What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Camguard or Phillips victory

RicoB

Well Known Member
Patron
Got a question! Which additive is better to use? Camguard or Phillips victory (oil/additive included)
 
Shell 15W-50. With MMO.

From the Shell Oil Spec sheet :
AeroShell Oil W 15W-50 already contains, in the correct proportions, an anti-wear additive equivalent to the Lycoming additive LW 16702; operators who use AeroShell Oil W 15W-50 DO NOT need to add this Lycoming additive to the oil.
 
Last edited:
Aeroshell 100 W Plus

Since modern FAA-approved ashless dispersant oils already include additives that make them superior to straight mineral oil, the use of additional oil additives in Lycoming engines has been very limited. The only additive approved by Lycoming is Lycoming part number LW-16702, an anti-scuffing, anti-wear oil additive. The policy governing use of this oil additive is spelled out in the latest revisions of Service Bulletins 446 and 471, and in Service Instruction 1409. These publications approve the use of LW-16702 for all Lycoming reciprocating engines except those that utilize a friction-type clutch and a common engine
oil system for the transmission and clutch assembly. The use of LW-16702 is required in certain engine models. These models are the 0-320-H, O-360-E, LO-360-E, TO-360-E, LTO-360-E, TIO and TIGO-541

Per SI 1409, AS 100W Plus already has LW-16702 in it. So that's what I use.
 
If You want

Anti scuff, why make it look like a lab experiment, buy one of many oils that have it added, that is what i do.
 
Andy Granatitelli was right way back when. STP hands down!

Andy Granatelli was the PT Barnum of of the automotive industry.:)

I’m pretty confident that Camguard, MMO, Victory, or no additive at all will all give the same results.
 
Last edited:
Andy Granatelli was the PT Barnum of of the automotive industry.:)

I’m pretty confident that Camguard, MMO, Victory, or no additive at all will all give the same results.

Actually, I am pretty sure that camguard has been tested with documented results. I will see if I can find the report…
 
Rotella diesel oil
Nice. Seeing that we're heading off the reservation on this, I'd prefer to run a full synthetic, such as Motul 300V for improved lubricity for air cooled cylinders and a longer service life. Maybe someday after leaded avgas is no longer a thing.

I've had great service from Phillips X/C line for many years and thousands of hours of engine life. I switched to the Victory line when it came out and have found continued, consistent results, as evidenced by both filter inspections and lab analysis which I do with each change with ~50 hours on the oil, depending the time of year and my work schedule.

Both Aeroshell and Victory (essentially X/C line with the additive) have the LW-16702 additive and comply with the Lycoming Service Bulletins 446E and 471B and Service Instruction 1409C; no additional additives are needed.

All of the additives aside, the real key to long engine life is less about which of the approved oils you use and more about continued operation of your engine using them - keeping the internals wetted with oil.

Actually, I am pretty sure that camguard has been tested with documented results. I will see if I can find the report…

I remember reading that as well Bob. I also recall reading a report from Blackstone Labs some time back, probably still available in their website archives, declaring almost no difference in engine life or metals found in their analysis from many thousands of aircraft piston engines samples, but it did not include the Victory line at that time; I suspect if they redid their comparison again today, it would provide a similar result.
 
Last edited:
My O-320 has 1000 hours on it. I've been using Phillips XC since new. The Phillips rep at Oshkosh told me to continue using XC. If I was using an additive, it would make sense to change to Phillips Victory oil.
 
Nice. Seeing that we're heading off the reservation on this, I'd prefer to run a full synthetic, such as Motul 300V for improved lubricity for air cooled cylinders and a longer service life. Maybe someday after leaded avgas is no longer a thing.

I've had great service from Phillips X/C line for many years and thousands of hours of engine life. I switched to the Victory line when it came out and have found continued, consistent results, as evidenced by both filter inspections and lab analysis which I do with each change with ~50 hours on the oil, depending the time of year and my work schedule.

Both Aeroshell and Victory (essentially X/C line with the additive) comply with the Lycoming Service Bulletins 446E and 471B and Service Instruction 1409C, and have the LW-16702 additive; no additional additives are needed.

All of the additives aside, the real key to long engine life is less about which of the approved oils you use and more about continued operation of your engine using them - keeping the internals wetted with oil.



I remember reading that as well Bob. I also recall reading a report from Blackstone Labs some time back, probably still available in their website archives, declaring almost no difference in engine life or metals found in their analysis from many thousands of aircraft piston engines samples, but it did not include the Victory line at that time; I suspect if they redid their comparison again today, it would provide a similar result.


Many years ago, we had a C-320 Skynight. We have always run Mobil 1 synthetic in our vehicles with excellent results, so we were excited to try the new Mobil AV 1 for aircraft...

It didn't end well. Shutting down the engines after the first long XC, both props feathered, which was not normal. Checking the oil revealed it had turned into, for lack of a better description, what you would find in a baby's diaper.

Mobil ended up paying to have the engines and props cleaned and inspected...
 
Each of the additives and oils mentioned has a different purpose. The Phillips Victory oil is an excellent oil that will limit the wear in your engine. However; engines don’t wear out when run with any of the modern aviation oils. The enemy of Lycoming engines is not wear, it is corrosion. The cam on a Lycoming sits up high in the case. This is where all of the condensation from the combustion process tends to condense after engine shut-down/cool-down. The cam is also made of a metal that easily pits when exposed to moisture. Cam-Guard is not meant to make your oil lubricate better. Cam-Guard is meant to coat the cam with a protective layer that won’t drip off as easily as hot oil. It is intended to protect the cam during periods of in-activity (a week or more). If you fly weekly without fail, then you don’t need to wase your money with it. If your plane is going to site a few weeks, Cam-Guard is the only additive mentioned that will possible help protect your cam.
 
