What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

landing and almost departing!

C

conlimon

Well Known Member
Hey all -

so I have 3 landings in the RV-8 so far (instructor in the back) and each time the landing is ok, but as I'm rolling out, I start to get squirrelly - like a groundloop in the making... I'm finding that the tailwheel is waaaaay more touchy than in a decathlon. My tailwheel has the rocket steering link, and I think this is the difference I'm experiencing. A little input goes a long way in the RV-8, and I think I'm just a bit ham-fisted (or footed) in the 8 so far. I know it's early in my transition training, but is this normal? I'm a pretty low time pilot, and I've got about 10 hours or so in a decathlon as my only other tailwheel time. I've just bought a flying 8 to have fun in while I finish my 10, and flying the 8 is FUN FUN FUN!!!!

thoughts?

cj
 
Do not worry.....

Sounds about like my experience the first time out...and I had well over 100 hrs of tailwheel. It took me a good 20 hours to get quasicomfortable--a dangerous statement itself without wood to knock on.

I know several others who had similar experiences.

FWIW: I found the tail lynx cable-spring arrangement to be MUCH easier to handle than either the Rocket link or the standard chains. They look a lot better than the chains also.
 
Cj,

That sounds about the same when I recently transitioned into an -8. I also have my tw transition in a Decathlon. Yes, a little movement in the -8 goes a long way. My first several landings were a little squirly, because I was not used to the responsiveness of the -8. I didn't feel like I was going to ground loop, however, because I still had lots of control. It is very important to stay ahead of the airplane. If you let it get in front of you too much, it will get squirly and take you for a ride. Just keep practicing and you will eventually get used to the RV.

Good luck,
 
CJ,

I think that over control is natural for someone that is used to airplanes with slop in the system. With a Rocket or Bullet link, you do have instant control, so you have to finesse it a bit more. I always cringe a little bit when folks talk about "booting" the rudder - yes, some airplanes require that, but that is kind of an "open loop" method of control, rather than putting something in, seeing what you get, and then adjusting to the right input. (Before folks think that I'm saying you don't have to be quick, I'm not - this sort of "closed loop" control needs to be done quickly - but with a little thought - usually with your "hindquarters mind"....).

I'd suggest some taxi practice - not high speed, on the runway, just moving around the ramp - this will help to train you on what you get for what you put in. I have never felt like the -8's steering is oversensitive, but I've played with a lot of variable control systems, and am used to evaluating each plane for what it needs.

Paul
 
Just A Thought

Consider installing the chains to begin with and set them up loose. Trying to remember but I think thirteen links to start.

This will give a looser set up and keep you from over controling while you are learning your new airplane. Once you feel comfortable you can remove a link from each side tightening up the slack.

Get used to it that way for a while and eventually going back to your Rocket Tailwheel Link.

Sort of a crawl,walk,run scenario.

Ted
 
Patience grasshopper.

I had the steering link on my 8 from the start, and trained in the Decathlon prior to my first flight. No problems. Be sure it's tracking straight when the rudder is neutral, and keep practicing. You'll get it.
 
conlimon said:
Hey all -

so I have 3 landings in the RV-8 so far (instructor in the back) and each time the landing is ok, but as I'm rolling out, I start to get squirrelly - like a groundloop in the making... I'm finding that the tailwheel is waaaaay more touchy than in a decathlon.

My tailwheel has the rocket steering link, and I think this is the difference I'm experiencing.

thoughts?
cj
Click to expand...

I think a lot of it is the steering link.

I personally do not like them. I know a lot of people do and that is fine. I think they have also gotten some people into trouble.
Here is why...
The use of a steering link gives a lot of steering authority. Any small movement of the rudder also provides a movement of the tail wheel. Even the tiniest movement of the rudder turns the tail wheel. This is great for taxiing but not so great when moving fast.

