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GRT Sport SX - necessary add-ons for instrument training

bigwheel

Member
Hi everyone. I apologize that I'm asking for some hand-holding. I've been reading the manuals and searching the forums but I'm still pretty cloudy on what I need to add to my plane to make it capable of being used for instrument training.

When I installed the EFIS a few years ago I thought I read in the manuals that it could be used to fly approaches in simulated IFR conditions for training without the need of an IFR navigator. Now I can't find this in the manuals and it looks like I'll need a certified navigator.

I'm rereading the manuals to try and gain a clearer picture but can any of you GRT gurus help me out? I don't want to fly my plane in actual IMC, I just want to use it for some of the training so installing a certified IFR navigator doesn't make sense.

Thanks!
 
The IFR approach option was available for the Horizon series EFIS, but not the Sport. As far I as understand, there is no way to fly instrument approaches with the Sport without an IFR navigator. I recently added a GPS 175 to my panel with a Sport SX and really like it. Not inexpensive, but not a bad value either for adding instrument capability.

Chris
 
There is no requirement to demonstrate gps approaches on the instrument practical test, just one precision (or LPV), two different non-precision approaches. e.g., if you have an SL30 or similar nav-com, and you and the examiner can fly to an airport with an ILS and a VOR, you can do the ILS, LOC, and VOR approaches to fulfill the test requirements. Make certain these approaches do not require DME or GPS fixes, or, God forbid, an NDB. An SL30 is ideal, because it can simultaneously provide primary guidance and a vor cross fix, to locate required fixes.
Now, in the real world, gps approaches are everywhere, VOR’s are getting rarer and harder to find. But they’re out there.
Previous poster mentioned the GRT GPS-LPV system using their $500 gps plus EFIS software. While this is good for training, I don’t think examiners are allowed to use it during tests, as it lacks any faa approval (TSO, etc).
Bob (cfii)
Edit: I’m not sure, but I think an ARINC converter was an option for the Sport. Most VOR receivers will require that converter to communicate with your efis, but not the SL30, which is RS232 only. Another reason it’s the best nav ever made, and why I specifically mentioned it.
 
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The IFR approach option was available for the Horizon series EFIS, but not the Sport. As far I as understand, there is no way to fly instrument approaches with the Sport without an IFR navigator. I recently added a GPS 175 to my panel with a Sport SX and really like it. Not inexpensive, but not a bad value either for adding instrument capability.

Chris

Thanks Chris, I must read the Horizon manual and was remembering that info. The GPS175 is a cool setup but since I do not intend to use my plane for instrument flight so it would be a waste of money. I don't even use the EFIS for navigation now. Tablets are just so much more user friendly and easier to keep updated.


There is no requirement to demonstrate gps approaches on the instrument practical test, just one precision (or LPV), two different non-precision approaches. e.g., if you have an SL30 or similar nav-com, and you and the examiner can fly to an airport with an ILS and a VOR, you can do the ILS, LOC, and VOR approaches to fulfill the test requirements. Make certain these approaches do not require DME or GPS fixes, or, God forbid, an NDB. An SL30 is ideal, because it can simultaneously provide primary guidance and a vor cross fix, to locate required fixes.
Now, in the real world, gps approaches are everywhere, VOR’s are getting rarer and harder to find. But they’re out there.
Previous poster mentioned the GRT GPS-LPV system using their $500 gps plus EFIS software. While this is good for training, I don’t think examiners are allowed to use it during tests, as it lacks any faa approval (TSO, etc).
Bob (cfii)
Edit: I’m not sure, but I think an ARINC converter was an option for the Sport. Most VOR receivers will require that converter to communicate with your efis, but not the SL30, which is RS232 only. Another reason it’s the best nav ever made, and why I specifically mentioned it.

Thanks Bob. I've been planning to install an MGL N16 com radio which supossedly works just like the nav portion of the SL30. I really like my V16 so I'm hopeful the N16 will be good too.

I thought flying gps approaches during training would be good and I was hoping I could do that to start my training sooner rather than waiting till I get the N16 installed. I think it must have been the Safe-Fly gps/approach software setup I was thinking of. Buying the safe-fly would have been good since I could use it for an ADSB system too but now I'm understating things a bit better. I wish the SX would work with the GRT system but I understand why it won't.

I have an ARINC converter on the shelf but like you said, the SL30 or N16 won't need it. I got it so I could install an approach GPS at some point but I doubt that will ever happen.

Thanks guys!
 
An SL30 is ideal, because it can simultaneously provide primary guidance and a vor cross fix, to locate required fixes.
You should check to see if the N16 has this functionality. Although only one VOR NAV receiver is necessary, finding a fix would be very challenging having to flip the NAV back and forth.
 
