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New Builder Hints

never put 3000 AN3.5 & AN4 rivets in the same cheap plastic storage bin drawer with removable divider because you WILL eventually drop the drawer or pull the divider at the LEAST convenient moment.

corollary #1: if your eyes aren't good now, they sure as #&_$ won't be good after sorting 3000 rivets of nearly the same size.

corollary #2: a pharmacist's tablet dispenser is excellent for sorting rivets

corollary #3: you can never have too many cheap plastic storage bins.

mr. murphy's universal "builders/restoration/motorsports hobby" law:
--when you have the time, you won't have the money.
--when you have the money, you won't have the time.

fail to plan, plan to fail

the actual number of years to complete your first aircraft will be equal to "10" divided by your most optimistic estimate.
 
too clever by half

if you plan on impressing your friends by rolling out the fuse on the gear with the tail PERMANENTLY mounted, make sure not to forget to add the width of the STINKIN' fiberglass tips when measuring for the width of the shop door BEFORE you build the friggin' workshop and AFTER you glassed the tips onto the HS

...ESPECIALLY if you build houses for a living....
 
Never....

...wear your VAF hat to the airport if there is any chance you are going to do maintenance...like an oil change...white hat, old oil...it's not pretty... :mad:

Paul
 
What to wear.

If you have any clothes that you would prefer not to get any blood on, then do not wear them out in the "airplane factory."

If you have a shirt that your wife gave you that you absolutely hate to wear, then wear it when you Pro-Seal your tanks. This works with pants, girly handkerchiefs, or stupid hats, also.

You might want to remove all items of clothing before starting to Pro-Seal your tanks. You might want to close the "factory" entrance when you do this.

Tracy (wearing rags in the "factory").
 
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riveting technique

don't try to shoot rivets with the bucking bar in the vise and the work in your hand -- especially if you haven't edge finished the work well -- results are similar to drilling your finger, except the fissure created is less regular and takes longer to heal.
 
Always stick your finger in a small airplane propellor instead of a big one!

WOUND%20008.jpg
 
hard to find small parts

Here's a tip for builder's lacking those cool parts holders for nuts, washers and various small widgets.

Scatter a small handful of whatever small part you're installing on the ground, about where they would be if you dropped them. You'll spend less time looking for the one you dropped, if a replacement can easily be picked up.
 
Make a backup of your build log and photos onto another pc or burn to disk before you pc's hard disk crashes :mad:
 
2 or 3 microstop countersinks

Buy 2 microstop countersinks and leave one permanently set for -3 and one permanently set for -4. You'll save a BUNCH OF TIME. Buy a third and use that for all the odd jobs like -5 rivets, #6 and #8 screws, #12 or 19 drills.

Not only will you save lots of time but, you will have consistently perfect sinks on your -3 and -4 rivets which are the majority of uses.

Check out a pro wood workers shop: they have a router for each bit they use. The time to change bits and set up the depth is a killer and not worth the extra expense.

Jekyll
 
Painting rules
1. No matter what you say, what you do, or how closely you guard your work, your kids will find a way to touch your freshly painted part "just to see if it's wet."
2. Just as soon as you get everything prepped, mix up a batch of paint, and make the first pass with the spraygun, either one of your children or your wife will need your help "right now".
3. Your paint job will never look quite as good as it does when you first pull the tape and masking paper off after spraying the last color, enjoy it.
 
Ironflight said:
You can't undrill a hole...unless you're working in fiberglass!!

then....