The nice thing about chains is that if they are set up just a little loose it is kind of like having dual ratio steering. While moving fast (this is of course when the rudder is effective) on the runway, you can move the rudder a small amount for steering and not even move the tail wheel. This allows for very small / precise steering inputs. If you end up needing a lot more, feeding in more rudder starts getting you the tail wheel also. The amount of rudder free play I am talking about is probably about 3/4" of movement either side of neutral and then you start getting the tail wheel.
I think this is much better than dealing with the sensitivity of a direct link, and I do not think you give up anything in the amount of steering control available.
 
cj

We have the standard Van's bog chains, set fairly loose, and they probably further loosened over the 1st year. At the annual I therefore tightened them up somewhat... and the next landing was "all over the place" as you describe :eek: Promptly loosened them again and all OK :)

The tail link/chains setup seems fairly personal from the posts above... With loose chains you are primarily/initially controlling direction on takeoff/landing by rudder and not tailwheel. Tighter chains / a link and rudder and tailwheel...

Andy & Ellie Hill
RV-8 G-HILZ
 
Lots of good advice here. I have flown with all the different "options" and I currently use a set of Lynx tailchains. I agree with Scott on the steering link. I just don't care for the handling with them although I see many of them installed.

I do have a different opinion on whether to set them loose or tight. I like mine almost tight. I install them with the weight off the tailwheel with very little slack in the spring. Then, with the weight of the airplane on the tailwheel, they loosen up slightly.
 
I also agree, lots of good advice. I think also that your too tight on the control between the rudder and the wheel. I remember back when I flew a lot of RC tail wheel. It was very squarly with a tight or direct link for the tail wheel. I came up with a design that gave it differential steering, although that design would NOT work on the real deal I did find on my kitfox that having loose chains with springs worked very well for cutting out the possitive action on the tail wheel. AT one time I tightened up the chains and found the it did respond very possitively. Another thing, I replaced the tail wheel, wore it out, and found it was very responsive as well, took a little landing in the dirt to take out the sticky wheel so to speak.
 
Highly recommend the Lynx

I remember seeing the first prototype at the inventors hangar when I was building a couple hangars away. I was sold. It is a very nice solution over standard chains.
Of course, I like mine loose. The recent poll noted that about 50% like them loose and 50% like them tight. I like to "feel" the rudder on roll out, not my tailwheel. Keeping them loose allows me to "tease" the rudder which gives me a great sense of control before the tail wheel comes into play. It helps me keep "oriented", which is the most difficult thing new tail wheel pilots have to learn. I think it is also very usefull in gusty cross winds.
To be fair, I have friends using a hard link as well, and they have no complaints.
 
Thanks everyone...

Lots of good advise here. I'm headed back out to the airport to practice. I've got the whole day to work the pattern, and I'm gonna use it. I'll report back!

cj
 
Occassionaly I fly a Decathalon, and its almost too easy to land.

On the opinion of keeping your chains loose, I look at that synonymously with making the steering wheel of your car loose. I know I wouldn't like a car with a loose steering wheel...it would be like making your car handle like a dump truck.
 
50/50

rocketbob said:
Occassionaly I fly a Decathalon, and its almost too easy to land.

On the opinion of keeping your chains loose, I look at that synonymously with making the steering wheel of your car loose. I know I wouldn't like a car with a loose steering wheel...it would be like making your car handle like a dump truck.
Click to expand...

Pretty much a personal choice.... A car vs an airplane? Dumptruck?
My airplane handles beautifully, loose chains and all. I also fly formation to FFI standards, which includes precise ground handling in parade, so I dont understand why some think there would be a control issue with looser chains.
To each his own....
Getting back to the post, I dont think it matters as long as the person we are trying to help here gets some good ideas and can move his training forward, loose or tight.
 
As someone who's building an -8 and has almost ZERO taildragger experience (the -8A wasn't invented when I started building), this topic has my attention.

I long ago dumped the chains in favor of the "Silver Bullet" that Joe Czacharowski's brother made, mainly because it looked cooler, made sense and was endorsed by others whose opinions I value.

Despite others' assurances that I'll transition just dandy, I can appreciate what's said about being able to feel the rudder without having the tailwheel become an issue.

