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RV 10 Stock Tire Wear

Jesse23

Well Known Member
Why are the stock tires asymmetrical with that weak bulge on the outside of the tire? I have seen older threads that mention this condition described below.

I understand a little bit of camber, but when the wheel is off the ground, the camber/toe angle seems a bit much, since after 120 hrs both sides (not the tread) show cord, and needed replacement. The initial landing is taken on the outside of the tread, and there is no way to adjust suspension on the 10, except to go with symmetrical tires like the GY Flight II or Flight III. At least you can flip these.
 

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High wear

I don't know if I have seen or experienced that much wear after 120 hrs. It does appear that something is different. Camber? Toe in? Tire pressure?
Definitely worth some investigating to make sure things were assembled correctly.

I rotated my first set of stock tires from Van's at 230 hrs and then proceeded to get another couple hundred hours out of them before switching to Desser retreads.
 
Happened to me once early on with the RV-10. I found the right tire brake dragging, caused by the brake piston O ring being rolled. New O ring and new tires solved the problem.

Side note: I now carry replacement brake caliper O rings, brake pads, a master cylinder rebuild kit and an inner tube in my on board spares kit.
Carl
 
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Did you rotate the tires. Left straight across to right (and visa versa) so the inboard wear is now outboard. Best way to get longevity out of your tires. I switched mine across after the second year. I use the Dresser tire retreads and this works out well.

And yes Bob is correct. The tires needs to be removed from the rim and switched to do it. Not a big deal to do. But it will definitely balance out the tire wear.
 
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Did you rotate the tires. Left straight across to right (and visa versa) so the inboard wear is now outboard. Best way to get longevity out of your tires. I switched mine across after the second year.

This doesn’t work, because the brakes are always inboard. You have to take the tire off the rim, flip it, put it back together.
 
Did you rotate the tires. Left straight across to right (and visa versa) so the inboard wear is now outboard. Best way to get longevity out of your tires. I switched mine across after the second year.

I don’t think you can flip inside to outside on the stock asymmetrical tires. The wear was identical on each side. With the new GY II, I’ll be able to flip inside/outside, since the tire is symmetrical.
 
I’m not sure what you mean by assymetrical tires? We routinely flip tires to even the wear, though the wear in your case is quite extreme. I replaced my original tires at 500 hrs. TT.
 
I’m not sure what you mean by assymetrical tires? We routinely flip tires to even the wear, though the wear in your case is quite extreme. I replaced my original tires at 500 hrs. TT.

The profile of the tire on the outside (where the wear is in my pic) is dramatically different than the inside (brake side). Because of this difference, you can’t remove the tire, remove the brake rotor, flip tire and put the tire back on the sane side.

My Goodyear Flight II replacement tires will allow that, since the profile of the tire is the same on the outside as it is on the inside. I hope this helps. If I had a pic of looking straight at the tire from fore to aft or aft/fore, it would be clear how the profile changes creating an asymmetrical profile. Car and most ga plane tires are symmetrical.

I am puzzled as to the wear was identical on the other side. Luckily we had removed the wheel pants to add a few lbs of air when we noticed. We flew to pick up 2 new tires and felt the tire go down at the end of the runway before turning.
 
Pressure too low

I think you are simply running these tires at too low a pressure. I had more or less the same years back and running them at higher pressures almost completely solved the uneven wear. I would recommend 3.5 Bar which is 50 Psi. But it is still a good idea to rotate them on the rims during your annual.
 
I think you are simply running these tires at too low a pressure. I had more or less the same years back and running them at higher pressures almost completely solved the uneven wear. I would recommend 3.5 Bar which is 50 Psi. But it is still a good idea to rotate them on the rims during your annual.

Thanks for your input. I agree that 40 psi was too low for those tires. So, for the GY Flight II. Rated load @1950/tire = 3900 @68 psi equates on the RV 10 to:
2700 (RV 10 max)/3900 = .692
.692 x 68 psi = 47 psi

I’ll try some high speed taxi tests with 50 psi on the new tires.
 
Weight off doesn’t matter. You want to be concerned about wheel alignment when the plane is sitting on the ground. Changing tire model will not help your condition.
Looking at your picture, I’d think you have a toe in & camber problem. I don’t know RV10 gear legs, if they are solid, or if they are flanged where shims can be added to adjust toe in & camber, hope so in your case so you can do something about it.
As for tire life, you can double it simply by following previous posters suggestion. Also, maybe include tire tread inspection to your preflight check, & not let this condition ever get this bad again before doing something about it.
 
Jesse, just to clear up any confusion here, your tires were nice and symmetrical when new. It was your airplane that created that asymmetry.
 
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Tires with a rounded profile have a significantly smaller circumference at the edges than in the middle.

Put this together with some camber and low enough tire pressure for the edges to make contact with the ground, and I think you can see fast wear just taxiing around.

If the diameter in the middle is 1 inch more than at the edges, I think the edges scrub a distance of 3 inches every revolution of the wheel, i.e. slippage of over 5% for a 15" wheel. It gets worse as rubber is removed from the edge and the diameter gets smaller.
 
Why are the stock tires asymmetrical with that weak bulge on the outside of the tire? I have seen older threads that mention this condition described below.

