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  #1  
Old 12-01-2022, 01:26 PM
lampwins lampwins is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 19
Default John's RV-10

Hi,

I am a first-time builder in Charleston, SC starting on an RV-10.

My empennage kit came a little earlier than expected but I have it all inventoried and I will be continuing to work on practice kits until I get some time with my tech advisor over the next week or two.

Feeling very overwhelmed but extremely excited! So many decisions and planning coming up that haven't really sunk in yet.

One thing that I have been trying to research a bit lately and is not quite clicking yet, is how the traditional build workflow is going to be altered, given the fact that this is a new kit that comes with final-sized holes. Does this mean I get to skip the initial assembly and match drilling of those parts? If anyone could point me in the right direction here I would greatly appreciate it!
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1978 Cessna 172N
RV-10 Emp kit in progress, winds due in April
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2022, 01:36 PM
Carl Froehlich's Avatar
Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 4,029
Default

Yes, almost all the new RV-10 kits are final size holes. But:
- Check with a rivet to make sure. A very small number of parts (in at least my kits) are not final size.
- The most frustrating issue you will face are the instructions. They have not been updated to reflect the final size hole parts. So you get to read, then figure out what steps you can and cannot skip, then create your own build sequence. Vanís told me revisions the instructions are way down on their priority list.

This is my fourth build and second RV-10. This instruction issue is, on the surface, not a big deal but it is easy to screw up by jumping over all the step to assemble, drill, disassemble and debur. Some of these steps have other stuff that you will not want to miss.

You do get to skip the mind numbing debur process. Just a light scuff with a Scotch Brite pad and good to go.

Carl
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2022, 05:57 PM
rockitdoc's Avatar
rockitdoc rockitdoc is offline
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 814
Default Second..

What Carl said.
For me, reading the instructions eleventy seven times helps a lot, both for figuring out what in the world is going on, but also to get the sequence correct. Nothing worse than undoing stuff you already did. At least for me.

BTW, congratulations! I started this project two years ago+ with the goal to fly the thing, and I will, but now, the building process is just as satisfying. Maybe more. Ask me again after my first solo.

My -14A had lots of match drilling to do. Also, lots of deburring. All pretty easy, relatively.
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Begun 07-23-20
Emp Completed 11-12-20
Slo Fuse Completed 3-2-21
QB Wings 99% Complete 7-30-22
Wiring and Avionics 85%
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Last edited by rockitdoc : 12-01-2022 at 06:01 PM.
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  #4  
Old 12-03-2022, 03:29 AM
Jonnyb's Avatar
Jonnyb Jonnyb is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lampwins View Post

Feeling very overwhelmed but extremely excited! So many decisions and planning coming up that haven't really sunk in yet.
As a friend put it to me: building a plane is like eating an elephant, one bit at a time.
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  #5  
Old 12-03-2022, 01:03 PM
abaden abaden is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 55
Default

My experience with the 10 (both empennage and fuse kits delivered 2021) has been that most holes are final sized, but enough are not to require fitting everything together once, dis-assembling for dimple and deburr (and prime), then reassemble and rivet. It certainly saves a lot of time on bigger parts like skins. I keep a bunch of loose rivets handy and check before final drilling when I suspect the holes are final sized (or there are a lot of holes to drill). Really nice to skip those steps!

Oh, and anecdotally everything above #30 seems like it needs to be final drilled. I would be curious to hear other people’s experience here.

I still find the air drill to be incredibly useful, particularly when you’re match drilling skins into the longerons (you fabricate those out of AA6 angle, so no final sized holes there!)
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Last edited by abaden : 12-03-2022 at 01:20 PM.
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  #6  
Old 12-03-2022, 01:18 PM
Dozer Dozer is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Naples, FL
Posts: 29
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Several things!

1) You will probably can skip 50-70% of all STEPs, because all holes are final sized. You can skip all preassembling (what I did. It saves much time)
2) Download all plans in PDFs. Then, Open a file. Search Cntr <F> for words "dimple, countersink, rivet". Find them and highlight them in your paper book. This will help you do not miss anything.
3) Just debur only one side of the hole (where they punched out)
4) Don't debur hard!!! otherwise you will do countersinking. One turn is enough. You only need to make a surface flat! don't go deeper. Use a 1" scotch brite wheel to smooth sheet edges along the edges, not across! The edge makes grooves on the wheel and it helps to control it
5) Then dimple all holes, countersink all holes
6) Prime!! Akzo 2K epoxy. Use Prekote before akzo to prep a surface. Buy 3M sprayer. You will need a big air compressor, Like 15cfm Ingersoll Rand. Buy a centrifugal fan to cool the compressor head. All manufactures lie about the compressors have 100% duty cycle.! You will burn a compressor head in 2 weeks. Better buy a two head compressor.
7) before riveting do this. You will have primer's bumps around the holes, and this creates a gap between to surface at the contact. You need to make them flat! Buy 400 grid Yellow ONLY (black corrode the aluminum) sandpaper with adhesive back, cut a piece 1x1", attach to the tip of your finger and lightly sand the primer's waves around the holes of such parts, like back plates, doublers.
8) if you primed your parts, you will need to use longer rivets. Use 4.0 instead of 3.5. Don't follow the plans!! they tell you to use the length of the rivets but don't count the thickness of the primer. Especially when you have several primed parts riveted together
9) you will probably need to clean all holes after primer with a reamer! Try to use reamers only to enlarge holes. don't use drill bits. The only place where you don't need to clean holes - are dimples holes in the skin. Holes a getting bigger after dimpling

