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Considering building, but worried about a lack of electrical and engine knowledge...

PilotFuse

Member
Almost a decade ago, I was pretty active here on the forum. I built out a workshop in my garage, started acquiring tools, and then life got in the way. Here I am, a decade later, and I've found my way back into aviation. It didn't take long for my RV admiration to kick in. One child is about to become three, but I manage to have some free time, and some free cash.

I've done plenty of reading on what it takes to build, and I've seen many mentions of "anyone can do it." While I appreciate that, and I suspect it's true on the airframe part of the build, I also find myself reading the engine/panel parts of other builders' logs, and not understanding much.

To that end, before I get started and find myself in a situation where I can't finish a project 2, 3, or 5 years from now, I'm hoping for some honest opinions on what it takes to be successful, beyond the airframe skills. I see lots of engineers, auto mechanics, and miscellaneous technical people building. What's it like for a computer/tech/marketing guy who can change a tire, build a picnic table, and put together some stuff from Ikea, but has virtually no skills in the engine/electrical arena?
 
In the beginning, none of us knew anything. Building is a commitment to education as much as recreation.

I've learned a lot, without formal training, and believe me, I have a lot of fun with my RV friends.
 
Welcome

Welcome Mike.
Like Dan said, you will learn.
Don't set limits on yourself. What would you tell your children if asked the same?
 
I'm new to aviation. As far as fabrication, somethings I know, somethings I will learn, and other things I will get help. Reach out to local EAA chapter on areas where you're weak - I'm sure you will find many volunteers to show you the ropes.
 
I'm an engineer and I thought my RV-3B would be easy for me. It's not; there are many new skills to learn; building isn't all that much about engineering, that's been done for us. All of us have to learn these building skills - and the skills, individually, are all learnable.

That's part of the fun of the thing.

Take it slow, enjoy the new-to-you technologies, and you'll have a nice plane.

Dave
 
I had the same fears as you when I started, most of the building talk/discussions were way above my head/experience level. My RV is less than 1 hour from hitting 200 hours in the air, and lots of talk/posts/discussion are (as before) still above my head. There has been a whole lot of fun and learning in between.

Once I started the tail-kit, pretty soon I found out I fit right in with the conversations about the trim tab and building a straight trailing edge. Then I learned all about Pro-seal during wing assembly followed by canopy and cowling fitting etc.

The engine/avionics/wiring were a challenging step, the hardest part was making a choice from all the different selections. I was amazed at the generosity of the building mentors, and with the knowledge they possessed.

In the end it's just like any other thing in life, if you spend several years having fun pursuing a passion you're very likely to be successful and learn a lot in the meantime.
 
By the time you get through the airframe you'll have heaps of oppertunity to learn what you need for the engine/electrical. Once you get through the airframe, you'll feel like you can take on anything. Keep it simple, stick to the plans, and where the plans suck, just do as Larry and Dan say and everything will be peachy.
Tom.
 
Building Knowledge

Nobody starts out knowing everything. I'm a mechanical engineer and owned a C-150 for 13 years before I started building my RV-9A. During that time I "helped" with all the annuals and repairs, took an aircraft mechanics correspondence course...and still didn't know everything.

I wanted to learn the technology of light aircraft and I wanted to learn the craft of building them. Boy did I ever. Or should I say, I'm still learning, and expect to do so even after the RV-9A is an airplane.

You don't have to go "all in" at the start. I bought some tools and then bought the empennage kit and said "I'll try this and if I don't like it/can't do it, then I'm only out a grand (or one airplane financial unit, sounds smaller) or so". I'm currently working on the canopy, so I've built the empennage, wings, tanks and fuselage.

What I've found is it is not so much "can I do it" as striking a balance between "time" and "money". Never enough of both at the same time, I think that's called life.
 
A guy who's built several of these things had an answer for me when I was trying to decide if it was a good idea for me to take on a RV-8 project for much the same reason as you.

