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Sioux 2X or 3X Rivet Gun?

aeropunk

Active Member
Got a 2X Rivet Gun. Do I Need the 3X?

Hi all! The ball is rolling and I'm acquiring tools to begin the Big Project. I recently took advantage of the Brown Tool half-price sale on refurbished Sioux drills and rivet guns. They both arrived today and look like they're in great shape considering they're refurbs. It seems clear that Sioux builds a great product.

Here's the problem:

I ordered the Sioux 3X rivet gun (Model 270A), but received the Sioux 2X gun (Model 270A-2), even though the invoice clearly reads 3X. I'm sure I can send the 2X back, but of course the 3X refurbs are now sold out. I've gotten a sweet deal here, and Brown seems like a great company, but as I understand it, Van's recommends the 3X gun if you're only going to get one gun.

So, do I need the 3X gun, or will the 2X suffice? Should I send the 2X back or just suck it up? I suppose I could exchange it for a new gun, but the price was so great on this one it's hard to give up!

Any thoughts?
 
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2X vs #x

With limited experience in riveting, a 2X will handle anything on an RV. In fact it may be preferable since it will probably be easier to control on the 3/32rivets since the blows won't be so strong and you can modulate the riveting better. JMHO...Good luck and safe flying.
Randy
 
both are nice to have

I have found that the added power of the 3X gun is essential in some spots. The 2X gun works better for me for 3/32 rivets in thin material (like skins), beats faster, not as hard, but doesn't work for 1/8 rivets in thick material, where a 3X, slower, harder beats, sets the rivet faster and without work hardening. For example, the 1/8 rivets in the leading edge to spar assemply, and in the tank to tank attach bracket come to mind where a 3X gun (on the RV-6) works well.
So, I have a very nice Sioux 3X, and an (also) very nice but less expensive 2X Avery clone, use both. The 3X certainly will work on the 3/32 rivets in thin materials, but I find the 2X is easier to control where not a lot of force is required.
Bill Brooks,
Ottawa, Canada
RV-6A finish kit
 
I agree with Bill, if I had to have only one it would be a 3x. If / when I build again, I will buy a 2x gun so I have both.
 
Get Both

As a beginning riveter (way back when) I found the -3 gun more difficult to control with 3/32 rivets in skin. So got the -2 Sioux...what a dream!
Having both is very nice. Now, many years later, I could make do with the -3 only. What Bill said about the -3 is true, especially for the thicker material.

Rolf
RV6 N9EY
 
I have both the 2x and the 3x rivet gun. I find myself reaching for the 3x gun about 90% of the time. With the harder hit, it is easier for me to control the rivet by going slower. 3/32 rivets are bucked by about 3 slaps of the gun. The one I have is not a souix gun, but i feel with a 3x and a smooth trigger you can use this gun for anything on the RV.

As for the situation with Brown tool. Give them a call. Sense you have it on your invoice it is a simple mix up on their end. If they do not have anymore refurbished guns left they may give you a new one at the refurbished price. As long as they don't have a statement on their site that says they reserve the right to substatue if they run out. They are a really good bunch of people and I'm sure they will help you out in any way possible.
 
3X Rivet Gun On Its Way...

Brian,

I just happened to catch this post and I am sorry to see that we shipped you the incorrect rivet gun. I will get the model 270A (3X) gun out to you today and issue a call tag for UPS to pick up the 2X gun that was shipped in error. Not sure what happened other than the humans in my shipping department got involved! (In all honesty, the guys in our shipping department do great work and they get things right 99.9999% of the time. I would go yell and rap someone on the head, but since it has been close to 100 degrees in the warehouse for most of the summer, I think I will gently remind them to pay attention to the details.)

Sorry for the hassle! I will call to confirm that you have seen this.

Michael Brown
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
1-800-587-3883
www.browntool.com
Michael "AT" BrownTool.com
 
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Without hesitation, I'd opt for a 3x. I don't know about your kit but mine had several long AD4 (-9?) rivets to install through the forward fuselage skin, longeron and firewall gussets. No way could a 2x rivet gun even turned full up and hammering away for too long, handle those rivets. In fact, I used my 4x on those particular fasteners because doing so required less blows to adequately form the shop heads, thus reducing the chances of causing a dent in the skins even though a 3x gun would have sufficed.
 
3X for me...

I was thinking the same thing as Rick before I read his post. I can't imagine using a 2X on some of the long -4s in the fuse (-7).
 
I use a 3X exclusively. I don't own anything else. Maybe some day I'll try a 2X, but until then, I'll continue to be dumb and happy. And, thanks Michael for piping up here. My money goes to those with something to say in this circle.
 
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I just happened to catch this post and I am sorry to see that we shipped you the incorrect rivet gun. I will get the model 270A (3X) gun out to you today and issue a call tag for UPS to pick up the 2X gun that was shipped in error.

Wow! That was sudden and unexpected! Thanks everyone for your input and thanks Michael for your generous offer. I will certainly take you up on it!

Sorry for the hassle! I will call to confirm that you have seen this.

Believe me, it was no hassle at all -- mistakes happen! The only trouble was deciding whether or not to keep the 2X gun -- it's hard to give up something that cool when you're holding it in your hot little hands!

I certainly appreciate Brown Tool's great customer service, unbeatable prices and awesome products. This is going to be a fun journey!

