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Got my LODA for BFR already!

There’s always that one guy in the back of the classroom that doesn’t get the word, isn’t there….. ;)

Will be interested to se when the Chicago FSDO gets their knuckles rapped with the ruler!

Apparently the ruler came down just after your post. Chicago FSDO just reached out asking if I received it. Apparently it is done, but they are having issues with the system sending the email out. They reached out to see if it arrived. Courteous enough to check that it worked or didn't

I must say, I don't think that I have EVER seen a gov't agency respond so quickly to an issue. Hats off to the FAA for making this a relative non-event.

Larry
 
Almost off topic humor

Lubbock is excellent. Maybe the best FSDO in US.

When I flew for Delta we had a Ft.Worth Center controller on the jump seat doing a FAM flight. In a lull I was joking with him and he asked how we viewed Ft. Worth Center controllers. I told him we thought that Chicago was probably the best and ranked FWC 3rd. He thought that was great but I had him hooked. He had to ask who was second and told him all the other centers tied for second.
I love the FAA!
 
Apparently it is done, but they are having issues with the system sending the email out. They reached out to see if it arrived

I have never heard that excuse before. :) That buys them a couple of days.

STL sent instant auto confirmation of receiving but no LODA yet. Only been a few days.
 
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FAA's interpretation is that "anything" gained is considered compensation. If the CFI logs the time, he has gained additional flight time.

Mel please. So with my +2,000' hours of dual given, another 1.5 hts is gaining what compensation? Experience for another rating. Ha ha. I have +10k hours and every rating you can have except rotor and airship. Logging hours is not compensation. Show me where that is written out. OR defined.
 
Mel please. So with my +2,000' hours of dual given, another 1.5 hts is gaining what compensation? Experience for another rating. Ha ha. I have +10k hours and every rating you can have except rotor and airship. Logging hours is not compensation. Show me where that is written out. OR defined.

A simple google search turns up this
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...013/hancock - (2013) legal interpretation.pdf
and
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...lliamsassoc - (2014) legal interpretation.pdf

They both share this key paragraph:
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has construed compensation broadly. Compensation "does not require a profit, a profit motive, or the actual payment of funds." Legal Interpretation to Joseph Kirwan (May 27,2005). Rather, compensation is the receipt of anything of value. The FAA has previously found that reimbursement of expenses (fuel, oil, transportation, lodging, meals, etc.), accumulation of flight time, and goodwill in the form of expect future economic benefit could be considered compensation. Legal Interpretation to John W. Harrington (Oct. 23, 1997); Blakey v. Murray, NTSB Order No. EA-5061 (Oct. 28,2003).

-c
 
Seems like the FAA has their LODA rubber stamp machine set to high.

2nd FAR 91.319 states Flight Training not transition training. A "flight review" (formally BFR] is considered Flight Training by the regulations. And if you want to get an instrument Comp check in an EAB or even training towards another rating, you can do it in your eab with a LODA.
 
My airplane is registered in my name. But my son just got his tailwheel endorsement and needs transition training.

I sent one email with the aircraft info and both of our info. I have no idea if this was the correct approach!
 
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I send one email with the aircraft info and both of our info. I have no idea if this was the correct approach!

The reality is, nobody knows if it's the correct approach - including the FAA. Everyone is making it up as we go, apparently.
 
My airplane is registered in my name. But my son just got his tailwheel endorsement and needs transition training.

I sent one email with the aircraft info and both of our info. I have no idea if this was the correct approach!

The FAA guidance (who knows if it's correct?) is that with only 1 LODA, training is allowed in an EAB, as long as there is no payment for the use of the airplane (you don't charge your son, do you?). This LODA can be held by either the CFI, or the airplane owner/operator.
 
My airplane is registered in my name. But my son just got his tailwheel endorsement and needs transition training.

I sent one email with the aircraft info and both of our info. I have no idea if this was the correct approach!

We (me and Louise) sent one email for each pilot listing all three airplanes on each. My LODA came today with my name and all three airplanes, so I expect hers will be the same. Listing two pilots on one email? Who knows….but it appears to me that the LODA is issued to the PILOT, not the airplanes….
 
RNO got me two LODA's this morning, one for me in my plane, one for me as CFI. Pleasantly surprised the CFI one is not tied to a make and model, as the application implied. I can instruct in any Experimental I am qualified in (certificate-wise).
 