Dry Micro is your BEST friend! :D

Paul

Paul,
That isn't ALWAYS true. All the 1/16" and thicker angle on our RV kits is made from 6061-T6. This is a weldable alloy (unlike 2024-T3) I wanted to kill myself when I countersunk the WRONG side of a line of holes on one of my sub longerons a few years ago. Then I remembered that 6061 could be welded. I work in a warehouse bay (no room in the condo). My landlord is a top notch machinist and welder. He fixed my screw up in 2 minutes. A few minutes more with the belt sander and ScotchBrite disc, and all was well again. Talk about dodging a bullet! :eek:
Charlie Kuss
 
Pick up your air hose

1. Always pick up your air hose when not being used. Otherwise, you might get sick of tripping over it and grab it and flick it out of the way. Only you might forget that it had a dirty great big brass air connector on the end of it, and it flicked a lot farther than you could ever believe... and smack your missus (who was kindly helping you de-burr) right across her eye brow.
2. Never, never, never yell at your missus to stop bleeding all over your shiny new airplane.
3. Pay much closer attention to the quality of the dog food you feed your mut. You might have to share it with him.

Phil North
RV-7 Wings
ZK-REB reserved
Te Awamutu, New Zealand
 
philn said:
smack your missus (who was kindly helping you de-burr) right across her eye brow.

Whew - close one!
I thought you were going to say it hit and dented one of your wing or fuselage skins!! :D

Thomas
 
1. Never assume you know the next step in the construction sequence.

2. If you disregard step 1, pay close attention to the difficulty of what you are attempting. If it doesn't seem right, or it's way more difficult than it should be, stop. And if you can stop before you drill or cut anything, do so. Then check the plans, the instructions, correlate the instructions to the plans, then check the work.

3. Keep in mind at all times that cutting tools and drills have no 'undo' button.
 
Blood

philn said:
2. Never, never, never yell at your missus to stop bleeding all over your shiny new airplane.

Phil North
RV-7 Wings
ZK-REB reserved
Te Awamutu, New Zealand

No, yelling is not needed... this is one of the advantages of metal planes... the blood cleans off easily with solvents.

Now if you were building a wooden plane.... then the rule is "don't bleed on the work".... :D

Gil in Tucson - who built a 42 ft span wooden sailplane... :)
 
Quiet

philn said:
1. Always pick up your air hose when not being used. Otherwise, you might get sick of tripping over it and grab it and flick it out of the way. Only you might forget that it had a dirty great big brass air connector on the end of it, and it flicked a lot farther than you could ever believe... and smack your missus (who was kindly helping you de-burr) right across her eye brow.
2. Never, never, never yell at your missus to stop bleeding all over your shiny new airplane.
3. Pay much closer attention to the quality of the dog food you feed your mut. You might have to share it with him.
Phil, you kept that quiet! I wondered why I hadn't seen her around the last couple of times I came over :) I've yelled at Jackie a couple of times; I'm trying not to do it 'cos I hate having to beg to get her to come back and finish whatever we were doing at the time! Few more days will see this right wing closed up I reckon...

Cheers,
 
back riveting

When back riveting, don't get so wrapped up in all the process of loading rivets, taping them in place, getting out the back rivet set, setting up the gun, etc that you forget to place the SECOND piece to be riveted onto the taped-in-place-rivets before setting the rivets. I've done this more than once.
 
Follow-up to Brian's Single Piece Riveting Tip

When you do forget to place the second piece - your rivets will be the best ever.
 
dimpling ribs

You can very efficiently dimple ribs by placing your pneumatic squeezer in a vise fixed to your bench. Set up the dimple dies, and, using a foot operated air valve, quickly and efficiently dimple an entire set of leading edge, tank or empennage ribs. Be very sure that in your efficiency, you remember to move your left index finger far enough away that the dimpler does not quickly and efficiently remove a small but suprizingly painful circle of skin.

Michael Wynn
RV 8 (starting the fuselage)
San Ramon, CA 94583
 
make sure c/s cage clears drill chuck

Here is a tip for when you use a microstop countersink cage. If you shove the drive shaft all the way into your drill chuck, then the sliding housing will slide back until it hits the chuck. This will throw off your cage adjustments. If you later reinsert the cage into the chuck, it will now be cutting too deep. LESSON: when you are adjusting your countersink cage, make sure, when your sliding outer cage housing is all the way back, that it clears your drill chuck. If your chuck is stopping the sliding part, rather than it being done by the adjustment ring on the cage, you will get false settings. This has bitten me a couple times.

brian
 
So THAT'S what was happening ...

