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Hard Surface or Grass?

If you were considering a move to an air park, what type of runway would you prefer?

  • Hard Surface

    Votes: 60 44.4%
  • Grass

    Votes: 45 33.3%
  • It does not matter

    Votes: 30 22.2%

  • Total voters
    135
  • Poll closed .
Hi Dave,

Rich and I have lived on Air Troy for 16 years. It is a grass strip and the folks out here would never consider anything else. It is low maintenance, easy to snow blow in the winter, easy to cut in the summer, easy on aircraft tires, and more forgiving in cross wind landings. The upkeep of pavement is just not worth the trouble or expense.

Roberta
 
Given the option, I would take grass. One advantage to grass is it keeps the riffraff away. ;)
 
I prefer grass if it is very good grass. Unfortunately my soil is classified as "class 5" which is about as bad as it can get.
It's a black gumbo clay. When it gets wet, it takes weeks to dry out. Then when it finally does dry out, it cracks wide open.
Due to this wonderful feature, this spring I am digging deeply into my retirement fund and laying down Asphalt!
 
I prefer grass if it is very good grass. Unfortunately my soil is classified as "class 5" which is about as bad as it can get.
It's a black gumbo clay. When it gets wet, it takes weeks to dry out. Then when it finally does dry out, it cracks wide open.
Due to this wonderful feature, this spring I am digging deeply into my retirement fund and laying down Asphalt!

Clay is the problem here. Some 12" of rain in October and November, and the ground was still water logged until it froze recently. Now we have 1-2" of snow on top of it. I considered a launch today but did not trust the braking action on such a surface.

I've seen pictures of your Wisconsin grass, Roberta. I looks great in the summer - real dirt and real grass. :)
 
Grass for Sure!

I love our 2700 foot grass strip. It does require constant mowing and we roll it a couple of times each year to help smooth it out.

 
I have never have landed on grass

When I was renting planes, there was a prohibition on landing on grass unless it was an emergency.

Call me chicken but since I've got the little wheel up front, I have no real desire to land on grass. I would love to live in an airpark but at least for now, I would not considered buying in a airpark with a grass strip.

If my "next" plane is a tail dragger, then grass may be an option.
 
Increased Flexability

When I was renting planes, there was a prohibition on landing on grass unless it was an emergency.

Call me chicken but since I've got the little wheel up front, I have no real desire to land on grass. I would love to live in an airpark but at least for now, I would not considered buying in a airpark with a grass strip.

If my "next" plane is a tail dragger, then grass may be an option.

I learned to fly from a grass strip and could not wait to land at a big airport to see what it was like to land on concrete or tarmac. Twenty three years later I prefer grass as it is more forgiving even on a trike. Just keep the weight off the wheel at the front, which should be SOP at all times.

Give grass a try Rick, you will wonder what the fuss was all about after.
 
grass runways

666RV has over 4500 hours on it and it has lived most of it life on a grass strip hauling demo rides and students. It was the proto type tri gear airplane. Mike
 
How long has N666RV been at Scappoose?

Mike,

I flew with you in N666RV on June 1 & 2, 2005 for transition training. Has it remained at Scappoose since then? When did Van build that airplane and when did you guys move it to Scappoose?

Thanks,
 
The responses are interesting. Thanks. For sure there are those who love it and those who don't. :)

I've been flying off of this strip for over 4 years and do not have a huge gripe, except for the number of days when it can not be done because the surface is too wet or covered with ice and snow from December to April.

Granted, this has been an unusually wet year but going 3 or 4 weeks without flying because of the runway condition is not why I live here. We have been pushing the envelop this fall by flying anyhow and the turf is showing it. There are tire ruts and bare spots appearing more and more. It will take some work next spring to get things looking good - it may even involve closing the runway to give the grass a chance to recover.

It has occurred to me grass is pretty if it is seldom used. That was the case here for years, sort of a flying farmer air field with little action. Great place to take pictures on a sunny summer day. But activity is on the increase and the wear and tear is showing.

A concern in considering this matter is property value. Will a hard surface affect it? What I am trying to get a handle on is whether or not such an improvement makes any sense from an investment point of view.
 
You said it, Mel

I loved flying off grass when I was living in Florida. Nice and smooth. But as Mel says this is North Texas and what they call a grass runway here means "there's a patch of grass here, and a patch there, and a whole bunch of dirt and clay in between." It's murder on the wheel pants.

I finally convinced my property developer to put concrete in for the taxiway in front of my hangar (will pour this week or next). I've been blocked from flying for weeks due to the terrible drying properties of the clay-like soil in front of my hangar that has kept it a mud pit. And with my north-facing hangar blocking the winter sun it never dries out.

So depending on where you are located, grass can be the best runway surface ever -- or the worst.

Chris
 
Agreed on the tire issue; I've never bought tires in 20 years of flying (several different planes over the years :) ). The strip where I live is on 'bottom land' (Southerners know what that means) & most of it is very rich, loamy soil that grows grass very well but once it gets saturated has little soil strength. The Cub/Taylorcraft class stuff flies all year, but my skinny-tired RV & the heavier planes here cut it up pretty bad during really wet times and winter weather, when there isn't enough sun/wind to dry it out.

