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B&C starter as opposed to skytec LS that went south 2 times.

Tmartin66

Active Member
Hello All,

Has anyone installed a B&C starter on an RV-14? I have the standard IO-390. I have had two Skytec LS starters with problems and am currently waiting on Skytec to send a third. Skytec has been good about warranty/replacement of the faulty starters and so far the issues have been at my home airport. So I have not been stranded yet. I'm looking for reliability.

Thanks in advance,
 
Yes

Hello All,

Has anyone installed a B&C starter on an RV-14? I have the standard IO-390. I have had two Skytec LS starters with problems and am currently waiting on Skytec to send a third. Skytec has been good about warranty/replacement of the faulty starters and so far the issues have been at my home airport. So I have not been stranded yet. I'm looking for reliability.

Thanks in advance,

Yes. I installed a b&c starter. You will need to modify the snorkel. I just started phase 1, and all seems good.
 
I have had excellent results for 360 hours with the skytec 149 NL starter as another option.
 
The Skytec 149NL does not have the problems the light weight starters have. The B&C is also a good starter.
 
Another SkyTec hater here. My 2 SkyTec starters stranded me twice before I went to the B&C and never looked back.

It doesn’t matter to me if SkyTec is “lightweight”; about the only thing it’s good for in my opinion is ballast.
 
To those that have installed the 149NL. I have the standard IO-390 with the standard avstar fuel servo all installed per plans. Will the 149NL fit without any interference other than the snorkle modification that would have to be made?
 
+1 149NL

The lightweight Skytech seems to have known issues. The 149NL has worked perfect to date.
 
I downloaded the drawings of the NL starter off of the Skytec website today and I don't believe the Skytec NL starter will fit my application. For those that were wondering.
 
I have a 14 with the thunderbolt engine/ AFM 150. I had heard issues with the LS starter and asked Lycoming to change to the 149NL while ordering which they did, no charge.

To accommodate this starter, I could cut the lug off the starter that was not used or make a minor modification to the snorkel. I choose modifying the snorkel. Pretty easy.

There also were minor wiring changes.

Added: This is an EXP98 engine version with the AFM 150
 
Last edited:
I switched to the NL from the LS, not because it failed, but because the LS didn’t have sufficient torque on cold mornings. No problems with NL in 600 hrs.
 
One issue with the Skytech is that now they sold out - the 'New Owners' are putting a core charge on outright purchase of new units - basically a sneaky tax !

We were going to order Skytech and since finding that, we have put a full B & C order in for 2 alternators, starter and oil filter adapter.
 
Just a heads up with those that have a EXP119 engine that neither B&C or Skytech NL will fit due to the FM200. I bought one and had to return it.
In my conversation with Skytech, I was told that they have redesigned the solenoid and it is in the process of changing. The solenoid counts for the majority of the failure of the LS model.
 
B and C Starter Fitment

I can positively verify that a B&C starter will not fit on an IO-360-A1B6 with the RSA-5 fuel injection. The servo and the starter are competing for the same space. We tried everything and ended up using the Sky-Tec 149-NL which fit fine. I was not involved in the engine installation so I can’t comment on the snorkel interference issues.
When I talked to B&C a couple of years back they said they weren’t aware of the fitment issues with the Lycoming Horizontal Sump. Hopefully they are briefed now.
 
...In my conversation with Skytech, I was told that they have redesigned the solenoid and it is in the process of changing. The solenoid counts for the majority of the failure of the LS model.

Interesting to see what they come up with. The current LS solenoid is an OTS aftermarket unit for Ford PMGR starters, which is what the LS is based on. The solenoid is aftermarket because Ford no longer has OEM ones available. (not that SkyTec ever used OEM ones in the first place)
 
After being stranded a couple times by the dreaded Skytec click, my A&P and I tried to install a B&C starter in my RV-14A. Couldn't get it to fit.

I did note the Skytec would turn again after cooling a few hours, so evidently our issue was heat/solenoid related.

We found a longer-term solution was to replace Skytec's solenoid with a stock automotive unit from NAPA and it's worked fine ever since.
 
After being stranded a couple times by the dreaded Skytec click, my A&P and I tried to install a B&C starter in my RV-14A. Couldn't get it to fit.