Thanks for the tip. I've had some aggravating and mysterious consistency "issues" when countersinking. I bet that was my problem. Never thought about that possibility before.

Terry Ruprecht
Mahomet, IL
RV-9A fuse 75% complete
 
NUTPLATES

Use a shortened screw (AN818?) to hold the nutplate to the workpiece instead of a cleco. Rotate the nutplate into position. Then drill a #40 hole through a leg. Install a cleco. Then drill the other #40 hole. Deburr and dimple. The shortened screw centers the nutplate over the hole and holds it securely to the workpiece.

Steve
 
YOGA

Build9A said:
Always put your tools back in their rightful place after each use. I worked a little over 1200 hours on a quickbuild (about average). 200 hrs. can be attributed to "hunting for tools". :mad:


I wanted to say "What does Doug's wife and my toolbox have in common?" and the answer is that they both have yoga mats... but that would be a little rude I think for a thread so here is the explanation. I have a 3 bay 1600lb toolbox from snap-on.. I LOOOVE it... I have a LOT of tools.. and like the man said 200 hrs was looking for tools.. well I dont. I Ghosted all my tools on the mat and cut out the holes so now I have a toolbox with 3D tool cutouts. It make my life sooooooo easy. The reason I did not make it a thread was I did'nt want anybody comparing Doug's wife to my toolbox or vice versa in any way shape or form. I bought a Yoga mat at Wal-mart and I love it because it's blue foam and the surface is easily cleanable of dirt and grease. So Doug if you read this... no offense. I'm not comparing your wife in anyway shape or form to my toolbox... ok leagalease over... anyways... I know instantly if anything is missing... because the mats in the drawer are black and the yoga mat is blue it stands out.. and it's 3d. You'd be surprised how many tools you find when you empty your box of everything and inventory and clean it. All my customers get a guided tour of the box and they are impressed... also they know no tools are rolling around in the airplane because an inventory is conducted before and after the job.
You would be surprised what a yoga mat and an afternoon can do for your life.. take that however you wish... :D
 
Never let your tool air hose hang in front of your shop heater while in operation....
The heater WILL win........sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss :D
If the heater is not on...they WILL co-exist

Jim
2nd air hose and learning fast
7A elevators and wings on the way
 
Unforseen hazards

A fellow builder told me to place my rivets in medicine bottles and drill a hole in the cap so you can dispense them like salt from a salt shaker. If you knock them over accidently you'll only have to pick up a few instead of a whole bin full. Works great!

Of course we didn't forsee our "attention starved Bassett hound" checking out the project in the garage. She playfully grabbed a bottle sideways in her mouth and ran out in the backyard through the open door shaking rivets out with every bound. She loves to be chased. Guess what? If you drive by this summer and hear little "tinks" while we're mowing the lawn you'll know why!
 
Similiar idea ..

Caveman said:
A fellow builder told me to place my rivets in medicine bottles and drill a hole in the cap so you can dispense them like salt from a salt shaker. If you knock them over accidently you'll only have to pick up a few instead of a whole bin full. Works great!
I did something similar - I used glass pepper/spice shakers (found at Bed, Bath, and Beyond for $2 each; I think I got 10) that have screw on caps. Under the cap they have the plastic cover with holes in it - works great to shake out 1/8" rivets, and an enlargement of the holes with your unibit makes it work for the larger rivets.

The cap is great because you won't ever spill any if you aren't actually using the jar - preventing cats, dogs, and other animals from spilling them all over the place!
:D
 
Proper rivets

The quality of rivet installation is directly proportional to the number of beers you drink while working on your RV, especially in hard to reach places. ;)
 
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rv9aviator said:
The quality of rivet installation is directly proportional to the number of beers you drink while working on your RV, especially in hard to reach places. ;)

I think you mean inversely proportional. :D
 
jsherblon said:
#10 - Mount two 1/2" Scotch Brite wheels side by side in your grinder. You can then deburr edges in the groove between the wheels. You may also get to see some parts of your aircraft actually fly long before final assembly.