What I'm wondering is, how do you suppose a new taildragger pilot would do if he had nothing with which to compare? I don't know what a Decathlon feels like, so I'll be learning primarily on my plane. Just wondering if it's an issue for many because they've got experiences in so many other taildraggers?
 
rocketbob said:
Occassionaly I fly a Decathalon, and its almost too easy to land.

On the opinion of keeping your chains loose, I look at that synonymously with making the steering wheel of your car loose. I know I wouldn't like a car with a loose steering wheel...it would be like making your car handle like a dump truck.
Click to expand...

I disagree!
Lots of land vehicals now adays have variable ratio steering...the faster you go the less sensetive/resposive the steering is. With tight chains or a steering link, the faster you go teh more sensetive the steering is.
 
JonJay said:
I remember seeing the first prototype at the inventors hangar when I was building a couple hangars away. I was sold. It is a very nice solution over standard chains.
Click to expand...

No one that regularly flew the RV-7 prototype particularly liked the steering link after it was installed. It was going to be removed, but then the airplane got converted to an RV-7A so it bacame a non issue.
 
I would like to add one more bit of advice on the taildragger. Don't dance on the peddles unless you need it, generally in choppy, unstable weather, cross wind, do you need to do this. On a nice landing, steady breeze, you don't do this, doing so could cause your problem as well.

I think landing with loose chains and compairing that to a loose steering on a truck is blown way out. As long as I have a nice solid connection to the rudder, that's what is most important.
 
Many already ahead of you did just fine...

N8RV said:
As someone who's building an -8 and has almost ZERO taildragger experience (the -8A wasn't invented when I started building), this topic has my attention.

I long ago dumped the chains in favor of the "Silver Bullet" that Joe Czacharowski's brother made, mainly because it looked cooler, made sense and was endorsed by others whose opinions I value.

Despite others' assurances that I'll transition just dandy, I can appreciate what's said about being able to feel the rudder without having the tailwheel become an issue.

What I'm wondering is, how do you suppose a new taildragger pilot would do if he had nothing with which to compare? I don't know what a Decathlon feels like, so I'll be learning primarily on my plane. Just wondering if it's an issue for many because they've got experiences in so many other taildraggers?
Click to expand...

You WILL be fine. Preferences develop over time, and opinions develop out of our human nature and experiences.
I do stick to my "opinion" that those that have been fortunate enough to fly anitiques, un-polished tail wheel airplanes, learn skills that can be applied to RV's and do have better "stick" skills. I encourage anyone wanting to fly TW aircraft to get some Cub or Champ or similar time, in winds and gusty conditions, to really feel how important it is to keep coordinated and keep that little wheel behind you. Plus, it is a boat load of fun.....scary sometimes, but fun none the less.
You can get away with a lot of sins in an RV that will bite you in other less forgiving craft. That is part of the beauty of the RV's. They are very easy TW airplanes, but still are a TW aircraft. No need to be worried. Get good training, have fun....
 
Not the link....

rvbuilder2002 said:
No one that regularly flew the RV-7 prototype particularly liked the steering link after it was installed. It was going to be removed, but then the airplane got converted to an RV-7A so it bacame a non issue.
Click to expand...

The "Tail Lynx", I think you might be confusing the two products? The "Tail Lynx" feels just like stock chains, it just uses hidden hinges and aircraft cable instead of chain. Not a hard link.
 
rocketbob
On the opinion of keeping your chains loose, I look at that synonymously with making the steering wheel of your car loose. I know I wouldn't like a car with a loose steering wheel...it would be like making your car handle like a dump truck
Click to expand...
I might agree if the purpose of the rudder pedals was to control the tailwheel ;) but it is not... else they would be called "tailwheel pedals" :D
 
Is it possible that CJ's problem could be a an issue with toe-in, toe-out on the mains? CJ, have you had another experienced RVer fly your plane to check this out?
 
Where can I find info on the Tail Lynx? Didn't find anything with a quick Yahoo search and didn't see them on the ACS site.

Thanks,
 
U TAIL LYNX...

..is Van's part number. Type it in the search box.

Scott_F said:
Where can I find info on the Tail Lynx? Didn't find anything with a quick Yahoo search and didn't see them on the ACS site.