10) Use pull rivets on the nose internal rib of the rudder and horizontal stabilizer. MK-319.! Or order another set of the skin now

2) Riveting! Don't push on the rivet gun! Hold it with ZERO pressure on the skin and use second hand to hold a mushroom set to avoid dancing to the side (if you have someone to help you riveting). Never use a swivel mushroom. It will dent the skin even worse.
Start with the slowest speed of the gun. you need to set a rivet in 5 times (1.5 sec each) from the beginning. It will help you to control a gun and understand how to set up a speed/power. Then increase the speed to set a rivet in 3 times. Remember - the thicker material, thicker rivet - more powerful setting of the gun. If you set a rivet in 2 times - it's too much power. Yes. you can, but a chance to get a dent on the skin is much higher. Use only tungsten backing bar. Others are too light. Don't push on the gun! More push - bigger dent (especially on thin skin)


Quote:
Originally Posted by lampwins View Post
Hi,

I am a first-time builder in Charleston, SC starting on an RV-10.

My empennage kit came a little earlier than expected but I have it all inventoried and I will be continuing to work on practice kits until I get some time with my tech advisor over the next week or two.

Feeling very overwhelmed but extremely excited! So many decisions and planning coming up that haven't really sunk in yet.

One thing that I have been trying to research a bit lately and is not quite clicking yet, is how the traditional build workflow is going to be altered, given the fact that this is a new kit that comes with final-sized holes. Does this mean I get to skip the initial assembly and match drilling of those parts? If anyone could point me in the right direction here I would greatly appreciate it!

Last edited by Dozer : 12-03-2022 at 01:31 PM.
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  #7  
Old 12-06-2022, 03:22 PM
BrianP BrianP is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2022
Location: Winnipeg,MB
Posts: 27
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When did you put in your order? How long before arrival did you get an estimated crating date?
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  #8  
Old 12-07-2022, 01:47 AM
lampwins lampwins is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 19
Default

Wow, thanks for all of that right off the bat everyone!

I have done some spot-checking of the holes across an assortment of parts and it does seem most everything is final-sized. I will note that did not find any orange dots on any parts and I read that was being done during the transition to identify non-final-sized parts, so that seems to be in line with my understanding. That said, I will certainly be vigilant on each part and check before proceeding but at this point, I think my plan will be to assume no need for initial assembly unless I find a special case.

As for my contribution to the primer wars, I haven't fully decided yet, but will be doing something as my base (KJZI) literally sits on an intercoastal waterway. Weight and effort are top of mind for me and anecdotally, I have a 172 that has been based here for a while with no problems whatsoever (just completed its annual this past week with no corrosion found). Will likely do ACF-50 on the 172 for peace of mind though at some point. But that is to say, I am leaning toward the SEM route and have a can of each of the self-etching and EZ coat variants on the way to try them on practice kits. Not at all trying to start yet another primer thread, just documenting my own thoughts.

BrianP, as for your question, here is my timeline:
  • Jul 20, 2022 - initial order and 25% deposit. They were quoting 4 months at that time I think.
  • Jul 27, 2022 - first kitstatus site notification, estimating crating Sep 29 2022 - Oct 20 2022
  • Aug 23, 2022 - kitstatus site notification, estimating crating Nov 15 2022 - Dec 20 2022
  • Oct 4, 2022 - notice from vans that crating was happening "soon" and it was time for final payment - payment processed same day
  • Oct 14, 2022 - kitstatus site notification, saying "crating window assigned" but with same Nov 15 2022 - Dec 20 2022 estimate
  • Nov 17, 2022 - shipment notification email with ODFL tracking number
  • Nov 22, 2022 - ODFL call to schedule delivery
  • Nov 29, 2022 - ODFL delivery

Hope that helps!
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1978 Cessna 172N
RV-10 Emp kit in progress, winds due in April
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  #9  
Old 12-07-2022, 11:31 AM
KatanaPilot KatanaPilot is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 931
Default Another opinion

Have you taken a Fundamentals and/or Sheet Metal class? Highly recommended and it will probably save you the cost of the class and then some.

Better yet, I suggest you go here for a Fundamentals plus two week empennage build class. Not terribly far away and youíll go home with a completed empennage. Youíll also be much further up the learning curve than you would trying to do this entirely on your own and be in a better position to recognize quality work. Itís not cheap, but you stand a much better chance of actually finishing your project. Just ask anyone who started on their own and then quit how much they were out when they sold or scrapped their partially completed kit(s).
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  #10  
Old 12-07-2022, 02:48 PM
BrianP BrianP is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2022
Location: Winnipeg,MB
Posts: 27
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lampwins View Post

BrianP, as for your question, here is my timeline:
  • Jul 20, 2022 - initial order and 25% deposit. They were quoting 4 months at that time I think.
  • Jul 27, 2022 - first kitstatus site notification, estimating crating Sep 29 2022 - Oct 20 2022
  • Aug 23, 2022 - kitstatus site notification, estimating crating Nov 15 2022 - Dec 20 2022
  • Oct 4, 2022 - notice from vans that crating was happening "soon" and it was time for final payment - payment processed same day
  • Oct 14, 2022 - kitstatus site notification, saying "crating window assigned" but with same Nov 15 2022 - Dec 20 2022 estimate
  • Nov 17, 2022 - shipment notification email with ODFL tracking number
  • Nov 22, 2022 - ODFL call to schedule delivery
  • Nov 29, 2022 - ODFL delivery

Hope that helps!
Thatís awesome. I put in my order end of September, at that time they were estimating late fall so hopefully will be a bit sooner than expected.
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