You should check to see if the N16 has this functionality. Although only one VOR NAV receiver is necessary, finding a fix would be very challenging having to flip the NAV back and forth.

I’ll double check. When I was looking at it before it had all the functionality of an SL30 plus a couple more. But I was just comparing functions and didn’t, still don’t, know what they all mean.
 
I looked, and the literature says the N16 can bring in a second VOR while tuned to either a first VOR or a LOC. I presume time-multiplexed just like the SL30.
Just a note, you can start your IFR training a bit before getting a Nav receiver installed. Early-on work should include basic instrument-attitude flying, unusual attitude recovery, steep turns, partial panel (as much as possible with a single EFIS!), etc. If there's an Air Force base nearby they might or might not allow civilians to shoot practice PAR approaches. For starting instrument students, I always turn off all moving maps. Otherwise the student becomes dependent on them for life.
 
And you can work on tracking a course and maintaining altitude. Keep the needle centered and maintain altitude +/-100ft or better. Don't fly the magenta line on the moving map, use the HSI. Then stable constant rate turns. Then constant rate 500 ft/min climbs and descents.
 
And you can work on tracking a course and maintaining altitude. Keep the needle centered and maintain altitude +/-100ft or better. Don't fly the magenta line on the moving map, use the HSI. Then stable constant rate turns. Then constant rate 500 ft/min climbs and descents.

Unless I misunderstood, at this time the OP has zero navigation equipment. There is no magenta line, no needles to move, nothing showing a course to track. His question was how little he could get by with.
 
Unless I misunderstood, at this time the OP has zero navigation equipment. There is no magenta line, no needles to move, nothing showing a course to track. His question was how little he could get by with.
Possibly. I assumed that the OP had a GPS connected to his EFIS since they were asking about GRT capability to simulate instrument approaches on GRT EFIS. If they have a GPS connected, they can load a flight plan, bring up a CDI and fly a course. The sport has that capability with an inexpensive VFR gps. But I did make the assumption that the OP had a GPS connected.
 
Bob, My instructor was brought up in the moving map age...I don't think they could fly if they didn't have a magenta line. I just started following the magenta line with this EFIS which might be why I can barely use the thing. I mostly just leave it on the engine page and look out the window.

Currently the EFIS is connected to two GPSs, the internal GPS and a Garmin WAAS puck gps for backup. I have forgotten how to load a flight plan but I could re-learn that and use the EFIS for tracking a course and such.

Thanks for the help guys. I sincerely appreciate it.
 
Okay, so I misunderstood. You could start training tracking courses, as well as the other stuff. I guess I’m an old guy (Well, it’s not a guess -:) ). I find the current over-reliance on the magenta line unsettling.
 
A couple ideas.

Since you have a GPS connected to your Sport, you can load a flight plan that is actually an approach, ie load way points for IAF, FAF, Miss point and fix associated with the miss. All of that is on the approach plate and in the GRT database. As a bonus, if you have an autopilot, it should follow the flight plan, although you'll learn more hand flying.

Garmin has a really good simulator for many of their GPS. The one for GNS430 is getting dated and the database is 20 years old, so not too useful but the underlying logic is the same as today. The one for GPS 175 is current and is what I use (I have a GNC355) and I sure the GTN is good also. Using the simulator you can actually fly the approaches (or just fly trips like you would do in your airplane) and see how the navigator works. I really like that the GPS 175 sim has a manual built in that has instructions for operating the sim and the full pilot guide, so it's easy to stop and look at the reference when needed.

A feature I like about the sim is if you are a distance from the IAF, you can speed up to 300 - 400 kts and get there pretty fast, that's a lot better than waiting 20 -30 minutes to fly there at 150 kts!

There also are a number of good You Tube videos including several by Garmin that I refer to. The ones for GTN are pretty applicable to GPS 175 too.

Hope this is helpful. BTW, the manual for the approach feature you were looking for is online at

https://grtavionics.com//media/Instrument-Approach-User-Manual-Initial-Release.pdf

I don't think the data is still available.

Jim Butcher
 
The IFR approach option was available for the Horizon series EFIS, but not the Sport. As far I as understand, there is no way to fly instrument approaches with the Sport without an IFR navigator. I recently added a GPS 175 to my panel with a Sport SX and really like it. Not inexpensive, but not a bad value either for adding instrument capability.

Chris


I was told by GRT that the Sport SX will take the direct RS232 input of an SL30 or TrigTX56a Nav radio and will show the needles for an ILS/VOR approach
 
I was told by GRT that the Sport SX will take the direct RS232 input of an SL30 or TrigTX56a Nav radio and will show the needles for an ILS/VOR approach

This is true. But the old post you quoted, while not completely clear, was specifically directed toward GPS based approaches
 
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