I did note the Skytec would turn again after cooling a few hours, so evidently our issue was heat/solenoid related.

We found a longer-term solution was to replace Skytec's solenoid with a stock automotive unit from NAPA and it's worked fine ever since.
Do you have a part number for that NAPA solenoid?
 
I have about 1700 hours on the original flyweight Sky Tec PM in an O-360 in a Piper Comanche and the only problem I have had is about 300 hours ago the solenoid on the starter became intermittent (not related to battery charge or ambient air temperature). I took the starter apart, cleaned the commutator, and replaced the solenoid with a new $40 auto part (Ford Crown Vic) solenoid (from Advance). That fixed it. I called the guys at Hartzell (who bought out Sky Tec) and they told me the only weak spot in that design is the solenoid, which fails more often in the aircraft application because of higher temperature and vibration levels. In addition, they pointed out that it took more current to start the 4 cylinder engines than the 6 cylinder engines.
 
update 149NL fit

Hello all,

just an update. Skytec sent me a 149NL to try in regards to fitment. I was pleasantly surprised, it fit. I had to alter the mixture control linkage a little but was not a big deal. Now just have to either do a little fiberglass work or remove a lug on the starter.
 
Hello all,

just an update. Skytec sent me a 149NL to try in regards to fitment. I was pleasantly surprised, it fit. I had to alter the mixture control linkage a little but was not a big deal. Now just have to either do a little fiberglass work or remove a lug on the starter.

Good news, you will be happy with the NL. I ground off the lug.
 
Hello all,

just an update. Skytec sent me a 149NL to try in regards to fitment. I was pleasantly surprised, it fit. I had to alter the mixture control linkage a little but was not a big deal. Now just have to either do a little fiberglass work or remove a lug on the starter.

As with Rob, I have the NL and it works great. Grinding the lug is approved by Skytec and doesn't affect the warranty. My LS solenoid went bad like most everyone else.
 
I ground off the lug as well. Thanks to all that replied with help and thanks to Rob for the pictures he emailed.
 
I replaced my flyweight Skytec (standard equipment on new engines from Van's) with their 149NL back in November 2021 on my O-360-A1A. It is much heavier than the original lightweight starter but fits perfectly and cranks well. The old flyweight starter began to cause the prop to violently flay back and forth on start -- the action was so severe that it gouged my cowling. Visual inspection showed nothing amiss with the starter, but after the second time it happened, I pulled it.




Original Skytec Flyweight starter installed O-360-A1A




Example of gouges in cowling behind spinner caused by starter malfunction




New Skytec 149NL



New starter fits fine but is much deeper (length) and heavier than original starter



Chris
 
Light weight starter

I am still looking to buy a junk light weight starter that has a good nose cone. Thanks. Ron. 815 291 8864
 
Say what?!...

The old flyweight starter began to cause the prop to violently flay back and forth on start -- the action was so severe that it gouged my cowling.

I'm trying to get my head around ^^ ^^ this description, the pictures showing the "gouges"...

it sounds like you are describing kick back, which, to be sure, is a bad thing. The gouges are most likely caused by broken/missing teeth -- did you count 149 teeth after the event?
 
I'm trying to get my head around ^^ ^^ this description, the pictures showing the "gouges"...

it sounds like you are describing kick back, which, to be sure, is a bad thing. The gouges are most likely caused by broken/missing teeth -- did you count 149 teeth after the event?

Brian:

You're right, kick back is how I described the experience to the locals here. It was quite violent and I had never experienced it before. On my second try at starting the engine engaged fine and I flew home. I asked a local A&P to look at it and he said visually it looked fine (all the teeth were there) but he noted that he had seen many failures of these units citing cracks in the case, a short in the wiring, etc. He added that it is often difficult to determine the real cause of the failure.

I flew the aircraft twice after that and the starter worked fine. On the third flight however, the same thing occurred. Again, very violent as the prop kicked back and forth over a very narrow range when I pressed the starter button. No one I spoke to about it had ever experienced such an action but I couldn't afford to let it happen again and with so few possibilities as to the cause I concluded it had to be the starter. So out with the old, and in with the new.

