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New Wing Tips

Squeak

Well Known Member
I was asking at the Van's tent at Osh about the landing lights for my RV-7A wing tips and was told that they do not have lights for the existing tip but they will be shipping a new designed tip that will accept the tip lights that Vans sells. Guess I got my wings about two months too early for the change. Told me that they are always upgrading the kits. Anyone want to buy a set of wing tip?
Squeak
 
Wingtip lights

Go to Creativair.com - they have wingtip lights and landing lights that fit in the current wingtips.

Dennis Glaeser
7A - empennage done, wings come next week!
 
I do not know about the batman style or squared off. I just asked about lighting for the wing tips and was told the tip landing lights offered now were not that great and that they would have a new wing tip for the 7 that Vans will be offering the landing light kit for. I will likely install the Creativair.com when I get to that point but for right now I am building on. Also Dennis thanks for the tip.
Squeak
 
I took a look at them yesterday at Van's.

Squared off like a six.

and it looks like they chopped off 2 inches on the front light enclosure so now it's aft far enough so as to accept a 3" round light.

they are being shipped with the kits going out. think he said they'll fit all wings.

also was told it's NOT a NEW design; it's a redesign. :rolleyes:

mark
 
New Tips???

I just visited Van's right after Osh, and they wouldn't tell me anything about RV-7 tips. I'm almost finished with my empennage, and I'm planning out how I want to set up my lighting.

How did you find out about the "redesigned" tips? I would really like to know if they are better than the leading edge lights, or if I should just settle for the Duckworks setup.
 
I found out by post number 1 in this tread.

It's pure preference I guess. Neat thing is, there is more room for a larger light.

I'm sticking with my sheared tips. also a couple yrs ago, I thought someone determined that the sheared tips were faster.

I was told they won't take the old ones back. HTH (hope that helps.)

mark
 
I was actually wondering how you found out that the opening for the landing light has been enlarged. I'm curious about which other lights will fit if I rig them up on my own...

Who did you talk to at Van's about the redesigned tip?

Maybe, I can call them and see if the have any dimensions I can work with.
 
mark manda said:
I'm sticking with my sheared tips. also a couple yrs ago, I thought someone determined that the sheared tips were faster.

I asked Van's about the faster thing and they told me it was purely cosmetic.
 
Interesting post... my wings ship in late Sept, so by the looks of it, new tips for me (assuming they come in the wing kit and not the finish kit).

A little disappointed though... I kinda like the batman look. :)
 
Confused?

OK, now I am really confused. As I understand it, in the beginning, they had the "squared off" tips with no lighting in them. Then someone in the aftermarket world came up with a front corner lighting package that you had to cut and fiberglass into the tip. (The alternative was nav lights on the tip of the tip. Then along came the "Batman" tip,with lights in the forward corners.

As I undestand the original poster on this thread, there is now a NEWER option, a squared-off tip with the embeded lights? Not being a fan of the swoop (it just doesn't match the tail), I called Van's this morning, telling them what I had read here. They had no idea what I was talking about. I could buyt the Batman tips,or the older square tips and cut in the lights with the aftermarket kit that Van's now sells. They were unaware of anything newer than the Batman tips.

The fact is, I am finished with my tips, and really don't want to go through the rework required to fit new ones, but it is tempting - if they existed....I'm just confused (as usual...)... :confused:

Paul Dye
RV-8 (baffle seals this week...)
 
Ive wondered if there might be some utility adding winglets to the wingtip, like so many of the composite makers use. I love the look of the Lancair tips.

As I understand it, the winglets are supposed to reduce drag by breaking up wingtip votex generation. :confused: Has anyone tried it?
 
Winglets work to reduce induced drag. However, you can't simply slap on a pair of winglets without considering other implications. The bending moments of the wing will change and an analysis should be performed to see if the current spar/wing root, etc is up to the task.

For example, on the Boeing 737-NG series, if you took delivery of a non-winglet aircraft and want to add winglets later, you have to ensure that the proper structural reinforcements were made (this is standard on deliveries after a certain date.
 
Winglets not good for RVs

cobra said:
Ive wondered if there might be some utility adding winglets to the wingtip, like so many of the composite makers use. I love the look of the Lancair tips.

As I understand it, the winglets are supposed to reduce drag by breaking up wingtip votex generation. :confused: Has anyone tried it?

Adding to what others have already said:

The drag-reducing effect of the winglet is more-or-less equivalent to what you would get if you mounted the winglet horizontally and called it more wing. The difference is that you don't increase the span (good for airliners in tight parking spaces) and you don't increase the root bending moment on the wing *much*, because the inward lift of the winglet doesn't have much moment arm. For that reason it makes for a good bolt-on improvement for existing jet aircraft that need some extra cruise efficiency (or marketing appeal).

