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  #391  
Old 07-19-2012, 10:25 PM
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tkatc tkatc is offline
 
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I am no an expert on the ads-b stuff, yet. My requirements will not change wether aircraft are equipped or not. Ads-b will be supplemental to ATC services.

If the transponder is out, off, or nonexistent all we see is a primary radar return. ( a blip)

There are several instances where we are required to call the traffic regardless of if we are seeing a transponder return or not. We are required to call all traffic to turbojets if the targets appear likely to merge. When we don't see transponder info, then you will hear "type and altitude unknown".
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  #392  
Old 07-19-2012, 10:29 PM
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This is our rule concerning merging targets:

5-1-8. MERGING TARGET PROCEDURES

a. Except while they are established in a holding pattern, apply merging target procedures to all radar identified:

1. Aircraft at 10,000 feet and above.

2. Turbojet aircraft regardless of altitude.

REFERENCE-
P/CG Term- Turbojet Aircraft.

3. Presidential aircraft regardless of altitude.

b. Issue traffic information to those aircraft listed in subpara a whose targets appear likely to merge unless the aircraft are separated by more than the appropriate vertical separation minima.
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  #393  
Old 07-19-2012, 10:36 PM
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Section B above is of particular interest here...since we have no way of knowing the altitude of a "blip", the traffic gets issued.

As far as a "blip" being incorporated into the data stream....well, that remains unknown to me BUT if I had to guess...I would say NO, it would not be included. Certainly this new equipment will have default or programmable filters so it only shows you traffic of concern. With that in mind, it wouldn't know whether or not to filter out that target.

Again, I don't know a lot about this new technology, so I am just thinking out loud.
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  #394  
Old 08-01-2012, 06:31 PM
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I have some new information addressing the concerns posted on this thread recently.

A radar sweep is a bit longer than 3 seconds as I quoted before. It is actually 4 to 4.5 seconds per sweep.

There are 2 types of interrogaters in use throughout the majority of the country. The first system, ATCRBs, is an older system that continously broadcasts and receives on each sweep, so essentially you are interrogated on each sweep. The second system, MODE S, can actually "predict" your position and information after it initially acquires you making it a more efficient system. It requires less information to be broadcast back and forth saving time and congestion. It also frees up "bandwidth" (for lack of a better term) so that additional information can be passed.

A primary target, a blip, or an aircraft without an operating transponder (choose your own title) will not be broadcast into the data stream from ground based stations. (without altitude information, I doubt your equipment would show it anyway). There are 398 ground based stations and that number is expected to increase for redundancy.

I am impressed and excited over this technology and can only imagine what it may become. I suppose it will eventually make controllers obsolete. Sort of like larger retail stores are equipped with self checkout lanes. Hopefully I'll be long retired by then.

At the shop we also talked about the 2020 ADS-B mandate. Does this mandate include ALL aircraft or only aircraft that intend to fly into certain airspaces? If ALL aircraft, does that mean older types without equipment will be grounded? Hmm...
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  #395  
Old 08-01-2012, 06:40 PM
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Here is a good read on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADS-B
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  #396  
Old 08-06-2012, 08:47 PM
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Thanks Tony for following up on this. It's been very educational!
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  #397  
Old 08-08-2012, 12:46 AM
Bavafa Bavafa is online now
 
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Default Two questions regarding IFR instructions

A couple of days ago we flew to KMRY which we had filed IFR and had the most interesting (read erratic) communication with ATC. For once, the errors were not on my part or at least not solely.

Mistakes aside which was acknowledged and did not cause any issues or concern, two question has come up for me that I am hoping to get clarification on here. First question is about the very first controller who we got our clearance in the air. The clearance was all simple and close to what we expected, heading 170 to ECA, v585, PATYY, v111 SNS. However the heading he had given us would not take us to ECA, it was off by at least 30 degrees and there was no appreciable wind. I asked him if we are clear to our next leg (ECA) and was using my GPS to get there which it was confirmed but he insisted that I follow the heading he was giving. I did so only shortly later the next controller cleared us direct to a way point much closer to our destination and nullified the issue. So, the question is how far should I have followed the heading knowing it is not going to get me to the way point had we not got the new instruction?

The second question, on the approach (ILS 10R) I was given a heading (presumed the last vector) to join the Loc but was not cleared for the approach. It didn?t take long to intercept the Loc and repeated calls to the controller to see if I am clear went unanswered. I believe there was some communication (radio) issue but don?t believe it was on my side as I tried it on my second radio and I could hear other aircraft calling him with no answer. Anyway, when I intercepted the loc, I got myself established and after a few more tries to ATC, made a call to tower which they cleared us for landing. Now the question is did I violate any rules and should I have kept the last heading I was given or was it correct to get established on Loc. It was IMC as we were in a rather thick fog.


As always, thanks in advance for your wisdom.
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  #398  
Old 08-08-2012, 05:19 PM
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First part, FOLLOW the heading. It SOUNDS to me like he gave you a vector to keep you clear of something (traffic or an airspace boundary that he doesn't own), we do this often and then when you are clear of what we want to miss, we would send you direct to a point along your route of flight. (which eventually happened). Going direct to a point is NOT what your were issued, you were issued a heading. (At least that is what it sounds like happened to me)

Second, were you told to fly XXX heading to join? If so, that is what he meant. Fly that heading and join the localizer, which you did, perfect. Yes, you still need a clearance to descend via the glideslope and in the absence of that, you correctly inquired about it. Radio failure has a whole set of different rules. You finally found alternate means to communicate with ATC. Kudos. I think you performed perfectly.
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  #399  
Old 08-08-2012, 05:33 PM
Bavafa Bavafa is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkatc View Post
First part, FOLLOW the heading. It SOUNDS to me like he gave you a vector to keep you clear of something (traffic or an airspace boundary that he doesn't own), we do this often and then when you are clear of what we want to miss, we would send you direct to a point along your route of flight. (which eventually happened). Going direct to a point is NOT what your were issued, you were issued a heading. (At least that is what it sounds like happened to me).
Thanks for the feedback. On first point, I agree that I was given a heading and should have followed it but what had confused me was that the instruction was ?clear xyz via heading xxx to 123? which I took that as he is giving me an initial heading till I find my real heading that would takes me to my way point. I think a bit more info as the reason for diversion would have cleared the confusion.

Luckily in that area I was in clear VFR and there was no cause of concern in regards to safety.
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  #400  
Old 08-08-2012, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavafa View Post
Thanks for the feedback. On first point, I agree that I was given a heading and should have followed it but what had confused me was that the instruction was ?clear xyz via heading xxx to 123? which I took that as he is giving me an initial heading till I find my real heading that would takes me to my way point. I think a bit more info as the reason for diversion would have cleared the confusion.

Luckily in that area I was in clear VFR and there was no cause of concern in regards to safety.
I agree, the communication could have been better. Not knowing exactly what was said, I can only speculate. Usually you will hear something like "Cleared to XYZ via radar vectors to ABC, V1, DEF, XYZ. Fly heading 180" It is typically understood that the pilot fly the issued headings until intercepting XYZ or cleared direct to a point along the route.

I understand that it is easy to miscommunicate in this scenario. The preferred way to do this is to pick up the clearance on the ground.
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