Thanks,
Click to expand...

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
JonJay said:
My airplane handles beautifully, loose chains and all. I also fly formation to FFI standards, which includes precise ground handling in parade, so I dont understand why some think there would be a control issue with looser chains.
To each his own....
Click to expand...

I have an FFI card and have taxiied hundreds of times in parade and I don't see how on earth it can be easier with loose chains. If you're behind me you won't see my rudder flailing around.

With that said a J-3 I maintain had loose chains and students were always breaking them, so I cut them off and pulled them tight. The instructors thanked me for that one. It made their students less jerky on the rudder, so no more broken chains.

My rocket has a steering link, and I've welded/fabricated a new tailwheel assy with an angular contact bearing at the pivot and am using a 6" inflatable wheel from Matco.
 
another thought would be the mains being to grabby, when I changed my mains, I had a problem of tracking to good. A few touches into the dirt worked those nice as well.
 
well, a bit of a non-issue now... :(

I did a bunch of takeoffs and landings today with good success, then flew to another airport for lunch and ground looped the thing. :( broke the right main off, wrinkled up the right wing, prop tip contacted the ground. Didn't flip, thank goodness, but i'm bummed out nonetheless. I had landed, and was rolling out, and as the tail touched down, the airplane headed left. I believe that I was trying to correct with right rudder, but it got away from me. I don't think there was anything wrong with the airplane, but there is now. The instructor with me was also trying to help me correct, but the rear pedals are a bit goofy and I think it was just too late. I have full coverage on the aircraft, and I'll get it back together and try again. I'm not scared of it, I just feel really dumb. It really stinks to feel like a bad pilot. In the mean time, I'll continue training in the decathlon, and maybe go for some transition training with someone who really knows RVs. The good news is that no one was injured, and the plane will fly again with me at the controls. Pretty humbling though.

cj
 
cj,

Very sorry to hear this!!

Once you have the airplane fixed get some transition training from someone who is listed on this website or Van's. Better to do it in a side by side to start so instructor can have full control if needed.

Most of the transition trainers listed on Van's use chains and have them set up loose so new pilots to the RV don't over control.

When your repairing your airplane be sure and double check main gear wheel alignment.

Again, very sorry to hear this. Try and stay positive about your airplane.

Ted
 
Glad everyone is okay!!!

...however, after reading this, I'm feeling a bit sick at my stomach:(
Keep on keepin' on!
 
Bummer

CJ,

I hate to hear this. That is a real bummer for you, your CFI, and the plane.

Keep us up todate on the repairs.

When you get it back together, may I suggest you get an experianced -8 pilot to give it a try to make sure everything is as it should be.
 
Last edited:
Hey CJ
I am very sorry to hear this, but I am very glad you are ok. I know you are bummed but I also agree with having a experienced 8 driver look at your 8. You might have a toe in toe out situation, I also would give a big thumbs up to go fly with Alex D:)
I flew my 8 with the Silver Bullet from day one and absolutely love it!!
I flew Alex's 6 with the chains and much prefer my silver bullet.
 
tailwheel springs

I am with the group the dont like the rocket steering link, it is far too sensitive and in my opinion has caused many ground loops. One thing that has not been mentioned here is when you land in a crosswind with the rocket steering link it is turned as you cross control the ailerons and rudder and therefore when the tailwheel comes down it tends push you sideways off the runway. I have flown many RV-8s with the rocket steering and it takes some very fancy foot work to keep the airplane going straight when landing in a crosswind as the tailwheel comes down.. With the chains set up somewhat loose you can crosscontrol for the crosswind landing and the tailwheel will be straight down the runway. Just my 2 cents worth.

Michael Seager
Vans transition trainer for the last 16 years
 
Last edited:
I have expressed my opinion on this before. I respect those that disagree.

I do have to point out to newcomers that Mike Seager has way more experience with this stuff than any of the rest of us.
 
CJ - My heart sank a bit to hear this...

rocketbob said:
I have an FFI card and have taxiied hundreds of times in parade and I don't see how on earth it can be easier with loose chains. If you're behind me you won't see my rudder flailing around.
.
Click to expand...