Her - "What's that mark on the garage door."
Me - "Hmmm - must be corrosion. I'll just prime it."


I am still a dreamer, and I can just see this happening and when I read this post, i laughed for ten minutes! Can't wait to be in these predictaments!
 
I just took hours off my building time!!
Ok, I came up with this doing wing skin.
1st u cleco every other hole or two. Then you drill to size. Then you put the drill down and I mark every hole with a black sharpie. Before I switch clecos. Then drill the rest and mark them. This did lead to 1 or 2 missed holes that I marked as drilled. You find out when you dimple that **** I missed this one. U drill it and the corresponding hole. No biggie, just plays on your mind, like what else did I forget. So on the wings I got 2" long sharpies and taped one to the drill bit about 3/8" from the tip of the bit. Now when I drill a hole it has a beautiful black circle around it. When you r all done and look at the skin you know u got everyone of the holes!!!!
And the skin full of circles kind of looks neat! No more missed holes!
Saving hours on building and correcting mistakes and best of all peace of mind.
Fred
 
magnets

For installing bearings and for tight areas that require multipe washers (in different locations along the bolt). I've tried a little of everything. I have a telescopic inspection mirror, you know the ones with the swivel head? On the other end is a threaded knob and once removed reveals a magnet (which can be slipped on the tip to pick up out-of-reach nuts and washers. I took this magnet and placed it on the end of the bolt that was being installed. The washers tend to "stick" quite nicely, at least to the point that you can manipulate them into place over the theads of the bolt.
 
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Catching Rolling Tools

Never be tempted to catch that rolling xacto knife as it falls off the bench. On top of that... move your foot too!
 
when done with the paint gun, you clean it, then you assemble it for the next shoot. Make sure you put the adjustment for paint to zero, or the next spray WILL be at max paint flow.
 
Experience - the rude teacher

#1 - listen to your bride....when she throws a little hint that she is being neglected - listen up and don't man up. A little dinner out is much cheaper than roses and a shopping trip. It's also easier to get a second set of hands when you need her to hold something.

#2 - Close the top of the rivet box when you aren't using. You know the thing that looks like a brief case with a bunch of divider boxes inside. Better yet, take out the inside box of the sizes you need and close the big box. I can promise you that sorting blind rivets is MUCH easier and faster than the little hammered guys.

#3 - Flush rivets are worse than rocks on a hard floor when barefoot. Make sure your pockets are empty before you go from the airplane factory into the house. Flush rivets hurt when going for the 4AM pee.

#4 - Learn to estimate time. If it's gonna take and hour, tell your bride 2 hours. You'll look like a hero coming in a 1/2 hour early.
 
Not having a good day!!!

I just started my RV-12 wing kit about 3 days ago and I destroyed my first piece of aluminum! I was suppose to csk about 80 #30 holes to the size of a 1/4 " drilled hole (guide) which will be riveted to the leading edge of the wing and the wing skin is to be dimpled to fit the countersink. I have about 4-5 holes csk way to much ...5/16 and some 5/16+ as a guide hole. The second piece I did came out pretty good. Guess I'll have to replace the first piece I ruined!

I now have to rivet 16-AN470AD4-4 rivets ... my first squeezed rivet ever. I have no extra rivet to practice on. I set the piece to be riveted in a vice and put two pieces in the rivet squeezer. One piece is curved like the machined end of the rivet and the other is with a flat piece. I just squeeze slowly ... Correct ... ??? don't make it to flat right? the new crushed piece on the bottom I squeeze will be as thick as 1/2 the dia of the rivet shank. Right ...
 
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Comfortable working under the plane

I had the good fortune (right) of having to pull my fuel tank due to a leak (done by vans in my quick build kit!). With the support of this group, it wasn't so bad. But I learned that to lay on your back was awakward. Discovered the Comfort of a big Bean Bag Chair. Now I have one handy whenever I have to do something on the floor. Better than a floor creeper, you can prop yourself up and work! Not sure if someone else posted this, sorry if this is a repeat!
 