So far, the new starter works great and I haven't had a repeat of the kick back. There were a number of other areas with similar gouges on the cowl surface that faces the back of the spinner plate. (Note, the gouges are on the exterior of the cowl, whereas the starter gear teeth are on the inside. So I'm assuming there was contact between the cowling surface that surrounds the prop hub and the back of the spinner. I still can't imagine how the cowl would move that much to make contact but the gouges are very real. )

Chris
 
Brian:

You're right, kick back is how I described the experience to the locals here. It was quite violent and I had never experienced it before. On my second try at starting the engine engaged fine and I flew home. I asked a local A&P to look at it and he said visually it looked fine (all the teeth were there) but he noted that he had seen many failures of these units citing cracks in the case, a short in the wiring, etc. He added that it is often difficult to determine the real cause of the failure.

I flew the aircraft twice after that and the starter worked fine. On the third flight however, the same thing occurred. Again, very violent as the prop kicked back and forth over a very narrow range when I pressed the starter button. No one I spoke to about it had ever experienced such an action but I couldn't afford to let it happen again and with so few possibilities as to the cause I concluded it had to be the starter. So out with the old, and in with the new.

So far, the new starter works great and I haven't had a repeat of the kick back. There were a number of other areas with similar gouges on the cowl surface that faces the back of the spinner plate. (Note, the gouges are on the exterior of the cowl, whereas the starter gear teeth are on the inside. So I'm assuming there was contact between the cowling surface that surrounds the prop hub and the back of the spinner. I still can't imagine how the cowl would move that much to make contact but the gouges are very real. )

Chris

Chris,
Could this be a timing issue? What do you have for mag?
Not that I am an A&P or know these things well, but I can't imagine what causes for kick back or to go back and forth.
 
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHST421?impressionRank=1

It's commonly used in the 2005 Ford Crown Victoria.

I just joined the club with a broken SkyTec starter at 600 hours. Didn't work on my way home from Tucson at my fuel stop and had to take off the cowling and hit it with a hammer couple of times to make it start again for my last hop. As I am leaving for another trip this weekend I decided to put in the same one as Aircraft Spruce had it locally available and I didn't want to chance waiting and fitting an alternative.

Now my question is if I should return the one I have for the 200$ core credit or put a new 43$ relay on it and then have a spare one in my emergency bag for when the new one breaks.... .

Oliver
 
I just joined the club with a broken SkyTec starter at 600 hours. Didn't work on my way home from Tucson at my fuel stop and had to take off the cowling and hit it with a hammer couple of times to make it start again for my last hop. As I am leaving for another trip this weekend I decided to put in the same one as Aircraft Spruce had it locally available and I didn't want to chance waiting and fitting an alternative.

Now my question is if I should return the one I have for the 200$ core credit or put a new 43$ relay on it and then have a spare one in my emergency bag for when the new one breaks.... .

Oliver

The $200 is a personal call, but the starter can be repaired if it is indeed the solenoid. I have no concerns about a/my repaired unit. Just do the checks to verify the failure mode. Electrical or sticking/mechanical, case tightness etc.

https://vansairforce.net/community/showpost.php?p=1550502&postcount=16
 
The $200 is a personal call, but the starter can be repaired if it is indeed the solenoid. I have no concerns about a/my repaired unit. Just do the checks to verify the failure mode. Electrical or sticking/mechanical, case tightness etc.

https://vansairforce.net/community/showpost.php?p=1550502&postcount=16

Judging by the dozens of posts on VAF about defective/sticky Skytec solenoids, it looks like that's by far the biggest failure mode of the LS starters.

Here's the Sticky on Skytec solenoids: https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=135453
 
Chris,
Could this be a timing issue? What do you have for mag?
Not that I am an A&P or know these things well, but I can't imagine what causes for kick back or to go back and forth.

Brian:

We checked the timing and it was perfect. I have Slick mags that were overhauled at 600 hours (about 875 hours at time of incident). My A&P did notice that the engine ring gear showed some shiny (sp?) metal on a few of its teeth that implied the starter gear teeth were not engaging properly: possibly slipping in and out.

Chris
 
Starter Malfunction

I too am curious about the gouges in the cowling. What made contact with what ? Maybe another picture from farther away on the cowling to get some perspective.
 