We (me and Louise) sent one email for each pilot listing all three airplanes on each. My LODA came today with my name and all three airplanes, so I expect hers will be the same. Listing two pilots on one email? Who knows….but it appears to me that the LODA is issued to the PILOT, not the airplanes….

Are you both the registered "owners" on each of those airplanes? This is a question in our household.
 
LODAs received from PDX FSDO

I sent an email request for my “owner” LODA late Thursday evening and received my LODA from the Portland FSDO today. I know one other request that was sent Friday for owner and CFII that was also received from the Portland FSDO today.

Regards,
 
Here is the general problem with LODA being issued in terms of getting IFR rating training your plane. The LODA being issued references the document in "Notification of Policy for Flight Training in Certain Aircraft" in the Federal Register. That document has the following text:

"The FAA generally limits LODAs to training that can only be accomplished in aircraft with experimental certificates and directs its inspectors that, with a few exceptions, LODAs should not be issued to permit flight training in experimental aircraft leading toward the issuance of a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege."

People here seem to be over looking this. Seems like you would specifically need a LODA with specific text that exempts your from this requirement. Anyone have that? This has really depressed me.
 
Here is the general problem with LODA being issued in terms of getting IFR rating training your plane. The LODA being issued references the document in "Notification of Policy for Flight Training in Certain Aircraft" in the Federal Register. That document has the following text:

"The FAA generally limits LODAs to training that can only be accomplished in aircraft with experimental certificates and directs its inspectors that, with a few exceptions, LODAs should not be issued to permit flight training in experimental aircraft leading toward the issuance of a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege."

People here seem to be over looking this. Seems like you would specifically need a LODA with specific text that exempts your from this requirement. Anyone have that? This has really depressed me.

No, no, no. You are reading stuff related to the ‘old’ LODA, which allowed for compensation for the airplane under very limited circumstances. The ‘new’ LODA does not allow direct compensation for the airplane, but does allow cfi’s compensation for any training.
 
I sent my LODA last Saturday, the10th. via their special email. Should come from the Atlanta FSDO. Nuutin:mad::confused::p:( Got a BFR coming up in August. Maybe I'll get it by then. But knowing my luck-------------------------------------------:confused::confused::mad::mad:
 
I have never heard that excuse before. :) That buys them a couple of days.

STL sent instant auto confirmation of receiving but no LODA yet. Only been a few days.

Actually, I think mine was the first he processed and was likely told that the system would generate the email with the LODA for me. I think he reached out to proactively determine if that system worked or not. Clearly a person that cared. When I told him I did not get it, he told me he would send it manually the next day. To my surprise, it showed up this morning, from an automated system email address, backing up his story.

Larry
 
Mel please. So with my +2,000' hours of dual given, another 1.5 hts is gaining what compensation? Experience for another rating. Ha ha. I have +10k hours and every rating you can have except rotor and airship. Logging hours is not compensation. Show me where that is written out. OR defined.

for MANY young pilots, hours are of value. Clearly, in your case they have minimal value. Problem here is that the FAA's position is that they have value and there is a risk that you would have to go to court to prove they have no value in your case.
 
My airplane is registered in my name. But my son just got his tailwheel endorsement and needs transition training.

I sent one email with the aircraft info and both of our info. I have no idea if this was the correct approach!

I am in the same boat - son getting PPL in my 6A.

The FAA position is that the LODA only applies to the owner of the EAB. With shared ownership, one LODA covers all owners. Two options for you. Have the CFI get a LODA (covers all of his students in EABs, I believe) or sell a small percentage of your EAB to your son. Only $1 is required to make it legal with a bill of sale. This is what I did. Just be sure he sells it back before you try to sell the plane.

Larry
 
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The FAA guidance (who knows if it's correct?) is that with only 1 LODA, training is allowed in an EAB, as long as there is no payment for the use of the airplane (you don't charge your son, do you?). This LODA can be held by either the CFI, or the airplane owner/operator.

From my read of the FAA position, the LODA applies ONLY to the owner of the EAB, not the operator. This was specific in the LODA I received this morning. It clearly authorized only ME, the owner, to train in the plane. The EAA document was clear that with shared ownership arrangements, only one owner need get a LODA and it would apply to all owners.

