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  #11  
Old 11-25-2022, 08:50 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Quote:
From Earth-X's website:
Other companies sell a balancing charger, which you have to plugin periodically to “top off” and balance the cells. Inside every one of the ETX-Series batteries is a microprocessor Battery Management System (BMS) that monitors the charge level of each cell and balances the charge when needed, protecting the cells from overcharge or over-discharge.

Seriously, is there any automotive or aircraft LiFePO battery without internal cell management?
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Last edited by scrollF4 : 11-25-2022 at 12:37 PM. Reason: Civility
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  #12  
Old 11-25-2022, 10:38 AM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Seriously, is there any automotive or aircraft LiFePO battery without internal cell management?
I dont know anymore, but the first couple that ACS sold (well before EarthX existed) had pretty much NO internal BMS. The well-circulated video of a “smoke event” in a homebuilt was one of those, and it haunts the LiFePO battery world to this day - sort of like claiming that all modern cars are as hard to start as a Model A….. things advance!
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Last edited by scrollF4 : 11-25-2022 at 12:38 PM. Reason: Quoted content...civility
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  #13  
Old 11-25-2022, 12:25 PM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Seriously, is there any automotive or aircraft LiFePO battery without internal cell management?
Shorai. Working fine for Dave Anders, me and a few others here on VAF years later.
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Last edited by scrollF4 : 11-25-2022 at 12:38 PM. Reason: Quoted content...civility.
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  #14  
Old 11-25-2022, 12:53 PM
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I'm speaking of cell balancing, the subject of the referenced EarthX note, not over-voltage protection, the issue resulting in battery melt and smoke.

Are there any LiFePO batteries without active (chip based) or passive (resistor based) cell balancing? Best I know, it's required for any practical LiFePO pack.
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  #15  
Old 11-26-2022, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by rv6ejguy View Post
Shorai. Working fine for Dave Anders, me and a few others here on VAF years later.
+1

Dan it has external cell balancing not an internal BMS, it makes the battery much less expensive.
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  #16  
Old 11-26-2022, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL View Post
+1

Dan it has external cell balancing not an internal BMS, it makes the battery much less expensive.
But requires you to connect the external charger periodically to balance the cells. My preference (personal) is to have the BMS in the battery take care of the balancing in flight, and I never have to mess with a ground charger.
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  #17  
Old 11-26-2022, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by wawrzynskivp View Post
I have an ETX 680 that is about five years old and been in service for 3 1/2 years. It hadn't shown me any real degradation, until it got really cold.

Cold cranking Amps should be 320 at 0F but at perhaps 8F I got about three turns and went into solenoid stuttering. With a few attempts with lots of recovery time in between it did start, but it was very close to failing.

Once it warmed up it behaved very normally. Normal amount of charging for voltage state etc.

So for you Earth-X folks beware the cold cranking capability as it ages.
I just bought my second Earth-X ETX900 and wanted to do a report card on the one I replaced, so this was a timely thread to do it.

I originally purchased the first one 4 and 1/2 years ago (June of 2018) Mine is mounted on the firewall, and I had some issues at first because I had not protected the battery properly from the heat from the convection from the exhaust after shutdown and the hot environment during flight. I knew this, because i wired the fault indicator to one of the discrete inputs to the G3X touch. The BMS told me of the high temp. It got so hot once that the battery case deformed on the bottom. Earth-X (to their credit), re-cased my battery for free and I reinstalled with a full enclosure, and top shroud that bathed the battery with cooling air from the plenum via a 3/4 inch scat hose. No problems since.

Recently When the engine was cold (thick oil), and with my 10 to 1 pistons, the battery would trip on high current sensing, and the BMS would shut off for a few minutes. After a few tries, when it would get over the first hump of compression, it would start normally. The battery was just getting old, I guess.

After consulting with Earth-X, I bought a brand new 900, which has newer software running the BMS, and Wow what a difference a fresh one makes. The voltage will not even drop now enough to kick the G3X screen off line, while cranking.

The new one spin's the 10 to 1 pistons over like crazy, even when cold.

The old battery still would be great for a mower, 4 wheeler, etc. It has over 350 hours flight time, probably 600 plus start cycles on it, and who knows how many turn ons, for loading software in the screens, etc.

This is great product, but they all have a service life, so maybe it's time to upgrade to a newer one.
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  #18  
Old 11-26-2022, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL View Post
Dan it has external cell balancing not an internal BMS, it makes the battery much less expensive.
The "how" is probably simple charge limiting. I have a note out to Shorai.
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Last edited by DanH : 11-28-2022 at 05:15 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11-26-2022, 08:17 PM
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Default Battery cases

Just FYI the EarthX 680, 900 and 1200 have the exact same case size if you want to add a little more ampacity next time you swap it out. My 900's are 4 years old to date (2.5 years flying) and to date little to no degradation in ampacity and I also did not take care of heat issues early on. Now have blast tubes and Anti-splat exhaust shield in place and lower battery is 40 F cooler.
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  #20  
Old 11-26-2022, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
The "how" is probably simple charge limiting. I have a note out to Shorai.
I'd be interested in knowing how this works - I had thought that a BMS was mandatory to be able to address the exact voltage of each individual cell.
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