His words: "Just. Do. It."

Then he pointed out himself and a half dozen or more other guys close enough in proximity by who had already figured it out, and all of whom are willing to help. We're all still learning. That's the best part.

Go for it. :) And that's coming from a computer, tech, IT security guy who works a desk for a living and used to think Ikea cam locks were awesome. ;)

Which model are you looking at?
 
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Welcome Mike.
Like Dan said, you will learn.
Don't set limits on yourself. What would you tell your children if asked the same?

It's funny you should ask this. One of my primary reasons for building is to share the experience with my kids. I don't care if it takes 10 years to finish.
 
It's funny you should ask this. One of my primary reasons for building is to share the experience with my kids. I don't care if it takes 10 years to finish.

Heck, that's the best reason in the world. If you get to spend quality time with the kids, finishing would really just be a bonus. Icing on the cake. Then you can take them flying in it. :D

Maybe they'll be the ones to figure out the engine and electronics for ya. ;)
 
Wow! will the real home-builder please stand up!

you guys just hit the rivet on the head!

my Dad started building wing ribs for his Jodel on the kitchen table before I was born.
It flew when I was 9!
after that were a few engine overhauls, paint jobs, windshields, gear mods....there was always the smell of airplanes in the basement, or his shop...and I knew where to find him any time of day, or evening!
Then he started another build, and I learned SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much about him, and tools, and patience, and quality, and ....well, you get the idea.
and who do you think had the BEST Dad in the whole neighbourhood!?
...no contest!
no, you're not just building a plane, you are building a family, it's values, and the community that comes with it.
 
You can do it, if you want it. Don't worry about any lack of knowledge. You can find the answers to just about any question just by searching these forums. Ask away and you will be surprised by the generous responses by the collective mind here. Heck, I've got BSEE/Comp Sci & MSCompEng degrees and I think I learned more practical electronics understanding by building my RV-9A than I did in college.

If you don't start, you won't finish.
 
To get started on the electrical stuff I suggest you read of this book:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/pub/pub.html

I read it cover to cover, it is an easy read for a novice and very educational.

For engine stuff I believe Lycoming has a program where you attend and learn.

You can do it for sure. You will need some patience, the willingness to do things over when they go wrong, and you will need some patience. If you have a hot temper that gets the best of you and you start throwing things well........it will become a little more expensive and you will learn patience.
 
Do it!

I was 20 years old when I dug into my Uncle's partly finished (wings and tail) -6 project, that he started when I was about 5. I had a years worth of commercial flying experience at the time, and helped out on a few inspections on the c180 floater I was flying back then. I knew little to nothing about how airplanes went together when I started, but 7 years later I'm close to having a flying airplane. I made my share of dumb mistakes, but between forums, books, and harrassing AME's, I know I will have a solid and well built machine.

I also am really enjoying learning from my dad with this project. Although he isn't into planes like me, he has been restoring motorcycles his whole life and his incredible knowledge of machine tools, metal work, engines, drawings, autoCAD, etc, has taught me so much and helped me along the way.

My grandfather always said "If someone else can do it, then so can I". I was raised to never sell myself short, and thats the advice I give to you! If you want to build an RV, why let anything stop you?

Alex
 
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Lots of great advice here...I too had the exact same worries as you (and still do at times!). Sometimes it stresses me out when I start thinking about how I will learn it all. Then I just tell myself to focus on one task at a time. It will come later. Patience and determination. You can do this!
 
The RV-12 has a plug and play electrical system. It is similar to building or repairing a computer. Just plug in the cables. The step by step instructions make building the airframe and installing the engine relatively easy.
Since your family will be growing along with the aircraft project, you might consider a 4 place like the RV-10.
 
Did you wake up one day, knowing how to build that picnic table? Or did you have to read a little, maybe study some drawings? You can learn anything. The fact that you are employed for using a set of skills that you learned is proof of that. The information is out there, whether on this forum, youtube, EAA workshops, you name it.