The downside is that you only get a worthwhile benefit of reducing induced drag when your induced drag is a significant fraction of your cruise drag. In an RV, that's simply not the case. You would have to be flying near the minimum drag indicated airspeed (i.e. very slow or high altitude) for induced drag to even be half the total drag.

All in all, not worth the weight, cost, engineering time, and loss of visiblity out the wingtip.
 
Winglet

Alex said:
All in all, not worth the weight, cost, engineering time, and loss of visiblity out the wingtip.
I think this is true, but I'll bet if someone comes up with an RV winglet kit, they will sell a lot of them.
 
To me the beauty of the RV-series of aircraft is that they don't have little fixes all over them like winglets, staggard leading edges, vortex generators (ok, some people put 'em on there afterward, but they aren't part of the design), etc. The Sport Aviation flying qualities review of the RV-10 a while back hit the nail on the head -- the RV is a good design and doesn't need to be 'fixed' by sticking random parts all over it that affect the airflow in some way.
 
New Wing Tip Pictures?

Was wondering if someone could post a photo of the new style wing tips here. Just curious to see them.
 
Alex said:
Was wondering if someone could post a photo of the new style wing tips here. Just curious to see them.
My wings are scheduled to ship in just under two weeks... I'll post a pic then if someone has already done so. I am really curious to see which tips I get... hopefully the new ones.
 
Maybe because you're in the loop for delivery of your kit, Van's could email you some pics so you can choose the tips you really want? Worth a try...

Darrell
 
New Tips?

Wings came today... and I suppose I got the new tips, but I don't really know. What do you think?

The trailing edge is squared off... no swept-back batman look.
050929_003.jpg


It is 6" from front to back of the cut-out for the lights.
050929_004.jpg
 
Yup, They are different!

They are different than the ones I got a little over a year ago - mine have the curved trailing edge (the batman swoop), so this is a newer (or at least different) design...

Paul Dye
 
I took a steel tape to my old sheared tips, look just shy of an inch. makes a big difference.

wingtipone8vb.jpg


wingtiptwo4mm.jpg
 
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Hmm...

I was hoping they had gone back to something that would accomodate a 2-strobe layout, but apparently not.
 
OK guys here is the wing tip that they told me about at Osh. I just got this off Van's Site. The new wing tip number is W-715-1. My wings were shipped in July and are W-715 so the light kit will not fit.
Bummer!!!!!!
Squeak


Tip Landing Light Kit
Complete Landing Light System


Description


A Van's Aircraft design specifically for the RV-7 and RV-8 2 place aircraft. This kit offers a complete landing light system that integrates with the wing tip lens and position lights of RV-7's and RV-8's. One kit provides everything needed to install two 75 watt lights in each wing tip resulting in a total of a 300 watts of wide angle light dispersion for recognition and landing.
The light system WILL NOT fit tips with curved trailing edges like the W-715 nor will it fit the older tip W-415. This light system is ONLY available for wing tips with part number which have shipped in all RV-7/7A and
RV-8/8A kits since August 2005.


Kit Contains all parts necessary for 2 W-715-1 Wing Tips
Part Number = LL 7/8 MR-16
Price = $125.00
 
Squeak, Thanks for posting!!! Now we have confirmation, the cut-out is bigger, 6" as opposed to 4.5".

Edit: I should also say thanks to Mark Manda for posting the pictures with the tape measure I didn't see until now. D'oh! :eek:
 
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With the angle there on the cutout it looks like it will be difficult to get the lights aligned toward the centerline and out front where you need them ... ?
 
Converting older wingtips to improve wing tip lighting

After seeing Van's picture showing the differences in the wing tips, it would appear that the older tips could be modified to be identical, at least for the cutout. If Van's sold replacement plexi light covers for the new tips, then it would make a conversion even easier.

James
 
Wingtip lights

TShort said:
With the angle there on the cutout it looks like it will be difficult to get the lights aligned toward the centerline and out front where you need them ... ?

The CreativeAir lights allow for the angle, that isn't really the problem. It's that they are set back and the fore-aft part of the cutout blocks the light toward the center.

Dennis Glaeser
7A Wings (prosealing the second tank)
 
Wing Tip Lights

Has anyone seen the light kit for the new W-715-1. The description says 2 lights per wing tip.


Curt Welge
RV-7QB
St. Jacob, IL (3K6)
 
Question on wing tips. I am finishing up a wing kit started in 2001 by a meticulous craftsmen that was basically built to Quick-build completeness. The kit has the older droop wing tips in the kit. I could not find a reason for changing to the current wing tip on the 7 wings. Does anyone know why? Was it a performance issue? A cosmetic "eye of the beholder" issue? I called Van's asking but got no answer of why (they are slammed busy).