Don't take your freshly completed mid fuselage section and set it upright on your worktable with four inches of clearance below your overhead shop door, when the freaking J-bar that connects the door to the opener traveler has an excess section that protrudes six inches below the door level.

Good tip: Get a date stamp from an office supply store and stamp date each step in the plans.
 
When removing the hinge pin from the flap on your workbench, make certain there in sufficient clearance to the shop fan behind you - will make you jump out of your skin when the pin hits the fan.
 
Never be tempted to catch that rolling xacto knife as it falls off the bench. On top of that... move your foot too!
Lots of things you don't want to "catch". I once dropped a running Dremel into the trash can I was working over. Reach for the plug, not the tool!
Another thing to NOT catch is a hot soldering iron.
 
Probably doesn't apply

to the pre-punched kits folk. Found out the hard way to pay more attention and read the CORRECT dimensions on the plans. Carefully layed out, drilled and deburred all the rivet holes in the top inner skins of my slow-build RV6. Turns out the distance between the main and rear spars is slightly different between top and bottom skins (Ya think??)

Didn't see the error of my ways until getting ready to transfer the holes to the ribs, spars etc:mad:

Then realised I had compounded the sin by trying to be clever and drilling both wings skins together:mad::mad: Two new skins and many hours later.....

Clive Whittfield
Auckland
New Zealand
 
Missing Stiffiners

When back riveting, don't get so wrapped up in all the process of loading rivets, taping them in place, getting out the back rivet set, setting up the gun, etc that you forget to place the SECOND piece to be riveted onto the taped-in-place-rivets before setting the rivets. I've done this more than once.

I thought that I was the only bozo to put down two rows of rivets without the stiffiner in place. Oh well, I needed the practice drilling out -3 rivets anyway.
 
#12 Always use a Caliper to measure Drill bit size and bolt size going into that hole you are going to make. The I I Is' sometimes LIE!

Ron in Oregon
 
Checking to make sure there isn't a wire bundle immediately behind the spot where you're drilling the hole always takes less time than repairing the several wires that got severed when drilling into the wire bundle.

Did this twice, learned my lesson, finally.

Mark Olson N407V RV-7A
 
I've done that:mad:but what hurts even more is hitting your thumb with the dimpling hammer while dimpling, dont ask me how I did that:eek:. My 8 year old son was standing next to me which made it a lot harder to really let it out.

Steve Stella
#40654 Wings
N521RV reserved
 
If you *do* need to store kit parts for an extended period of time...

...remove all the paper packaging!

I have a very early RV8 empennage kit, which I started 11 years ago. 10 and a half years ago, my wife became pregnant with our first daughter, and my project unfortunately had to be put into long term storage, with much regret.

Unfortunately I left the shipping paper in it, which in the end analysis was a Very Bad Idea.

A wandering family of mice subsequently found the kit to be a wonderful home ("look honey, aluminum siding!"), and while I was raising my family, they were raising theirs. And again. And again. And again.

Apparently this was a mouse family genetically disposed towards large bladders and little self control. Lacking any form of decorum or respect for the wondrous flying machine in my imagination that the kit represented, they freely and often did as mice will do, again and again, all over my
kit.

I now know more about aluminum corrosion than I ever needed to know!

:(:(:(
 
Yep...me too!

Apparently this was a mouse family genetically disposed towards large bladders and little self control. Lacking any form of decorum or respect for the wondrous flying machine in my imagination that the kit represented, they freely and often did as mice will do, again and again, all over my
kit.

Yesterday, after an 8-month hiatus from the project I love, I removed a box of small empennage parts and hardware from underneath my workbench only to discover the very same thing. After attempting to remove shredded paper and "other stuff" with the shop vac, I realized those weren't droppings flying through the hose, but rivets and various other tiny pieces of hardware that I would later have to painstakingly retrieve from the bowels of the big red sucking machine. Lesson learned...plastic bins (with lid) will be used for long-term storage of paper, plastic bags, small parts, etc. Or, don't let eight months go by without working on my project. :(
 
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