Rocket Bob - You wont see mine flayling around either, and I did not say it was easier, just that it is not a control issue. I respect your opinion, but I have my own preferences too, and I did not say it was better, just not an issue.

Mike Seager - thanks for the excellent transition training although we only spent an hour together due to my previous tailwheel experience, I flew my 6 comfortably from first flight on. I set my tailwheel up just like your 7 figuring the highest time RV piilot on earth (arguable, maybe?) might actually know what he is talking about?

CJ - I am very sorry to hear about your experience. I ground looped, went onto my nose, and had an off field incident all within my first 30 hours of tail wheel flying, all in the same airplane! I then owned that same bird for 10 years and flew another 800+ hours with tail wheel craft without incident and remain incident free to this day. It is humbling, but I commend you for your attitude. When I crashed that first airplane (L3) I jumped right into the rebuild and during the three months of getting it back in the air had a lot of reflected thought. That is where I came up with my catch phrase you see below. Use the time rebuilding your airplane to do some more training, reflecting, and get that transition training. You WILL be a better pilot as a result of this experience and maybe even build some character along the way. Good luck, and the group of folks that work this site are here to help you along the way....
 
Don't let it get to you

CJ,

Let me share a quick story with you. In 1988 I was a Second Lieutenant in the Air Force and had just finished pilot training. I had done well in training, and had been selected to fly fighters. For those of us in the fighter track, we went on to a program called LIFT (Lead In Fighter Training). It was flown in AT-38s at Holloman AFB in NM. When I started LIFT I had 130 or so hours in the T-38 already from my time in pilot training. The first ride was an orientation, and a chance to brush up on our skills. Things were going pretty well, and my IP in the back seat suggested that we fly a single engine approach. I set up the approach like I was used to, but what I wasn't used to was the density altitude of the high desert. On short final I pulled the power on my good engine at the point I usually did, and the airplane dropped out of the sky. I pushed both throttles into afterburner trying to stop the sink, but they didn't light fast enough. We hit the ground HARD, and bounced back into the air. About that time the afterburners lit, but we were too slow and we started to get 60 degree wing rock which was common on that aircraft when stalled. The aircraft started what we called a "sabre dance" down the runway, and were both just passengers at that point. With both engines in full afterburner, we powered our way out of it, with my IP yelling to "Leave the gear down, leave the gear down!" We had hit so hard, the fear was damage to to gear, or blown tires. When I went back over it in my mind later, I thought to myself I probably should have ejected. At the time things happened so fast it never crossed my mind. I guess I felt a little like you probably do, but you shouldn't. When things go bad, they can go bad fast. That was over 7,000 hours of flight time ago for me, and I haven't had anything like that happen since. The point is, those things happen. Learn what you can from it, and don't let it get to you. A couple of years ago, one of my best friends landed on a wet runway, and ran off the end in an F-15. He walked away from it, but the aircraft was banged up some. He had thousands of hours of fighter time when it happened. We make things as safe as we can, but on any given day none of us are perfect. Get yourself some more tail wheel time, look at the things that may have contributed to your ground loop, but most importantly try not to let it get you down.

Mark
 
I'm with Mike Seagar on this one, guys......

.My Air Tractor has a 500 X 5 tailwheel and it's not steerable, it casters when I push the stick forward to unlock it. On takeoff and the flight, it's locked straight including the landing, crosswinds or no. Only when I push the stick full forward, does it unlock (a pin is pulled by a cable attached to the pushrod) and becomes castering. Steering is easy with differential braking and rudder.

A thought,
 
Thanks to all for the well wishes.

I really appreciate everyone's input, both pre and post accident. I'm now dealing with all of the required paperwork, etc. It definitely hits me in waves. I'm crushed, but I'll recover. I'll learn from this, and hopefully become a better pilot in the end. If others can learn from my experience, even better. For all those that have graciously offered to help in any way, I will definitely be contacting you guys after the dust settles here a bit.