Thanks again everybody.
 
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Brain, you might consider keeping the Sioux 2X and purchasing a 3X. I have talked to a number of builders and it was recommended to me, to get both the 2x and 3X guns.

My wife will be my main riveting partner and a 2X will make life a bit easier on her, it is a bit easier to handle with the 3/32" rivets. I bought a new Sioux 3X gun during Brown Tool's recent "deal" and after talking to my wife, purchased the refurbished 2X. I am also expecting the 2 refurbished Sioux 1412 drill motors I ordered anyday now. Having two rivet guns and two drill motors will make building easier for me. The 2X gun arrived today and looks pratically new. Brown Tool is a great company to do business with and will get more of my business.

Brian you are building a $65,000 + airplane. If you can afford that, I don't think another rivet gun, which makes the build easier for you, will break the piggy bank. Just something to consider. YMMV.
 
Use the 3X and just turn down the air pressure for 3/32 rivets--I use about 30 psi for 3/32 rivets and about 40 for 1/8", but I have an Ingersoll Rand gun and what folks say is equal to a 3X is more like a 3 1/2X. I like having a gun that hits slowly because I think it gives me better control.

One tip, regardless of the gun: For me on 470 rivets, I had trouble keeping the rivet set on the rivet head with a 5 1/2" rivet set and ended up with smiles that I frowned at. Yes, I pressed hard on the rivet. Got a long rivet set, about 10 1/2" and it works well. I think the greater mass keeps it from bouncing off the rivet head.
 
I dont use my 2x

I have both a 2x and a 3x and dont even use the 2x. Like others have said, I just turn down the pressure on the 3x and achieve great results.

If you want a 2x I'll sell you mine.
 
One tip, regardless of the gun: For me on 470 rivets, I had trouble keeping the rivet set on the rivet head with a 5 1/2" rivet set and ended up with smiles that I frowned at. Yes, I pressed hard on the rivet. Got a long rivet set, about 10 1/2" and it works well. I think the greater mass keeps it from bouncing off the rivet head.

One thing that would help you out with the shorter rivet sets. If you are holding the gun solid against the rivet. A piece of fuel tank tape (almost like duct tape but is green in color) stuck to the end of the rivet set will act as a cushion and prevent the smiley effect. The tape will wear out after a certain number of rivets and you must change out the piece of tape. On Brown tools website they make a rubber (I'm not sure of the material) rivet set protector which accomplishes the same thing. The tape is just a cheaper way to do it. I use this method all the time for my significant other who is still learning to rivet. You would be surprised at how much it keeps from putting a smiley face on the rivet head. I can post pictures and also get you a part number for the tape if it sounds like something that would help. I am not sure of the part number as Eagle Fuel Cells sends an entire roll when you purchase a fuel bladder from them. I have done enough fuel bladders in the past years from Cessna 340's up through King Air's that I have about 6 rolls of the stuff and if you want one I can probably dig one up and send ya for free if it is something that you would like to try. Let me know if I can help.
 
Let's get this fight started again...

To figure out which I'll buy in Sioux and which I'll buy as a Taylor, riddle me this:

Let's say you owned both a 2x and a 3x of the same manufacturer. You are equally proficient with both. The majority of an RV-8 would be bucked with which gun (based on rivet size)? Or, is there too much preference involved to answer that question?

I did the EAA Sheetmetal class, which has 3x guns. The class was my first time bucking rivets, and I felt pretty comfortable with a 3x. Never used or held a 2x.
 
I have a 2X and a 3X. I use the 2X on the many -3 rivets and the 3X on the few -4 rivets. Mine aren't Sioux since my Sioux gun died early on. My 2X is an ACAT one from The Yard Store and it's very good.

If I could only have one gun, it would be a 3X, but I'd be needing to watch the air pressure closely. For -3 rivets it would take less pressure than any of my other air tools. As it is, I keep one air line on about 40 psi and both the 2X, the 3X guns and the two of the air drills are happy there.

The pneumatic squeezer and a couple other tools prefer 90-95 psi so that's the other air line.

Dave
 
I have both and prefer the 3x because it is easier for me to control. 2x hits faster and lighter and I don’t like it. Used 3x on most all of my RV-8.
 
I have both and prefer the 3x because it is easier for me to control. 2x hits faster and lighter and I don’t like it. Used 3x on most all of my RV-8.

I agree. I love my yardstore (or is it ATS) 3X gun. I have an older 2x, and I don't like it. Maybe I'll try somebody's newer 2x, but I prefer the 3x. I actually prefer the gun and tungsten bucking bar to the squeezer in most places! I keep the air at 90, and limit the air with one of those needle valve knobs on the inlet
 
i know this post is older but thought id chime in for others searching.

I invested in both a 2x and 3x gun. I use the 2x gun wherever i can. all the 3/32 stuff. its awesome. brand new sioux. the 3x is a second hand sioux...for larger stuff. the 2x gun is definitely better on the 3/32 rivets as have tried both and the 2x doesn't walk with the correct pressure (40 psi) and does no damage although im sure it would if you are not careful. I think having both is awesome....only afford one gun obviously you need a 3x....can afford two?...get a 2x and a 3x. Yard store often sells second hand ones like my 3x sioux. because it is used the teasing trigger is no where near as nice as my new 2x sioux but it smashes 1/8" rivets easily on 40 psi.
 
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