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Scuff & paint on top of paint from 94'?

Fly2KiteSurf

Active Member
Hello all.....New guy here,

Recently purchased an RV-3 (N978TM)

http://www.romeolima.com/RV3hq/Registry/TomMcintyreRegistryEntry.html

I have removed the wings and tail feathers, and relocated everything to my two car garage. And while engine is being overhauled I would like to repaint. The paint is the original from 1994, never been repainted. Dupont Vari-Prime and Dupont Centurion. I am not set-up to paint, so I'm considering letting a reputable local auto body shop do a scuff & paint while it's all disassembled.

Will a single stage paint stick?

What should I look out for?

Appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks.
 
Sean, I see its your first post. Welcome aboard the good ship VAF. Someone with painting expertise will be along to help you soon.
 
I have to agree with Brian here. You probably don't know how thick the current paint is. And besides, if you have an auto body shop do the repaint, it may add considerable weight. Auto painters are not used to thinking "light".

Painting over will, at least, double the paint weight, and probably more.
 
Strip it

Sean, when I painted my RV-6, it added 42 lbs. That includes filler on the fiberglass, hi build primer, two coats of Sikkens color, two coats of clear. The paint looks awesome, but 17 lbs of that was on the tail, which made me change the prop to a heavier one to get my cg back where I had decent baggage carrying capability. It kind of shocked me how much the paint weighed. The scales I used may have weighed heavier than the scales that weighed it before I bought it, but nevertheless paint can add a surprising amount of weight. You have 216 lbs of fuel with those extended tanks alone, I would for sure strip it. I just purchased a flying RV-3A with an O320 and wing tanks and am working hard/spending thousands of dollars to make it lighter. Just my two cents, welcome to VAF and the RV-3 :)
 
You scuff cars - you strip airplanes.

If you do decide to go with the considerable extra weight of a scuff and paint, at least strip the control surfaces - that's the LAST place you need more weight behind the hingeline!
 
Dupont Vari-Prime and Dupont Centurion.

Centari maybe?
Anyway, you want to strip it before repaint. (or better yet, have someone ELSE strip it!).
If you decide to strip it, know that it is messy and not exactly fun. But, if I can do it, so can you. Let us know if you need info on doing it yourself. BTW, the Variprime will come off with MEK.
 
What is the reason for repainting?

Is it gloss or color choice? If it is color choice, yellow is really hard to cover and you would be better off stripping and ignoring the following paragraphs. If it is a gloss issue, then I am offering a different perspective than some of the other posters.

Years ago I purchased a Cherokee 180 with a basecoat/clearcoat paint job. The clearcoat on horizontal surfaces exposed to UV was just about gone. I scuffed those surfaces, (including around the protruding rivets with Ditzler sanding paste and a toothbrush) and recoated with PPG clear polyurethane. Any place I sanded through to bare metal was touched up using an airbrush.

I painted the aircraft outside on a low humidity summer morning starting during civil twilight. I am not a professional painter, but through self teaching and practice on my super late model stock car and other objects that didn't matter, became proficient enough. There are lots of great painting tips on this website, particularly from DanH. He claims to be an amateur, but his paint job is so good you couldn't afford to hire anyone to do it that well. Also, remember that by scuffing, you are relying on mechanical and not chemical adhesion. It takes a lot of elbow grease (or perhaps a Cyclo dual wheel buffer) and a careful eye to make sure that every square inch is actually scuffed. My paint restoration project cost $750 for materials and many hours of labor, which I was willing to trade because I didn't have $8K to pay an aircraft paint shop.

FWIW, during cross-country trips, other aircraft owners would compliment me on the paint job. I weighed the aircraft on certified scales afterward and the plane was lighter than before. I believe there was no detectable weight change from the paint, but I had changed out a "coffee-grinder" radio for a KLX-135A, replaced the intercom, and removed an ADF.

If you are not going to paint the plane yourself, I would use someone who has a paint thickness gauge, knows how to use it, and knows how to paint to a particular mil thickness.

I have done calculations based on appropriate paint thickness and believe a complete paint job on an RV-6(A) should weigh 20 - 25 Lbs. You would be less with a scuff because you would not be priming and sanding some paint off.