If I'd had cubic money, I might have ended up on a paved strip, but I didn't & don't so I'm very happy to swap a couple of months of flying each year for the privilege of having a house & hangar on an airport, for a lower loan payment than most pay for hangar rent.

On the investment/property value question: I have a bit of a different perspective than most. My attitude is, if I don't plan on selling, upping property value just increases my taxes.

Charlie
MS71
 
Depends on what plane you have

Grass is my favorite (and only way to go) for my Cessna 140.
I would want pavement with my RV-6A.
I hate to say it but wheel in the back - grass, wheel in the front - paved.
 
When I was renting planes, there was a prohibition on landing on grass unless it was an emergency.

Call me chicken but since I've got the little wheel up front, I have no real desire to land on grass. I would love to live in an airpark but at least for now, I would not considered buying in a airpark with a grass strip.

If my "next" plane is a tail dragger, then grass may be an option.

While taking lessons at a paved airport, I asked my instructor if I would ever get to land on grass during any lessons. He told me that their insurance didn't cover off airport landings. But...We did practice several take offs and landings on the grass beside the runway. Still airport property.(small non towered airport.)
He did let me know I wasn't allowed to take out any lights, though.

Now if this economy will pick back up so I can finish up my PPL before I feel like I'm starting over again.

In response, to the question, I would be happy just to have my own strip be it grass or paved.:D
 
Grass for me!

I took my very first real airplane ride from a grass strip over fifty years ago and to this day prefer grass strips. I regularly fly to one near Statesboro, Ga. Feels much more like "going home" to me. My RV has the little wheel up front and that has never been a problem. When I was learning to fly many years ago there was an old timer at my airport that told me to;

1. turn the radio off

2. take your shoes off

3. if you miss that first check point you'll probably miss 'em all

4. hold the nose off till the front tire starts to rot
 
I've talked with many other "A" builders that haven't finished their projects (like me) and some express concern at landing on grass strips. Some said that they will refuse to because of fear of the nose gear digging in. What say ye finished "A" guys?
 
You need to know the strip.....

I've talked with many other "A" builders that haven't finished their projects (like me) and some express concern at landing on grass strips. Some said that they will refuse to because of fear of the nose gear digging in. What say ye finished "A" guys?

....and be good at holding the elevators full up until the airplane is parked.

Beware of sand and landing at an unfamiliar grass strip after heavy rains.

A couple of weeks ago, I landed at Mallard's Landing, a private airpark south of Atlanta and had a real surprise. On rollout, at about 40 MPH, my -10 skewed sideways, to the left. It took full right rudder to keep her straight and on departure saw that I had made a 100 foot long groove in the wet stuff. Coulda been a bad day for a trike, 2 place RV, if the nosegear had been where my left main was.

Best,
 
David,
Speaking directly to your question...it depends. Yes, I think you could argue an increase in property values...which is a two-edged sword. In the end, the opinion of a prospective buyer is the only one which matters. You might want to make a quick regional survey of available airpark lots vs runway type. Tells you a little about buyer preference as well as the effect of higher price. My bet is you'll find more empty lots at the more expensive paved airparks.

Now consider engineering reality. If the soil is poor (regular wetness, or expansion and contraction with changes in moisture, or poor compaction), then paving isn't so simple. You would need a lot of soil preparation, a foundation if you please, or the new asphalt will break up. A short economic lifespan would not be welcomed by the residents. If you look at the problem as one in which surface prep and drainage work is required either way (grass or asphalt), the better choice may be to do the work and keep the grass.

Postscript: See the post by LowPass below.....exactly!
 
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All are Welcome

Mike,
Any chance you guys allow visitors? That looks like a nice field...

Dennis

Dennis,

All are welcome at 70KY Vine Grove, Ky. We are 5 miles south of Fort Knox (KFTK) or 8 miles north of Elizabethtown (KEKX). Runways are 11/29 and unicom is 122.9. The local owner/A&P/IA Randy is there every day from around 9AM - dark 30. If you come in from the north, stay west of Godman Army Airfield and don't fly over the Gold Vault. They frown on that for some reason. :rolleyes:

img1139small.jpg



I have also heard that some FBO's in the area that have rentals do not allow them to land on grass. Also I have an RV friend that does not do grass because his insurance is cheaper that way.

Stop in any time.
 
I would suggest you ask for those who have used both to reply. I've had people who've either never landed on grass or landed one time on a nasty gravel strip tell me that they don't like grass strips.

I've landed on both. Was based at a grass strip for about 4 years. My position is that a well maintained, well designed grass strip is hard to beat.

The one I used for several years was in that nasty black gumbo soil. It was generously crowned, had a good stabilized base, reinforcement (small rock I believe) and St Augustine grass on top. You could use that runway 5 minutes after a SE Texas tropical storm had passed - if the taxiways weren't under water!

I've used runways on the other end of the spectrum. I'm now based at one of the oldest airports in the country that has a 9000' former military base with concrete.
 
Grass vs Hardsurface

Grass is great, but a hard surface looks a lot better to me, when a soft muddy field eleminates weeks of flying each year.
 
