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Flap Motor Install Question

ppilotmike

Well Known Member
I am planning to use a full Garmin panel in my RV-10, although I haven't purchased any avionics yet. My question is about the RV-10's flap motor. I have installed the stock Vans flap motor. Do I need to install some sort of position sensor for the flaps in order to use the Garmin EFIS to indicate and control flap position? If so, what's the best way to do that?

I considered using the PH Aviation flap motor that has position sensing included, but by the looks of it, a retrofit would be a pain, since my tunnel is complete at this point. Could use some help from those with experience please..
 
Check with Van’s

At the Van’s seminar the first day of OSH they mentioned they had developed an improved flap motor with a built in position sensor. As I recall, Rian said something about the design being easy to install (and one might assume easy to retrofit as well).

I installed the PH flap motor on our RV-10 during the build while the fuselage was on the ground and I found it to be a big pain building the retrofit brackets and getting everything to line up properly. Nicely built flap motor but a well designed CNC set of brackets would greatly simplify the installation.

Having a position sensor built in is nice versus having to install something like the Ray Allen POS-12.

You might want to reach out to Van’s and see where they are on this new flap motor design.
 
You can use the 1.2" ray allen position sensor (I made something very similar with a linear pot). You mount it under the rear passenger cover panel and make a mounting arrangement with a lever arm held to the flap control bar with an adel clamp. You will find pics on this site.

Larry
 
At the Van’s seminar the first day of OSH they mentioned they had developed an improved flap motor with a built in position sensor. As I recall, Rian said something about the design being easy to install (and one might assume easy to retrofit as well).

FWIW I spoke with Van's and it's a different motor and installation. There are no parts available for purchase yet so the conversion requirements are unknown.

The recommendation I received was to adapt the RV-14 sensor kit.
 
Mike, I had the stock flap motor in mine and couldnt get it set up with my g3x and VPX system to stop at the degrees I wanted. I got the PH motor and it works great. Modifying to fit on my 9 wasnt much trouble. I dont think it took more than about an hour or less. Putting them side by side, you will see the difference. It was well worth it to me and it works like a champ at 10, 20, and 30 degrees.
 
I installed a Ray Allan POS 12 position sensor on the outside of my RV-10 fuselage where it is activated by the flap activation arm there. It works great as the position input to my G3X system, and is easy to install there without interference in the tunnel area.

I found the idea from VAF posting by Mike S on 7-27-2009 titled Flap Position Sensor Mounting. It works with the standard Van's flap actuator motor, without any change to that motor.

I saved the postings to a pdf file, which I can send you if you wish via email. Just send me your email address by PM through VAF and I'll send you the file.

Cheers,
 
Yes, definitely need a position sensor with the older one. Someone mentioned that Van’s announced a new one at Oshkosh. Here is a pic.

Sorry that they’re 90 degrees rotated. Frustrating that the server cant read the encoded info in the pictures
 

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FWIW, I consider the flap sensor 100% optional.

It's also difficult to get the sensor to reliably register the difference between -2 deg (reflex) and 0 deg (TO).

I find that a few sharpie marks on the flap LE and a glance out the window is a pretty lightweight and reliable system.
 
At the Van’s seminar the first day of OSH they mentioned they had developed an improved flap motor with a built in position sensor. As I recall, Rian said something about the design being easy to install (and one might assume easy to retrofit as well).

I installed the PH flap motor on our RV-10 during the build while the fuselage was on the ground and I found it to be a big pain building the retrofit brackets and getting everything to line up properly. Nicely built flap motor but a well designed CNC set of brackets would greatly simplify the installation.

Having a position sensor built in is nice versus having to install something like the Ray Allen POS-12.

You might want to reach out to Van’s and see where they are on this new flap motor design.

It took me less than a half hour to retrofit in my flying RV-10. I highly recommend Pat Hatch’s flap motor.
 
Ditto on PH flap system

The PH Flap system with built in position sensors was very straight forward and after 170 hours works perfectly. Not sure what the issue is with alignment but pretty simple to install. (VPX and Garmin, no problems) Thanks Pat !!
 
FWIW, I consider the flap sensor 100% optional.

It's also difficult to get the sensor to reliably register the difference between -2 deg (reflex) and 0 deg (TO).

I find that a few sharpie marks on the flap LE and a glance out the window is a pretty lightweight and reliable system.

The ‘glance out the window’ technique doesn’t work so well on dark nights. Nor would I recommend it for ifr.
As to the sensor sensitivity: if you use the position sensor as in the photo in the post before yours, you can position the angles to give maximum sensitivity to the first 3 (not 2) degrees. The difference between -3 and zero easily shows up on my grt display.
 
The ‘glance out the window’ technique doesn’t work so well on dark nights. Nor would I recommend it for ifr.

Let's say you're off by half a potato (one potato, two potato, three potato) on your flap deployment. Other than a knot or two here or there, how important is a precise flap setting?
 
Kyle - I dont think it is important. 0 degrees is important. I dont even use reflex, and i rarely use full flaps.
 
If your using Garmin with a POS 12, you don’t need to hassle making sure the POS 12 extends almost all the way out and in during the flap cycles. The Garmin system will program properly as long as there is reasonable movement during each programmed stop.
 
Kyle - I dont think it is important. 0 degrees is important. I dont even use reflex, and i rarely use full flaps.

A couple comments…….

I forget to set reflex more than I set them, but it does give you a 1-2kts improvement. At least in my aircraft.

I disagree about the important statement. I would have stated not important to ‘me’. For example, if I flew out of my friends 1,900’ grass strip with trees at the end, it would become very important in that situation. I use three grass strips on a regular basis, so flaps are import when I fly into those. However, at my home base, I would agree that it’s not a big deal. I have 5,000+ feet of paved runway. We all fly different types of missions, so perceived importance may change with a different point of view.
 
Here are some photos. This attachment method will result in almost full travel and very good resolution as a result.
 

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Thanks everybody, for your responses. Again, you have proven the wonderful value of the VAF community we have here.
 
I'm trying to permanently install the PH aviation flap motor and need to locate the position of it accurately after fabricating some brakes. Should I wait until the flaps are on the wings to final mount?

Does anyone have a picture of the PH aviation flap motor installed with flaps fully extended? Where does the tunnel flap horn sit in the full retract position? How close is it to the rear bulkhead in the tunnel?
 
I'm trying to permanently install the PH aviation flap motor and need to locate the position of it accurately after fabricating some brakes. Should I wait until the flaps are on the wings to final mount?

Does anyone have a picture of the PH aviation flap motor installed with flaps fully extended? Where does the tunnel flap horn sit in the full retract position? How close is it to the rear bulkhead in the tunnel?

I can’t give you a picture of the complete install yet because I’m still building. I can tell you this though that I have the PH flap motor and when I installed it all with the flap rods in place and run full travel from stop to stop, I have about 1/8 of an inch till it contacts the aft bulkhead. I reached out to Pat and he said that was normal.
I did spend an inordinate amount of time figuring out and fabrication of the bracket to install it though. Hope this helps you.

Keith
 
Thanks, that is helpful and is also what I am experiencing. About 1/8” gap from the bulkhead. Definitely way more work involved than I anticipated. Also had to shim everything up 1/4” so there was no rubbing interference with the new fabricated brackets.
 
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