Larry Tompkins
544WB -6A
W52 Battle Ground, WA
 
No one else mentioned it, but I see that you are in a salt air environment. You want a painter that really knows how to protect aluminum. Is your 20 year old paint showing any signs of corrosion underneath? If so there is only one answer, strip and start from scratch.
 
I've recently done some cowl upgrades/maintenance on an RV and I have to say the original paint from the 1992 era scheme was ridiculously thick. In order to make repairs I had to remove a considerable amount of paint and since it was a fiberglass part I had to sand the paint off. Just a note, keep any sort of stripping chemical off of the fiberglass parts. While on metal you use stripper, on fiberglass we must sand those parts down to primer and re prep for paint (Wing tips, fairings, cowl, etc)

Anyhow, the paint thickness made me look over the rest of the near vintage type of paint job on the metal parts of the aircraft and I estimate that while it is shiny and looks nice from 10 feet back, it is an overly thick paint job especially on the color overlays. They seem entirely painted over a thick base coat and there is a lot of overly thick alternate color painted areas. If properly stripped and re painted, it might yield at least some significant amount of weight savings waiting for the scales.

Not sure about your original paint but any "re-paint" might as well give you a weight savings rather than a weight gain.
 
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Welcome to VAF!

Andy,
welcome.gif
to the good ship VAF.

Sorry I missed your first post:eek:........
 
I've recently done some cowl upgrades/maintenance on an RV and I have to say the original paint from the 1992 era scheme was ridiculously thick. In order to make repairs I had to remove a considerable amount of paint and since it was a fiberglass part I had to sand the paint off. Just a note, keep any sort of stripping chemical off of the fiberglass parts. While on metal you use stripper, on fiberglass we must sand those parts down to primer and re prep for paint (Wing tips, fairings, cowl, etc)

Anyhow, the paint thickness made me look over the rest of the near vintage type of paint job on the metal parts of the aircraft and I estimate that while it is shiny and looks nice from 10 feet back, it is an overly thick paint job especially on the color overlays. They seem entirely painted over a thick base coat and there is a lot of overly thick alternate color painted areas. If properly stripped and re painted, it might yield at least some significant amount of weight savings waiting for the scales.

Not sure about your original paint but any "re-paint" might as well give you a weight savings rather than a weight gain.

You seem to be implying that the time frame has something to do with paint thickness. Not quite sure I understand that reasoning.
My RV-6 was painted in 1993 and the full paint added less than 20 lbs. total.
It was painted with JetGlo and still looks great today.
 
Thanks for all the input. I?m changing direction?..

The reason for wanting to repaint is not corrosion or color scheme change, but rather a combination of gloss issues (fading) and mylar gap-seals that were held in place with double sided tape that when removed pulled off the color, but not the primer. There is some chipping from hangar rash too.

The plane spent its entire life in California & Arizona until 2 ½ years ago when a previous owner moved it to south Florida and left it outside. Then apparently life got in the way and the plane sat without ever being started for approximately 2 years. Ouch! I knew when I took-on this project that there was a very good chance the engine was toast; and it was. Pulled all four cylinders and found pitted cylinders and corrosion on the camshaft from condensation. Surprisingly, airframe corrosion is minimal.

So, after listening to you all, I’m going to first explore touch-up with an airbrush and then buffing. If that doesn’t give me what I’m looking for, I will strip & paint.

I talked to a fellow today that has a business traveling all over south Florida doing aircraft paint restoration for the last 20 years. He came highly recommended from a Miami area sailplane operation that primarily operates outside. Looking forward to his opinion as well. He's coming out to take a look on Thursday.

I’ll keep you updated! :)
 
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You seem to be implying that the time frame has something to do with paint thickness. Not quite sure I understand that reasoning.
My RV-6 was painted in 1993 and the full paint added less than 20 lbs. total.
It was painted with JetGlo and still looks great today.

No, that's not what I'm implying. As I'm sure we can all, appreciate, sometimes the written word in an open communication forum can be read into in as many ways as there are readers. The reason I mentioned the time frame is because it happens to be one factor in why the cowl needed work. Over time, there were some wear and tear items associated, requiring some close attention and repair. for that reason, it led to the discovery of some very thick coats of paint that I would not have suspected otherwise. I'm glad I did not have to make repairs to a brand new cowl. ;)
 
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