I'm asking myself is it better to get new tips before I work though mounting the original tips?

Thanks for any insight anyone can shed on this.
 
Question on wing tips. I am finishing up a wing kit started in 2001/// The kit has the older droop wing tips in the kit. I could not find a reason for changing to the current wing tip on the 7 wings.

Does anyone know why? Was it a performance issue? A cosmetic "eye of the beholder" issue? I called Van's asking but got no answer of why (they are slammed busy).

I'm asking myself is it better to get new tips before I work though mounting the original tips?
First this is an old thread, 16 yo. I can help but not sure what "droop wing tips" are? I think you mean the "Batwing tips".

So lets go back in history. Van made 3 wing tips in their history up to the RV8. They all physically fit on a RV3/4/6/7/8 wing. The wing cross section is the same. The RV9/10/12 have different airfoils so their wing tips are different.

Just for discussion the first type was the 415 wing tip for RV3/RV4/RV6/RV8*, pre RV7. This is a "Horner Style" wing tip (a standard term and used on all kinds of aircraft). The cross secton of the 415, inboard to outboard is flat on top and curved on bottom.

The other wing tip was the 715 and 715-1. The 715 came out with the early run of RV7 kits. Later it was changed to then 715-1. It is unlikely you have the 415 unless the original builder requested it or traded wingtip. The 415 was not the standard for the RV7 kit as far as I know. The RV8* I believe started with a 415 and later went to the 715/715-1.

Van produced the 715 and later a modified version 715-1 which became standard. The 715 was discontinued. It is likely you have the 715 which came out with the early RV7 Kits. Both 715 wing tips are identical for the most part. The 715 cross section is symmetrical from top to bottom surfaces unlike the 415. It came with a pocket/recess for Nav/Strobe in the front outboard corner, with a Plexi cover. The most distinct and obvious difference of the 715 to the 715-1 is the 715 trailing edge (TE) is flared out. The slight radiused curve resembles the TE web of a bat wing, thus the name. It is not especially a large flair but you notice it if you are looking for it, because it is not straight inline with trailing edge of wing. Beauty in eyes of beholder.

The 715-1 is identical but they made the Nav/Strobe pocket larger so fitting a landing light in there was easier. The other big change is they got rid of the flare on the trailing edge and just went straight across in line with the trailing edge.

Which one is better? Performance wise no one knows. It is unlikely there is any significant difference one could measure accurately that makes real world difference. I am not saying there is no difference in performance, but you would be hard pressed to measure it. Also if you gain something with a wing tip it is likely you also lost some performance at the other end.

Is 415 better than the 715 series? Some say yeah some say nay. Is the 715 better than the 715-1? I don't think we know but people make claims. The 715-1 looks better? Really beauty in eyes of beholder. I know some loved the 415 look and put those on their RV7 just for looks. I think they look old fashion but the aerodynamic principles are solid. Some report better performance with the 715-1 Bat wingtip. When talking better the numbers are so small it is always hard to determine "micro knots". I am guessing Van got some complaints about look and felt the performance gain was so small a straight trailing edge was better.

The other "issue" is the Nav/Strobe. The 415 I recall came with no place for a Nav/Strobe, no recess. So it was standard to mounted them externally on the edge of the wing tip. This really is proper to get required coverage and with rear facing white NAV lights on the wingtip you don't need a NAV light on the rudder. However there was a kit for the 415 where you could cut the wingtip recess in and lay up new recess with lens, to fit a light and Nav/Strobe.

The 715 came with the pocket but is was smaller than the 715-1, which made fitting both the NAV/Strobe and a Landing/Taxi/Recognition light in there a bit of a challenge. I have the original 715 on my RV7 and have Nav/Strobe and Landing Light. With the advent of smaller powerful LED lights it was not an issue. However the 715-1 is a larger pocket/recess. That is no reason to change. The down side of the 715 are the lens covers I recall were out of production and hard to find. The 415 asymmetric shape lends it self to a bigger recess (with the add on kit). The symmetric 715-1 even though it's bigger recess than the 715, it still does not have as much space for a landing light as a modified 415. The shape of the wing tip has less cross section area for a recess.

Back to Performance. Does that Bat flare help? Some say yes. There are many people who have modified the Bat wingtips further and report some improvement.
ai
Are there other wing tips out there? Yes other folks make wing tips. One post in the last month from VAF Forum member made smalllose out. That has Pros and Cons as well. A wing tip is not going to make radical changes in performance, no night and day difference. However lowering wing area will increase stall sf

Over all a well build RV that is in rig, good fit finish, tight engine cowl and baffling, kept light weight will perform very well with any of these wing tips. If I were you I'd use what you got (still not sure what a droop is but assuming Batwing). You can always drill out the fasteners and put a new wing tips on. If you don't like the Bat flare you can trim it and glass over it.

