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Section takeoffs

sailvi767

Well Known Member
A friend recently did a formation clinic with lots of very experienced RV formation pilots. KC Flight Team, Falcon Flight Team, and Smoke On were all at this clinic. They taught him to use brakes to maintain position until 40 knots on a section go. I have hundreds of section takeoffs in many types of aircraft and using brakes to maintain position was never taught. There are lots of reasons using brakes is a bad technique. Am I missing something unique to the RV? Blowing a tire using brakes at takeoff power could be a disaster on a formation takeoff.
 
Only used power on section takeoffs, brakes only momentary when acceleration was too much, but basically, never used. Power modulation was enough to control position keeping on takeoff. I’m not a former military pilot, but I haven’t had to use my brakes during a section takeoff, and I’ve done numerous section takeoffs.
 
No brakes ... bad idea

Most of my experience is military and touching brakes would cost you two tires and a trap back home, followed by a serious chewing and two weeks on the duty desk recalling your previous bad judgement. Right out of the NATOPS manual!

I don't see why an RV should be any different.
 
I was at that clinic and have been at many others. I have never heard of this practice or have I even heard anyone mention it. All fore and aft position is maintained with throttle only.
Ryan
 
Using brakes during the initial brake release, before power is advanced, is common technique in RV section TO when the wing aircraft's initial acceleration is overtaking lead. Applying minimal momentary pressure to match acceleration during initial launch, while maintaining current power, then match acceleration with throttle advance and continue the TO using proper throttle tech only. Using brakes after this initial phase is not encouraged and up to 40kts would be excessive. Most RVs will not catch back up to leads acceleration if wing's power is reduced during this initial phase. Even more so with Fixed pitch props.

With more experience each person will adopt the techniques that are best suited for the type of aircraft they are flying. Fly safe, Have Fun!
 
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Nope

I suppose I have done a few hundred formation takeoffs and have never felt the need to use brakes. Something is wrong with your throttle technique if you need to stomp on the binders.
 
This post might add a little to the mix.

After I had soloed my RV7A for the first time. As time continued to built over the next few weeks, I advanced the throttle once to about 1/2 to 3/4 during the initial take off run. I did not intend to do that, I cannot tell you why, but it happened. I was taught to give it "full power" on take off.

All of a sudden the plane took to the air. Wow, there I was flying without full power. Surprised as I was, I immediately applied full power and all proceeded without incident.

I was reading the messages on this post, taking off in a formation, I think that the throttle would be an important part of the procedure, especially flying in a plane like mine. I do not know how to handle a plane that only requires a portion of the throttle power to lift off. Unless all the RV's act in the same manner. So everyone in formation adds full power and they all lift off together.

Thanks for listening.
 
DaveO

During section takeoffs the lead aircraft uses a reduced power setting so the wing aircraft have a power advantage to use for position keeping. Due to different aircraft weights, configurations (HP/Prop), and performance the two aircraft may not lift off at the exact same point down the runway (that is OK). These config differences may also contribute to formation aircraft not launching at exactly the same rate on initial brake release, even with the same initial power settings.

Anybody looking for more information on formation flying should visit www.FFI.aero .
 
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Anyone watching the temps on even full thickness, new rotor discs, under use, wanting abort reserves, would not suggest this...

If one does this, be prepped with inflammable brake fluid and always check for a soft pedal before landing.
 
I have flown with a few of the guys from KC and Falcon and been in and assisted in some formation clinics. Something must have been "lost" in translation if anyone from any of these highly skilled groups suggested using brakes for station keeping during formation takeoffs.
Formation takeoffs are pretty simple and even inexperienced pilots should have no trouble keeping station without brakes if they where properly cleared for two ship solo.
 
FFI Manual

This is straight from the FFI manual:

• Lead comes to a complete stop when in position.
• Wingman should line up in a position that is acute of the normal bearing line, aligning Wingman's leading edge with Lead's trailing edge, and with sufficient wingtip clearance to ensure that each aircraft can clear the other in case of an abort or a blown tire. Typically each aircraft lines up on the center of his or her half of the runway, width permitting.
• Wingman also comes to a complete stop.
• Lead signals run-up with a twirled finger above the head.
• All aircraft firmly hold their brakes, run up to 1700 RPM, and check instruments.
• When Lead is ready, he (she) looks to Wing. Wing indicates ready with a head nod.
• Lead will slowly draw his (her) head back, and then give a large head nod forward. All pilots then release their brakes simultaneously and slowly advance the power.

This process should be slow and deliberate, taking at least 5 seconds for Lead to advance to the takeoff power setting, which is somewhat less than full takeoff power. Setting correct takeoff power must be tailored to the Wingman's power available, a technique learned through experience and practice.
• A smooth rotation should be at a slightly higher than normal speed, approximately 60 KIAS / 70 MPH
Skylor
RV-8
 
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The video in my signature block shows a four-ship formation takeoff from Lakeland. You can see that we all raise the tail at the same time and hold the same angle of attack during the roll. There is no discernible rotation at liftoff so just holding formation position insures that all lift off at the same time. Using brakes at any point would likely cause a mess! An abort by any aircraft should be done by slowly retarding the throttle and when WELL CLEAR of the formation adding brakes as required.
 
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