BTW, I'm also a "computer guy" so I wasn't exactly "at home" in a workshop. I'm having to learn all this stuff for the first time while I build my -9A. I know nothing about engines right now but I know I'll be able to find the information to learn.

Cheers! :)
 
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The RV-12 has a plug and play electrical system. It is similar to building or repairing a computer. Just plug in the cables. The step by step instructions make building the airframe and installing the engine relatively easy.
Since your family will be growing along with the aircraft project, you might consider a 4 place like the RV-10.

You know, I've been considering the RV-10, but it comes down to this: With child #3 on the way, we've already outgrown that from a "how many seats?" perspective. It'd be nice to be able more than one kid at a time (the others are 10 and 4 currently), but it's tough to justify building something that'll still be one seat short.
 
Well I know a little about engines but not much about aircrsft engines. Actually kinda funny considering that was my father's business but you know kids. That's another story I guess. I've been reading all of the posts on engines. Cooling problems, control cable routing, oil cooler sizes, you name it. By the time I'm ready to buy an engine I'll know enough to work through it. I'll get some help or ask question here to get help. I'll figure it out and in time be comfortable with it.

This is a big undertaking. Just make sure you are ready for the level of effort required.
 
You are off to the races

Now you should realize that asking if you should build an RV on this forum is like asking an alcoholic if we should have another drink. :D
Only you can answer the question. Do you want to learn about avionics and engines? If so, then you can do it. Remember, you do not know the engineering aspect of how it was designed, only how to interface with it and dollars can overcome everything. The so many of the avionics systems are plug and play with designs from vendors that have everything figured out for you. Engines are simple: Air-Fuel-Compression-Spark and you are off to the races.
 
You don't have to learn everything in a week. You have several years. The bEngelis books have tons of info and this site and the various builder sites have more information than exists for any other type of homebuilt. These have been built by dentists, cops, firemen, farmers, housewives, students, test pilots..... I bet the test pilots struggled with riveting just as much as the housewives. You take it one day at a time, find some people near you who are or were builders, you learn, you meet people and make new friends, it's a journey in many ways. By the end you will know a lot and you will know the airplane in a way that you never did with any school's Cessna, which is a really great feeling.

It isn't about what you know, you can start at 0. It is all about perseverance and determination and having the discipline to make sure you do it right or do it over. And it is about staying motivated and not letting setbacks get the better of you. All the worthwhile things in life are hard. The harder they are, the sweeter they are when you reach the goal.

I find it to be a lot like getting a university degree. Tons of work and $$, some degree of frustration, you have to overcome a lot of self doubt and at the end you have learned a lot and you are to some degree a different person, your circle of friends is wider and your view of the world is different. And you own an awesome airplane and a ***load of tools! :D
 
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If you start now, your ten y.o. will be eleven by the time you pick up a rivet gun. Finishing high school about the same time as the airplane. If you didn't spend the college money on avionics, that ten year old is gone and you're down to four.
 
I'm pretty sure *I* am the poster child for "If I can do it, anybody can" and if you search over years of questions here on VAF and my blog and wherever else I've vomited forth (The Cowling Chronicles is a good example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-84oX4tkVvw), you'll find I ain't lying.

Lots of smarter people than me have given you advice already so you don't really need any more but just read this if you get a chance...

http://stirringsfromtheemptynest.blogspot.com/2006/07/right-here-provenzani.html

... which I post only to illustrate this point: If you think you're fully capable of doing something, how do you expect to be in awe of what you actually end up doing?

Go forth. Build. Be awesome. Be awed.
 
Heck, I built and I even didn't know VAF existed, which is a great source of info and help. Like others said, building is more of a commitment issue than [lack of] knowledge.
 
Just to say it was considered..

I'm not saying this would be the case, but I would say at least it was something you may want to considered.