I am an unapologetic Camguard fan-boy. I'm aware that other's in the industry have significantly closed the gap as their formulations have changed. So, maybe I've morphed into the over cautious, fear & superstition world. I also understand the the primary, intended benefit is not during operation. This was important in the past down here in hot AF Florida with younger kids and not much time or money to fly as often as I liked.

The Aircraft Specialties Lubricants (Camguard) engineers were the only company/engineers that I even encountered that would/could discuss their product from a scientific approach. It wasn't showmanship or salesmanship. If you ever get to speak with or come across an article from Edward Kollin, take advantage of it. There are plenty of articles on the web from the aforementioned. Well worth a read
 
I am an unapologetic Camguard fan-boy. I'm aware that other's in the industry have significantly closed the gap as their formulations have changed. So, maybe I've morphed into the over cautious, fear & superstition world. I also understand the the primary, intended benefit is not during operation. This was important in the past down here in hot AF Florida with younger kids and not much time or money to fly as often as I liked.

The Aircraft Specialties Lubricants (Camguard) engineers were the only company/engineers that I even encountered that would/could discuss their product from a scientific approach. It wasn't showmanship or salesmanship. If you ever get to speak with or come across an article from Edward Kollin, take advantage of it. There are plenty of articles on the web from the aforementioned. Well worth a read

Here's a good video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia-zgGr2pKg
 
Many years ago, we had a C-320 Skynight. We have always run Mobil 1 synthetic in our vehicles with excellent results, so we were excited to try the new Mobil AV 1 for aircraft...

It didn't end well. Shutting down the engines after the first long XC, both props feathered, which was not normal. Checking the oil revealed it had turned into, for lack of a better description, what you would find in a baby's diaper.

Mobil ended up paying to have the engines and props cleaned and inspected...

Yeah, I remember that period, and the venture into using synthetic aviation oil. I believe Shell had some as well.

If I recall correctly, it was removed from the market mostly a result of the synthetic lacking the ability to absorb and maintain the lead combustion products in solution, which resulted in the gooey mess you alluded to.

Once we get to fully unleaded fuel, I'm fairly sure that manufacturers will come back to market with synthetic offerings, mainly due to the long life lubrication benefits. I'm just imagining the seal leaks...
 
The cam is also made of a metal that easily pits when exposed to moisture. Cam-Guard is not meant to make your oil lubricate better. \.

From my research, it is the base of the lifters that get the corrosion. Once they begin to pit and spall, it is that which causes the cam to wear. When I built the 540, the parts guys recommend the diamond coated lifter bodies. They swear that ends the cam/lifter corrosion problems in Lyc's. Time will tell if that is true or not. Only downside other than cost was that they cannot be re-ground like regular lifter bodies. They were only twice the cost of re-ground bodies, so seemed like a no brainer during the overhaul.

Larry
 
Last edited:
Each of the additives and oils mentioned has a different purpose. The Phillips Victory oil is an excellent oil that will limit the wear in your engine. However; engines don’t wear out when run with any of the modern aviation oils. The enemy of Lycoming engines is not wear, it is corrosion. The cam on a Lycoming sits up high in the case. This is where all of the condensation from the combustion process tends to condense after engine shut-down/cool-down. The cam is also made of a metal that easily pits when exposed to moisture. Cam-Guard is not meant to make your oil lubricate better. Cam-Guard is meant to coat the cam with a protective layer that won’t drip off as easily as hot oil. It is intended to protect the cam during periods of in-activity (a week or more). If you fly weekly without fail, then you don’t need to wase your money with it. If your plane is going to site a few weeks, Cam-Guard is the only additive mentioned that will possible help protect your cam.

For this reason, I use Phillips Victory plus Camguard for both the mechanical wear and corrosion preventative additives. Plus I add MMO to the fuel every few fills.
 
For this reason, I use Phillips Victory plus Camguard for both the mechanical wear and corrosion preventative additives. Plus I add MMO to the fuel every few fills.

Same minus the MMO in the fuel. Can someone enlighten me on the use of MMO in fuel?
 
Same minus the MMO in the fuel. Can someone enlighten me on the use of MMO in fuel?

Marvel Mystery Oil. I used it once based on a DAR's recommendation as a way to diagnose whether I needed my exhaust valves reemed to address morning sickness concerns. He felt that if the addition of MMO improved the morning sickness, the exhaust valves could use some attention.
 
Last edited:
Vlad uses MMO and he got 5000 + hours out of his engine. Im sure that isnt the only reason but maybe it helped? At most it doesnt help but the cost is small so I use it now.
 
Vlad uses MMO and he got 5000 + hours out of his engine. Im sure that isnt the only reason but maybe it helped? At most it doesnt help but the cost is small so I use it now.

I believe Vlad flies most every day. That's a big factor.

Corrosion from non-operation is the biggest enemy.
 
Old thread
But, fly often and change the oil often, Cause the engine likes oil that still works like oil should.
And use aviation designed oil.
Art
 
Back
Top