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Old 08-18-2009, 12:29 PM
aeropunk aeropunk is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Unknown
Posts: 82
Default Got a 2X Rivet Gun. Do I Need the 3X?

Hi all! The ball is rolling and I'm acquiring tools to begin the Big Project. I recently took advantage of the Brown Tool half-price sale on refurbished Sioux drills and rivet guns. They both arrived today and look like they're in great shape considering they're refurbs. It seems clear that Sioux builds a great product.

Here's the problem:

I ordered the Sioux 3X rivet gun (Model 270A), but received the Sioux 2X gun (Model 270A-2), even though the invoice clearly reads 3X. I'm sure I can send the 2X back, but of course the 3X refurbs are now sold out. I've gotten a sweet deal here, and Brown seems like a great company, but as I understand it, Van's recommends the 3X gun if you're only going to get one gun.

So, do I need the 3X gun, or will the 2X suffice? Should I send the 2X back or just suck it up? I suppose I could exchange it for a new gun, but the price was so great on this one it's hard to give up!

Any thoughts?
"When the ships returned from a mission, everybody watched for them. They came lining back
to the field in flights of four, flying tight show formation with the black smoke fading in parallel
streams behind. They seemed to be most indestructible then. They were of frozen silver."

~ James Salter

Last edited by aeropunk : 08-18-2009 at 02:42 PM. Reason: Title change.
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Old 08-18-2009, 12:44 PM
T6pilot T6pilot is offline
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Posts: 81
Smile 2X vs #x

With limited experience in riveting, a 2X will handle anything on an RV. In fact it may be preferable since it will probably be easier to control on the 3/32rivets since the blows won't be so strong and you can modulate the riveting better. JMHO...Good luck and safe flying.
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:12 PM
C-GRVT C-GRVT is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 323
Default both are nice to have

I have found that the added power of the 3X gun is essential in some spots. The 2X gun works better for me for 3/32 rivets in thin material (like skins), beats faster, not as hard, but doesn't work for 1/8 rivets in thick material, where a 3X, slower, harder beats, sets the rivet faster and without work hardening. For example, the 1/8 rivets in the leading edge to spar assemply, and in the tank to tank attach bracket come to mind where a 3X gun (on the RV-6) works well.
So, I have a very nice Sioux 3X, and an (also) very nice but less expensive 2X Avery clone, use both. The 3X certainly will work on the 3/32 rivets in thin materials, but I find the 2X is easier to control where not a lot of force is required.
Bill Brooks,
Ottawa, Canada
RV-6A finish kit
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:55 PM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,882

I agree with Bill, if I had to have only one it would be a 3x. If / when I build again, I will buy a 2x gun so I have both.
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
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Old 08-18-2009, 02:25 PM
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rolf rolf is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Petaluma CA
Posts: 74
Default Get Both

As a beginning riveter (way back when) I found the -3 gun more difficult to control with 3/32 rivets in skin. So got the -2 Sioux...what a dream!
Having both is very nice. Now, many years later, I could make do with the -3 only. What Bill said about the -3 is true, especially for the thicker material.

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Old 08-18-2009, 02:41 PM
MNAv8or MNAv8or is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Denver, Co
Posts: 137

I have both the 2x and the 3x rivet gun. I find myself reaching for the 3x gun about 90% of the time. With the harder hit, it is easier for me to control the rivet by going slower. 3/32 rivets are bucked by about 3 slaps of the gun. The one I have is not a souix gun, but i feel with a 3x and a smooth trigger you can use this gun for anything on the RV.

As for the situation with Brown tool. Give them a call. Sense you have it on your invoice it is a simple mix up on their end. If they do not have anymore refurbished guns left they may give you a new one at the refurbished price. As long as they don't have a statement on their site that says they reserve the right to substatue if they run out. They are a really good bunch of people and I'm sure they will help you out in any way possible.
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:46 PM
BrownTool BrownTool is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Oklahoma City (A GREAT Place to live!)
Posts: 86
Default 3X Rivet Gun On Its Way...


I just happened to catch this post and I am sorry to see that we shipped you the incorrect rivet gun. I will get the model 270A (3X) gun out to you today and issue a call tag for UPS to pick up the 2X gun that was shipped in error. Not sure what happened other than the humans in my shipping department got involved! (In all honesty, the guys in our shipping department do great work and they get things right 99.9999% of the time. I would go yell and rap someone on the head, but since it has been close to 100 degrees in the warehouse for most of the summer, I think I will gently remind them to pay attention to the details.)

Sorry for the hassle! I will call to confirm that you have seen this.

Michael Brown
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
Michael "AT"

Last edited by BrownTool : 08-18-2009 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:52 PM
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Rick6a Rick6a is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lake St. Louis, MO.
Posts: 2,346

Without hesitation, I'd opt for a 3x. I don't know about your kit but mine had several long AD4 (-9?) rivets to install through the forward fuselage skin, longeron and firewall gussets. No way could a 2x rivet gun even turned full up and hammering away for too long, handle those rivets. In fact, I used my 4x on those particular fasteners because doing so required less blows to adequately form the shop heads, thus reducing the chances of causing a dent in the skins even though a 3x gun would have sufficed.
Rick Galati
RV6A N307R"Darla!"
RV-8 N308R "LuLu"
EAA Technical Counselor
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:12 PM
RV7Factory's Avatar
RV7Factory RV7Factory is offline
Chief Obfuscation Officer
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 1,110
Default 3X for me...

I was thinking the same thing as Rick before I read his post. I can't imagine using a 2X on some of the long -4s in the fuse (-7).
Brad Oliver
Livermore, CA | RV-7 | SOLD
RV-7: | iPhone app list: | Photography:
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:26 PM
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scard scard is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Posts: 3,411

I use a 3X exclusively. I don't own anything else. Maybe some day I'll try a 2X, but until then, I'll continue to be dumb and happy. And, thanks Michael for piping up here. My money goes to those with something to say in this circle.
Scott Card
CQ Headset by Card Machine Works
CMW E-Lift
RV8 Building - fuselage / showplanes canopy. Last 90% reboot
RV-9A N4822C built flew 15yrs 2200+hrs.
VAF Advertiser

Last edited by scard : 08-18-2009 at 06:09 PM.
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