If you decide to go this, you will quite literally spend thousands of hours working on the plane and equally as many thinking about it and researching it. This is a lot of time that you could be spending with your kids doing things they like.

It's possible they may not enjoy painstaking hours making slow progress. They may even end up resenting all the time you spend on the plane.

Not saying this would be the case, and it was not mine, but it is something to consider.
 
The first question

Why do you want to build? If it is to get an RV then go buy one. If it is because you like a challenge and like to learn then go build one. There is nothing so difficult to learn that the average person can't do it.

Be honest about your motivation.

Gary Specketer
 
building

Building your own aircraft is the single biggest project you'll ever undertake and without a doubt it will be a part of your life you'll be most proud of. Some here have done it more than once!!! It is fun and very educational.

There will be times you'll feel like you bit off more than you can chew. I felt it twice, first when the kit arrived, (I ordered the entire kit at once, fuse, wings, tail). I had it delivered to my home and for several days felt like I was completely overwhelmed. After organizing, I began to feel better. The second time I felt overwhelmed.... I had completed the panel and with it on the bench, all the what looked like 10,000 wires laying loose scared me. I had to remember to not look at everything at once. Picking out just one wire, from the plans/drawings/schematics I learned what it was for and in a very short time things began to make sense again!

Of course you'll use this forum more than you can imagine... a great deal for 25 bucks! I still send in my donation and my planes been flying 3 1/2 years. I do it for guys like you!

In a nut shell, you know you better than anyone. Don't doubt you can do it because YOU CAN! Like some others have said, the really serious question that must be answered is this, "Do I have the commitment to see it thru?"

Only other thing I'll add is this.... don't rule out the QuickBuild kits. More money up front but unless you just love deburring, drilling and riveting, so much worth it as it saves many MANY hours.
 
my learning curve

I had no idea what I was starting, I quit , I want to sell, I buy more parts, I stop for a week or two, I think about it all the time....then I go into the garage and make some progress. the real learning is in the peripheral tasks and, know when to stop after a mistake has occurred and you find a rhythm of when to go into the garage and work and get in the zone and build and slowly you build up stamina to stay in the zone and mistakes become less and less and when you look over it all you realize you are free to move about in the zone without worry. and read then re read then re re read the plans until you do the task in your head then go make a plane. go for it go for it go for it.
 
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I'm not saying this would be the case, but I would say at least it was something you may want to considered.

If you decide to go this, you will quite literally spend thousands of hours working on the plane and equally as many thinking about it and researching it. This is a lot of time that you could be spending with your kids doing things they like.

It's possible they may not enjoy painstaking hours making slow progress. They may even end up resenting all the time you spend on the plane.

Not saying this would be the case, and it was not mine, but it is something to consider.

This is also on my mind. I've realized that I'm OK with it taking a very, very long time if no one shares the interest. I also tend to have time during the day (when I'm not on the road for work) while my wife and kids are at work/school.
 
Why do you want to build? If it is to get an RV then go buy one. If it is because you like a challenge and like to learn then go build one. There is nothing so difficult to learn that the average person can't do it.

Be honest about your motivation.

Gary Specketer

It's definitely about the experience/challenge, primarily. The reality is that there are plenty of certified, readily available used planes I could find that are likely a better fit for my current mission. I want to build something with my own two hands, and be a part of this awesome community. The airplane itself will be a better fit for me years down the line that it would be right now.
 
You say you don't know much about engines and avionics and that causes you to hesitate.

What I suggest is that you buy one and fly it.

I can guarantee you (from personal experience) that you will start to pick up the knowledge along the way. Mainly due to maintenance, and problems you may have and possibly the desire to upgrade the machine. In fact one thing you can do is buy a machine with old instruments and do an upgrade. It will be a cheaper machine and much of the upgrade can be done outside of the plane.