Now consider engineering reality. If the soil is poor (regular wetness, or expansion and contraction with changes in moisture, or poor compaction), then paving isn't so simple. You would need a lot of soil preparation, a foundation if you please, or the new asphalt will break up.

Dan is correct here. If I hadn't had a good crushed rock base for over 5 years, I would not have been able to afford the asphalt.
The same guys that paved AeroCountry are doing my runway. They came out and inspected my "base" before even considering the job.
 
Runway surface

I have built and flown hundreds of hours in both gear type RV's. Someone said it earlier in the thread, wheel in the back grass, wheel in the front hard surface. If you are sure that the grass surface is in good condition and your confident in your technique then grass is ok even for the A model.

My 2 cents

Pat Stewart
 
Grass???

I grew up in Alaska so landing on pavement was a novelty. Landing on a beach, mountain, or what ever was a matter of pilot technique and training. I have done it in taildraggers and trikes. A 182 or a 206, 207 make good bush planes as well as the tail dragger equivalent. I was wondering though if anyone has ever used astroturf? No cutting, durable, and with a good base should last for years. Not trying to change the thread but curious,,,,:)
 
I've considered it for my yard (I really hate mowing my yard) but covering a runway with it would probably cost more than pavement. I wonder what it would be like when wet. With grass, you get a little side-loading help from the mini-ruts you're cutting when it's wet.

Charlie
 
Hi Charlie I would do it for my yard also but for some reason I am not allowed to in my sub. I was not sure about the cost as there are so many factors involved. How wide is the average airpark runway, not too mention the length. I like grass over the hard surface due to it being easy on the tires and more forgiving of my poor landings. :)
 
I've never ventured down there Mike. But I will! <BG>
Roger the gold vault comment. <BG>
I usually go north up the river to Lee Bottom. That place drains so well you can land there IN a rainstorm... How is the grass down there? Do you need a couple days of dry sunshine before attempting to use it?

Dennis


Dennis,

All are welcome at 70KY Vine Grove, Ky. We are 5 miles south of Fort Knox (KFTK) or 8 miles north of Elizabethtown (KEKX). Runways are 11/29 and unicom is 122.9. The local owner/A&P/IA Randy is there every day from around 9AM - dark 30. If you come in from the north, stay west of Godman Army Airfield and don't fly over the Gold Vault. They frown on that for some reason. :rolleyes:

img1139small.jpg



I have also heard that some FBO's in the area that have rentals do not allow them to land on grass. Also I have an RV friend that does not do grass because his insurance is cheaper that way.

Stop in any time.
 
Grass Runway Design

Back when I used to dream of building a private airstrip (when I thought someday I'd be able to afford it), I tried to think of how one would design a grass runway. Slightly crowned in the middle for water runoff to the sides seemed a good place to start. I thought it would be a good idea to sow grass at the landing zone (each end) with a grass that would take more abuse. When you look at the tire marks at a paved runway you can see which part gets the most abuse. At that point, I thought it'd be a good idea to consult with someone who knew about soils and grasses, like the county agricultural agent. That's as far as it got for me, just dreaming.

But I do recall that one of the aviation magazines (it may have been AOPA Pilot) had an article several years ago about how to build your own grass airstrip.

Monday morning ponderings...
 
I land regularly in the summer on grass and don't see it as any different, better or worse than paved. On grass, you will need a little longer takeoff run, less braking needed, potentially over heated engines if the taxi is long on quick turnarounds, blah, blah.

Besides the soil considerations mentioned, depending on where in the country one is, there are rodents that can ruin your day on grass strips. Since there are gophers in the MN neighborhood, there is some increased risk of a sod collapse into one of their tunnels, so some critter control is a good idea.

One distinct disadvantage of grass is the hugely increased bug guts on the plane. There seems to be a veritable animal farm living in the grass. This is almost a showstopper when the grasshoppers are around here during dry, late summer months. They hop right up into the prop when taxiing, and the debris goes onto the left wing, yuck.
 
I've talked with many other "A" builders that haven't finished their projects (like me) and some express concern at landing on grass strips. Some said that they will refuse to because of fear of the nose gear digging in. What say ye finished "A" guys?

The airport I live on http://www.airhaven.net/AirportInfo.asp (not a residential airpark but privately owned) has a paved and grass runway (side by side each other). I fly a 6A. I use the grass almost exclusively.
 
Grass

Most of my hours have been of grass fields, and the secrect to a good grass field is drainage, preferably 4" field drain with shingle on top up to 4 " (100mm in euro zone) of the surface. The shingle near the surface gives the surface water somewhere to go without saturating the soil and forming mud. Drains should only be 15 yards apart, therefore ideally along each side of the strip. Any rain drains away and the soil is stabilised and no mud puddles form. Also this stops cracking as well. Well that my theory and I'm sticking to it. p.s. I installed drains on my strip exactly as described and now it is usable all year round. Recently with all the snow we have been having in the UK there wre two lines where the drains are that the snow melted first. Some other areas not drained resembled the Somme in1916.

Rob
RV8 extremely slow build.
Nice friends who let me fly their RV6's and a RV4
 
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