PS I assume your wing tips are Gelcoat? I know Van gel coated most of his fiberglass stuff, including wing tips. Not sure if he ever stopped as he did with his cowl layups. Gel coat adds weight and can telegraph surface cracks (not structural) into the paint after many years. If I were you I would sand most of it off. You don't have to sand off every square inch just most or at least reduce the thickness. Sometimes Van's gelcoat was thick which is more likely to crack with heat and vibration, which was a factor with cowls. He did stop gel coating the cowls. However my 715 wing tip came with gelcoat.
 
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Nice history write-up George :)

Talking wing tips, I remember having seen a couple of -4s without, yes sans, wingtips, at what was still called Oshkosh. Flat alu sheet on the end rib… sure the lightest of options out there ;)
 
George is now the official historian for Van's! Thanks for that lesson, it was informative. Yes old thread, I dug up this old thread trying to search for an answer to my question before asking something that has been answered before.

Yes Batwing = "drooping". The first time I saw the wing tips, they were leaned up against my utility trailer as we were looking things over and inventorying at the guys house. In that orientation they looked to be drooping, it's stuck in my head now.

Yes Gel-coat, and on the tail feather tips as well. I just went to look and found the lens for the wing tip lights, still wrapped up in wax paper, not cut in half yet, they looked good and clear.

I'm not pro or opposed to the look, I wanted to make sure of the reason for the change by Van's from a performance perspective.

Thanks again,

Scott
 
Question on wing tips. I am finishing up a wing kit started in 2001 by a meticulous craftsmen that was basically built to Quick-build completeness. The kit has the older droop wing tips in the kit. I could not find a reason for changing to the current wing tip on the 7 wings. Does anyone know why? Was it a performance issue? A cosmetic "eye of the beholder" issue? I called Van's asking but got no answer of why (they are slammed busy).

I'm asking myself is it better to get new tips before I work though mounting the original tips?

Thanks for any insight anyone can shed on this.

Your main difference in the 715 and 715-1 is the light notch. I had your tips on my early -7 kit and modified the notch to the later dimensions (715-1) so landing lights would fit in the notch. Tip lights work fine at night for landing and taxi, if you were wondering.
 
Minor correction to George's post. While the RV-4, -6, -7, & -8 share the same wing cross section, the RV-3 has a shorter chord and uses a slightly smaller tip.
 
Minor correction to George's post. While the RV-4, -6, -7, & -8 share the same wing cross section, the RV-3 has a shorter chord and uses a slightly smaller tip.

Yup

I wouldn’t consider the comments regarding gelcoat to be valid any longer. Parts made 20+ years ago are not a reflection of parts made today.
 
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Another wingtip option

And by now hopefully most people are aware that there is yet another option for wingtips for your RV-4,6,7,8.

HP Aircraft LLC is making "minimum wetted area" wingtips that take almost 14 sq ft of wetted area away compared to the W-715-1 tips. These have been race-proven on the sport course at Reno to be 2.5 kt faster than a flat 'end cap' type tip, and we expect something like 3--4 kt faster than the W-715-1 tips.

These will be especially beneficial for those of you that rarely cruise at high altitude and spend most of your flying time below, oh, say 10,000 ft. We will soon be doing flight testing on my RV-8 to try to nail down exactly where that cross-over is, and what the speed gain is at various conditions.

Tips are currently available without lights, and under development, soon to be available with light pockets and lenses. (We just finished the molds, and are working on getting a vendor to make lenses for us).

You can find a link to the HP Aircraft page for these new tips on the left margin of the VAF "Previous Day's VAF News" page.
 
Old gelcoat tips

Yup

I wouldn’t consider the comments regarding gelcoat to be valid any longer. Parts made 20+ years ago are not a reflection of parts made today.

Ummm. I have some of those old wing tips that are yet to be installed, is it still OK to use them and is there any extra preparation that could help to alleviate the issues? This is for an RV-6A kit that shipped in 1993 (empennage) to 2000 (finishing kit).
 
... Tip lights work fine at night for landing and taxi, if you were wondering.
Bill, do you have the tip lights pointed down so that they are good in the "nose high" taxi position or just straight out? Or one straight out and one down?
 
Mickey, we generally have one pair of lights aimed for flight attitude, and one pair aimed low to hit the ground when taxiing. Controlled by separate circuits
 
Mickey, we generally have one pair of lights aimed for flight attitude, and one pair aimed low to hit the ground when taxiing. Controlled by separate circuits
Thanks Steve. Just hope I have enough "down" available to point it to the runway.

IMG_8969-768x768.jpeg
 
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