I had to tighten a lose flare fitting on one fuel tank air vent line. I learned A LOT about the fuel level transducer, flared fittings, and Proseal.

You will learn what an NPT thread is, what thread sealant to use and how tight to make it. You will learn about flared fittings and tubing and how to make them. When to use flexible hoses and when to use aluminum tubing.

You will learn all about the myriad of fittings out there and become intimate friends with parts vendors.


I bought an excellent RV-8. Well built and maintained. Yet I have a list of upgrades. Here's three examples:

1) The stick is way too short for me so I need to install a new one, I also want to move the elevator trim switch from the instrument panel to the Infinity Grip I want to install.

This will get you into wiring

- DB connector for the Infinity grip back-fitted to what is already there
- moving the wires from the panel rocker switch to the coolie hat of the Grip
- determining which wires do what on the present stick do what and
how to connect them to the grip


cutting and installing tubing
- bought a new stick and it has to be sized so that there' s ample
room between the top of the Grip and the bottom edge of the
instrument panel)
- what bolts washers and nuts to use on a component as
important as the stick. You will learn the designations for these
items (which number is for "grip"? what is "grip" etc)


2) Installation of an Odyssey 925 battery

- The battery won't fit in the battery tray as the tray is presently configured
I got a new tray and see that I need to buy the right size nutplates
(what are those?) and rivets (get the correct size) for the nutplates

- I need to fashion new right angles which keep the battery from
sliding side to side as the 925 is not as wide as the present tray expects.

This will get you into clecos, cleco pliers and rudimentary riveting.

- I may have to fashion a longer cable for the battery ground.

So this little project taught me about rivet edge distance, rivet sizing, how to drive a rivet, drilling holes for rivets, etc. All necessary for building a plane.




3) Install an airspeed indicator whose units are knots rather than MPH

- Again NPT fittings as that's what the ASI requires. What one do you get for plastic tubing (AN840-4D for my airplane).


So there's three examples of fairly small upgrade projects all of which teaches you some of the rudimentary skills necessary for building an airplane.

Basically you will find that "Nothing is Ever Simple (NES)" when you are starting out and you will learn a lot with each task you perform.


Just a thought.
 
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For a comparitively small amount of money you can but a tail kit and only the required minimal set of tools and give it a try. After that you'll at least have a better idea of what's involved with actual building. If you decide it doesn't fit either you or the kids stop at that point. Sell your stuff and move on. Sure you'll lose a little money but then you'll know that it wasn't the right thing for you. No biggie.
 
All good information here. I learned the many skills required to build an RV while building. My help came from VAF, other internet sources and mentors. Ok to make a mistake if you can "un-do" it. The Vans guys and gals in the parts order store are great to work with. Sure - ask me how I know. Build on. J
 
I enlarged this, put it in a plastic sleeve and tacked it up in my shop for most of my build. It came from here on VAF, I think from someone's signature. Many here will likely recognize it.

"IT IS NEVER SKILL OR CRAFTMANSHIP THAT COMPLETES AIRPLANES, IT'S THE WILL TO DO SO."

Thank you to the originator.
 
Like becoming a parent none of us had experience. I plan on leaning on fellow rvrs and VAF a lot. Best of luck in both areas.
 
so i am the wet blanket. this forum is composed of people who have ''drank the kool aid''. myself included. but you should be aware that there is more than one person who bought a kit and then never finished. i am sure you would get another take on your question if there was a forum of builders who never finished. take all the parts of your life into consideration. make a wise choice. these are big bucks.
 
so i am the wet blanket. this forum is composed of people who have ''drank the kool aid''. myself included. but you should be aware that there is more than one person who bought a kit and then never finished. i am sure you would get another take on your question if there was a forum of builders who never finished. take all the parts of your life into consideration. make a wise choice. these are big bucks.

You're not the only wet blanket....I'm suggesting he buy one to fly and the maintenance and upgrades will teach him lots about engines and avionics.
 
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