'Larry
 
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Here is the general problem with LODA being issued in terms of getting IFR rating training your plane. The LODA being issued references the document in "Notification of Policy for Flight Training in Certain Aircraft" in the Federal Register. That document has the following text:

"The FAA generally limits LODAs to training that can only be accomplished in aircraft with experimental certificates and directs its inspectors that, with a few exceptions, LODAs should not be issued to permit flight training in experimental aircraft leading toward the issuance of a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege."

People here seem to be over looking this. Seems like you would specifically need a LODA with specific text that exempts your from this requirement. Anyone have that? This has really depressed me.

That language doesn't really apply here. It first states a generalized opinion/position and not an official policy, so not relevant. It goes on to say that they SHOULD not ISSUE a LODA for that purpose. Once they actually ISSUE you one, that position is irrelevant, unless the LODA limits the type of training you can do. Mine did not and am confient it is boilerplate language.

Kind of like the official wording that states EABs cannot be flown over populated areas. Yes it is out there, but nobody enforces it. Don't even think it is in the op limits any more.

Larry
 
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I sent my LODA last Saturday, the10th. via their special email. Should come from the Atlanta FSDO. Nuutin:mad::confused::p:( Got a BFR coming up in August. Maybe I'll get it by then. But knowing my luck-------------------------------------------:confused::confused::mad::mad:

I sent mine to the same email Thursday evening, got the LODA from ATL FSDO Tuesday afternoon. I suspect yours will show up soon.
 
That language doesn't really apply here. It first states a generalized opinion/position and not an official policy, so not relevant. It goes on to say that they SHOULD not ISSUE a LODA for that purpose. Once they actually ISSUE you one, that position is irrelevant, unless the LODA limits the type of training you can do. Mine did not and am confient it is boilerplate language.

Kind of like the official wording that states EABs cannot be flown over populated areas. Yes it is out there, but nobody enforces it. Don't even think it is in the op limits any more.

Larry

I am sure hopping this is true! Otherwise because there is a line in the FAA LODA template they are using (number 5) that specifically references the federal register document that you to have to comply with that document, if true you are screwed on getting ratings and certs.
 
I sent mine to the same email Thursday evening, got the LODA from ATL FSDO Tuesday afternoon. I suspect yours will show up soon.


Hi Dave, Didn't realize there was another RV'er so close. You're just down 400 from me. I'm in Cumming. Based at LZU. Where you based??:):)
 
I am in the same boat - son getting PPL in my 6A.

The FAA position is that the LODA only applies to the owner of the EAB. With shared ownership, one LODA covers all owners. Two options for you. Have the CFI get a LODA (covers all of his students in EABs, I believe) or sell a small percentage of your EAB to your son. Only $1 is required to make it legal with a bill of sale. This is what I did. Just be sure he sells it back before you try to sell the plane.

Larry

Is this a handshake kind of thing where you sold him a percentage for $1? Or did you actually change the registration?
 
Hi Dave, Didn't realize there was another RV'er so close. You're just down 400 from me. I'm in Cumming. Based at LZU. Where you based??:):)

Live in Alpharetta, based at LZU also, hangared at Air Harbor. There are a few of us on this side of town.
 
Is this a handshake kind of thing where you sold him a percentage for $1? Or did you actually change the registration?

I did a bill of sale and sold him 5% of the plane for $1. No issue for me, as I plan to give him the plane eventually. I did not register it with the FAA and have no idea if I am obigated to do so. I have no idea how partial ownership works. I presume it will be enough for this circumstance, as I don't feel the FAA is out to violate me on this issue. If it wasn't a family member, I suspect there may be more scrutiny as it looks like I am targetting a loophole. But selling a share to a family member shouldn't raise any eyebrows.

Larry
 
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Oak FSDO

Okay, I apologize. After posting that the OAK FSDO was the worst, I received my LODAs (covering me as owner receiving, and as cfi giving, instruction) this morning.
For those wondering about getting their son, friend, etc., instruction in their plane, my loda says “owner(or delegate) may…”. Another word for the lawyers to decode, but I presume your delegate is someone flying with your permission.
 
Okay, I apologize. After posting that the OAK FSDO was the worst, I received my LODAs (covering me as owner receiving, and as cfi giving, instruction) this morning.
For those wondering about getting their son, friend, etc., instruction in their plane, my loda says “owner(or delegate) may…”. Another word for the lawyers to decode, but I presume your delegate is someone flying with your permission.