And to Mike Seager, If I haven't scared you off, I'll be contacting you before I fly in this airplane again!

thanks again everyone... all the posts have really really meant a lot.

cj
 
transition training

CJ, I would be more than happy to fly with you any time. Give me a call at 503 429 5103 when you are ready. Mike
 
When it comes time and you need a place to stay...

Michael Seager said:
CJ, I would be more than happy to fly with you any time. Give me a call at 503 429 5103 when you are ready. Mike
Click to expand...

CJ - Our Airpark(WA87) is a short 5 minute flight to SPB where Mike usually does his training. I am 20 minutes drive from PDX. You are welcome to stay at my house and we can ferry you over to SPB for your training.

This offer is open to anyone else interested in training with Mike, my schedule permitting.
 
It's true, but....

n5lp said:
.............I do have to point out to newcomers that Mike Seager has way more experience with this stuff than any of the rest of us.
Click to expand...

It's true and I would never dispute the father of my baby (err, RV-6). But, I struggled to land both Alex's -6 and Mikey for many hours. When we tightened the chains on Mikey, my landings dramatically improved. I now use and very much like my Silver Bullet, although I frankly didn't notice a difference between it and tight chains.

Considering that two RV pilots that I greatly admire (Mike and Larry) endorse loose chains, I wonder why it didn't work well for me. :confused:

Bottomline, I suspect that folks who are struggling should try both ways to see what fits their style (ability, reaction time, movement time, or whatever it is) better.
 
Very Interesting Observation Louise....

Louise Hose said:
It's true and I would never dispute the father of my baby (err, RV-6). But, I struggled to land both Alex's -6 and Mikey for many hours. When we tightened the chains on Mikey, my landings dramatically improved. I now use and very much like my Silver Bullet, although I frankly didn't notice a difference between it and tight chains.

Considering that two RV pilots that I greatly admire (Mike and Larry) endorse loose chains, I wonder why it didn't work well for me. :confused:

Bottomline, I suspect that folks who are struggling should try both ways to see what fits their style (ability, reaction time, movement time, or whatever it is) better.
Click to expand...

I do think it is a personall preference once one gets past the transition, but your points bring up other questions. I wonder how much has to do with not only model of RV, but potentially issues like tracking, gear alignment, even tire inflation, or??? Would one system or another overcome a tracking issue or would it still be evident? Now, I am not saying your airplane does not track well, so please dont misunderstand or take offense.
I know I did not go through any specific tracking tests on my 6. When it was ready, some medium speed taxiing, then I flew it and it tracked very nicely on landing.
I know with my 6, most of the time in a calm wind or direct wind situation I could probably land it flat footed. So I dont think the tail wheel control type would make any difference other than in feel for me. Maybe I need to borrow one of my neighbors linkages and give it a try. Very interesting.
(PS - I know many people who are very happy with their hard link systems as well)
 
I've wondered, too

JonJay said:
I do think it is a personall preference once one gets past the transition, but your points bring up other questions. I wonder how much has to do with not only model of RV, but potentially issues like tracking, gear alignment, even tire inflation, or??? Would one system or another overcome a tracking issue or would it still be evident?
Click to expand...


I've wondered about this, as well. Another thing I did that I believed helped me during the latter part of my transition was run relatively low tire pressures. I boosted the pressure up to "normal" after I got a better feel for the plane. I also learned to wear very thin sole, tight-fitting shoes to feel the pedals better early on, but I can wear a wider range of shoes now that I have a better handle on the plane. (I still avoid my 3" pumps in the cockpit, however.) ;)
 
Louise Hose said:
...When we tightened the chains on Mikey, my landings dramatically improved...
Click to expand...
I think we are talking about different things. I know what my individual preference is and you know what worked best for you, but that is just a sample size of two.

Mike has the advantage of having seen a lot of people try it over a long period of time. I don't think what he says should necessarily influence anyone to change what they like, but maybe those making the initial decision should consider his experiences.
 
Last edited:
Jon Jay brought up the issue of tracking, and I remember discussions back when I was finishing up my -8 about how critical it was not have to toe in, toe out set correctly (basically zero). I seem to remember this was directed specifically at the -8, as it's gear geometry is different from the other RV's, and it was stated that there was a distinct "darting" behavior if you didn't have it correct.