I too am curious about the gouges in the cowling. What made contact with what ? Maybe another picture from farther away on the cowling to get some perspective.

I'm not near the airport at the moment but perhaps this will help. The image below is from Plans Drawing 48. The red arrow points to the area where the gouges occurred (disregard the gray arrow; it's an artifact from my poor editing). The gouges are on the flat circular area of the cowl that sits directly across from the spinner backplate and spinner. I included a couple of other photos for reference but they are all closeups so probably doesn't help with the orientation. I'm guessing that the shaking caused the cowl to flex and bump the spinner. Of course I had just touched up paint on the cowling in other areas. Guess I'll be doing that again. :mad:


Drawing 48 – note red arrow pointing to area of gouges. Flat face that is opposite the spinner and backing plate.


Another view of some gouging


And another view of some penetration of the paint
 
I just joined the club with a broken SkyTec starter at 600 hours. Didn't work on my way home from Tucson at my fuel stop and had to take off the cowling and hit it with a hammer couple of times to make it start again for my last hop. As I am leaving for another trip this weekend I decided to put in the same one as Aircraft Spruce had it locally available and I didn't want to chance waiting and fitting an alternative.

Now my question is if I should return the one I have for the 200$ core credit or put a new 43$ relay on it and then have a spare one in my emergency bag for when the new one breaks.... .

Oliver

My question is... Why are they charging a core charge on a NEW PART?? Do they offer a rebuilt part? NO. Then Why do they need the core?

Looks like there is no core charge on B&C starters. That makes B&C $68 cheaper. Next time, replace with B&C.

If all that is wrong is the solenoid, then replace the solenoid and sell it for $350 plus shipping.
 
I'm up to my third solenoid so far with my SkyTec LS. First one got intermittent at 10 hours and failed at 25 hours, second one was DOA from Amazon. Third one coming today.

B&C's starters (Lycoming, BCS206) seem to be sold out everywhere, with Spruce estimating shipment in December (!!). Anyone know if they are in stock anywhere? Considering my options since I've been stranded twice in 25 hours so far on the original solenoid.
 
I'm up to my third solenoid so far with my SkyTec LS. First one got intermittent at 10 hours and failed at 25 hours, second one was DOA from Amazon. Third one coming today.

B&C's starters (Lycoming, BCS206) seem to be sold out everywhere, with Spruce estimating shipment in December (!!). Anyone know if they are in stock anywhere? Considering my options since I've been stranded twice in 25 hours so far on the original solenoid.

A cautionary tale...

A friend of mine with an RV-8A replaced his starter solenoid twice. However, the root cause of his failures was the automotive patterned Starter Relay and *not* the Side-Car Starter Solenoid.

For reasons unknown, the builder decided to install the cheapest relay they had in the used parts bin at the local Autozone. Clearly not the same specs as a Cole-Hersee 24021 or Lamar X61-0030.

YMMV
 
Another solenoid failure when attempting to start after a fuel stop. Same hot weather conditions as the first starter showed problems. I gave it a few minutes and was able to get it to work.

I’ll swap out the solenoid when I get home. In the meantime I got a new solenoid to carry in the plane in case I get stuck at the fuel stop.

This starter lasted 18 months or so - about 150 hours. Perhaps a different brand of solenoid will make a difference.

Carl
20230516-160830.jpg
 
I can positively verify that a B&C starter will not fit on an IO-360-A1B6 with the RSA-5 fuel injection. The servo and the starter are competing for the same space. We tried everything and ended up using the Sky-Tec 149-NL which fit fine. I was not involved in the engine installation so I can’t comment on the snorkel interference issues.
When I talked to B&C a couple of years back they said they weren’t aware of the fitment issues with the Lycoming Horizontal Sump. Hopefully they are briefed now.
I have a IO-360-A1A with RSA-5 servo and installed a B&C. Snorkle was modified as required.
 
Sky-Tec starter

B&C makes a good product. I have their alternators on my 2 airframes. Their starter is probably very good. Sky-Tec 149-NL is a good starter, the SkyTec lightweight starter is ****. Should be pulled from the market.
 
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