DR+
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:31 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.