I haven't experienced this with my plane, and was glad, as I flew Phase I off of a 30' wide temporary runway, but have (over the years) had one or two cases where I felt that the weeds were a distinct possibility. Both of these times were associated with severe gusty crosswinds, and neither occurred at the moment of tail wheel touchdown. When it comes to chains or links, I really noticed no difference when I switched between the two - except that the link felt a very small amount LES precise than the chains...

Yes, there is a lot of personal preference here, and I respect the opinions of folks that have LOTS of hours and have tried different setups - it is hard to give people advice on a comparative issue if all your experience is on one side of the argument. I have flown many, many different types of tail wheel airplanes (as have many in this discussion), and I would have to say that in my experience, the geometry of the gear probably affects how I like it more than anything else.

My advice to newer pilots is to get some good instruction from someone experienced IN TYPE, and then research, practice, and carefully try - don't just form your opinions based on what just what you read in forums or hear in the pilot's lounge.

Paul
 
The chain vs. bullet discussion is most interesting. (I have chains set up per Van's but that's not my point here.)

The locking pin on my tailwheel developed the famous burr that kept it retracted, thus allow the tailwheel to free swivel, thus it didn't really matter which type of rudder to tailwheel attachment I had.

I flew the plane about 30 hours off primarily paved runways with it this way and never noticed any impact to directional control one way or the other. In fact, I thought about removing the chains and pin altogether except for the fact that the pin keeps the rudder from slamming back and forth when the plane is parked on the ramp.

I wonder at what point the little contact patch of the tailwheel can overpower the aerodynamic control of the rudder.
 
N941WR said:
The chain vs. bullet discussion is most interesting. (I have chains set up per Van's but that's not my point here.)

The locking pin on my tailwheel developed the famous burr that kept it retracted, thus allow the tailwheel to free swivel, thus it didn't really matter which type of rudder to tailwheel attachment I had.

I flew the plane about 30 hours off primarily paved runways with it this way and never noticed any impact to directional control one way or the other. In fact, I thought about removing the chains and pin altogether except for the fact that the pin keeps the rudder from slamming back and forth when the plane is parked on the ramp.

I wonder at what point the little contact patch of the tailwheel can overpower the aerodynamic control of the rudder.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is an issue with it over powering it. It is always working to steer in the same direction as the rudder so their forces are cumulative. When you had a full time unlocked tail wheel, you were steering only with rudder during takeoff and landing (unless you were also using brakes). If you had a rocket link and a properly operating tail wheel assembly, you have a zero hysteresis system. Even the smallest movement of the rudder causes a movement in the tail wheel. This means that for any given speed, any small amount of rudder produces a lot more steering force at the tail end of the airplane. This would be the extreme opposite of how the steering felt when you had you tail wheel unlocked full time.
 
Not being in the group that has a RV to land yet, I have a question. How long do you typically hold the tailwheel off in an RV? When I flew with Dan in his -7 he held it off almost until we turned off the runway, I think Lucky was similar, but don't remember.

In this particular groundloop, it seemed to me the tail was on the ground way too soon, especially now knowing that he has a steering link.
 
Depends on three point or wheel....

osxuser said:
Not being in the group that has a RV to land yet, I have a question. How long do you typically hold the tailwheel off in an RV? When I flew with Dan in his -7 he held it off almost until we turned off the runway, I think Lucky was similar, but don't remember.

In this particular groundloop, it seemed to me the tail was on the ground way too soon, especially now knowing that he has a steering link.
Click to expand...

On a three point, you are not holding it off at all. In a wheel landing there are various opinions on how long to hold it off. Wheel landings in general, hold it off until you bleed off enough airspeed so you dont balloon back in the air when you set it down. Either way, it should not be an issue.
I dont think a Tail wheel endorsement requires you to be proficient in wheel landings. I believe it says something like, "demonstrate a wheel landing". There are quite a few threads already established on the pro's and con's of both techniques and just as many opinions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top