Good catch. I missed that.
 
I sent my email on Friday also, but haven't heard back from MKE FSDO as of yet. Hopefully soon.

UPDATE: Got my LODA from MKE FSDO today. As others have discovered and reported, this system seems to be working much better than many FAA processes. Good on 'em!
 
Live in Alpharetta, based at LZU also, hangared at Air Harbor. There are a few of us on this side of town.

I'm based 2 doors down from EAA 690.;

If there's a few of us, we should all get together and have a few RV beers. Maybe an RV burger too.

I'm at 678 807 6161

Don
 
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Law of unintended consequences

For those contemplating selling a 5% ownership share to a friend or family member: back when I was in a 182 partnership, I asked our insurance agent, ‘If one of my partners has an accident, do I have any liability exposure?” Her answer was, “The plaintiff’s lawyers will come after everyone with the remotest connection to the airplane. They might not win, but they will drag everyone into court.” Do you want your son exposed to potential liability, should you have an accident?
 
Registration requirements

I did a bill of sale and sold him 5% of the plane for $1. No issue for me, as I plan to give him the plane eventually. I did not register it with the FAA and have no idea if I am obigated to do so. I have no idea how partial ownership works. I presume it will be enough for this circumstance, as I don't feel the FAA is out to violate me on this issue. If it wasn't a family member, I suspect there may be more scrutiny as it looks like I am targetting a loophole. But selling a share to a family member shouldn't raise any eyebrows.

Larry

I may be wrong, but If I understand it correctly, you DO need to re-register the A/C with the FAA if you take this approach. Check your registration. If it says "single owner", it needs to be changed to "co-owned" or similar verbiage. Failing to disclose that is technically a federal offense--the same law that sent Martha Stewart to prison a few years ago (of course we wouldn't be sent to "Club Fed" to serve our sentences). It's been a while, but I believe the specific law is shown on the website at the bottom of the registration application.

If you registered your plane in an LLC however, you could then change members without needing to involve the FAA.
 
LODA

I think we have a little thread drift going here. Anyhow, I got both my LODA's (owner and CFI) from the Orlando FSDO after only 5 days of wait, probably the fastest thing I ever got from the FAA.

Dan
 

Getting closer, although neither of these opinions *directly* lays out the reasoning and applicable situations regarding logging flight time.

I didn't see any answer to my question about a *safety pilot* "accumulating flight time" from anyone, either. If "accumulating flight time" is compensation, then logically, a safety pilot for instrument practice is getting compensation and therefore has to have a commercial rating. Right?
 
Unbelievable service

Are people who are getting quick turn around approvals using the email address the FAA set up for this purpose or emailing their local FSDOs directly?

I used the one the FAA set up for this. Yesterday. GOT MY FINISHED LODA TODAY!

Actually I received the form to fill out and email back for signature, but literally before I could finish filling it out, my email alarmed and a filled out, finished AND SIGNED LODA arrived! This means the FSDO looked up my info, filled it all out and issued it directly!

Never seen anything like this before. I have a call into the (San Antonio) FSDO manager to thank him.
 
Just checkin' in. I got my LODA from the San Antonio FSDO as well.

Amazing.
 
Yes, I got that. So there really isn’t a template, you just include that info in the email…thanks!

There is a template.. If you don't fill out the template, then the FAA FSDO will have to fill it out for you. If you do fill it out, then you might save someone a minute or two of work. After you fill out the template, you still need to send it via email to the same email address everyone else is sending their info to.

The "template" asks for the same information that was posted in the EAA article that you were directed to include in an email... When you receive your LODA, you will see that the FSDO filled it out for you, if you didn't bother to fill it out...

Either way, just do one of the other and I'm sure it will be okay.. The link to the template as posted above, is also posted below..

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/vintage_experimental/examiners/media/LODA_Template.pdf
 
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Just to add one more data point to this thread, I was denied my LODAs today. I submitted with the information asking for a LODA to take transition training in someone else's airplane and was told they should already have a LODA under the old rules and that I don't need one.

I also applied for a LODA for my still under construction airplane and was told to apply after I got my airworthiness cert. Waiting to hear back if they will issue a LODA in conjunction with an airworthiness cert so phase 1 isn't delayed if you're paying someone to ride right seat with the additional pilot program.
 
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