I understand a little bit of camber, but when the wheel is off the ground, the camber/toe angle seems a bit much, since after 120 hrs both sides (not the tread) show cord, and needed replacement. The initial landing is taken on the outside of the tread, and there is no way to adjust suspension on the 10, except to go with symmetrical tires like the GY Flight II or Flight III. At least you can flip these.

Jesse - I replaced my tires during my first condition inspection on my RV10. It had about 140 hours. Definitely was NOT as extreme as yours, but I saw significant wear on mine. I have the stock setup included with the RV10 kit. Here is what mine looks like. Question for you. How much taxiing are you doing?
 

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Jesse - I replaced my tires during my first condition inspection on my RV10. It had about 140 hours. Definitely was NOT as extreme as yours, but I saw significant wear on mine. I have the stock setup included with the RV10 kit. Here is what mine looks like. Question for you. How much taxiing are you doing?

I think low tire pressure caused the premature death. We are at BKV in Brooksville, FL and not a long taxi to runways. Your pic shows the asymmetrical profile of the stock tires. Using 50 psi in the GY Flight II to start. Tire looks correct on the ground (looks like it has the correct pressure). GY shows 68 psi at 3900 lbs (1950/tire) so, 2700 (RV 10 max)/3900 (rated load) = .692
.692 x 68 = 47 psi

That is where my 50 psi comes from.
 
Jesse, just to clear up any confusion here, your tires were nice and symmetrical when new. It was your airplane that created that asymmetry.

See cderk’s pic of his stock tire. That is the asymetrical aspect of the tire profile I was referring to. The outside tire profile does not mirror the inside, like most tires do.
 
See cderk’s pic of his stock tire. That is the asymetrical aspect of the tire profile I was referring to. The outside tire profile does not mirror the inside, like most tires do.

It looks like that after use on his RV. I'm confident it was symmetrical when new.

See the photo of Air Trac tires on Aircraft Spruce's site, for example. Symmetrical tread grooves.
 
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just an observation---

from the peanut gallery----looks like to me the wheel pants are involved here. The fact that the camber or under inflation of the tire wasnt caught LONG before it ever got to the point of showing cords is due to the wheel pants being installed and no visual inspection taking place.

Landing at a high speed and having a blow out due to cording the tire could be a disaster---both financially and possibly physically.

My recommendation---for what its worth since I STILL HAVENT FINISHED MY RV---:eek::confused: would be to pull the wheel pants, do a proper inflation and check the camber. Check the axle mounting---you never know.

Tom
 
Thanks for all the great input. Definitely need to pay more attention to proper tire inflation, but such a PIA, with a straight valve stem that points directly inward to the axle. Haven’t come up with a way to inflate wo taking pants off, even with a removable insp cover.
 
Thanks for all the great input. Definitely need to pay more attention to proper tire inflation, but such a PIA, with a straight valve stem that points directly inward to the axle. Haven’t come up with a way to inflate wo taking pants off, even with a removable insp cover.

The solution is easy. Replace your tubes with those that have a ninety degree valve stem. Drill a 3/4” hole in your wheel pant that aligns with your stem. You can find a cap for the hole at just about any hardware store.
 
The solution is easy. Replace your tubes with those that have a ninety degree valve stem. Drill a 3/4” hole in your wheel pant that aligns with your stem. You can find a cap for the hole at just about any hardware store.

Thanks Bob -
Can you tell where I can find this gem 15x6.00x6 90 deg? I have not been able to procure anywhere. I have the cutout and plug in place.
 
Thanks Bob -
Can you tell where I can find this gem 15x6.00x6 90 deg? I have not been able to procure anywhere. I have the cutout and plug in place.

Desser and Spruce have them in stock from multiple manufacturers. Desser has better pricing. I’m about to pull the trigger on three new tubes and a tire for the nose wheel. Desser was about $200 less expensive than Spruce. But Spruce does some price matching.

Michelin Airstop 15-6.00 x 6 tube w/ 90 stem. 092-501-0

https://shop.desser.com/15x6.00-6-michelin-airstop-tube-097-5.00-0/ecomm-product-detail/323625/. This is a straight stem tube, not a 90. Dresser doesn’t have a 90 on their web page. Just discovered when talking to Spruce about price matching.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/michAviator2.php
 
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Desser and Spruce have them in stock from multiple manufacturers. Desser has better pricing. I’m about to pull the trigger on three new tubes and a tire for the nose wheel. Desser was about $200 less expensive than Spruce. But Spruce does some price matching.

Michelin Airstop 15-6.00 x 6 tube w/ 90 stem. 092-501-0

https://shop.desser.com/15x6.00-6-michelin-airstop-tube-097-5.00-0/ecomm-product-detail/323625/. This is a straight stem tube, not a 90. Dresser doesn’t have a 90 on their web page. Just discovered when talking to Spruce about price matching.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/michAviator2.php

Thanks again Bob - $$$ Double the price of the straight valve - unbelievable, but is the way to go moving forward. Now, I can use the access hole as planned and checking pressure will be part of every pre-flight vs just looking at the tire under 1/2” of exposed tire under wheel pants.
 
Just bought a set of retread mains from Wilkerson. $80 each free shipping. Tubes were $60 but straight stem. Haven't installed them yet though.
 
I have Wilkerson tires as well… so far so good. I called them and talked to Bill himself. Unfortunately, their manufacturing facility caught fire a few months ago. Sounds like they’re back up and running again. I will buy from them again.
 
Tyre flipping

Please may I ask for some views on whether to flip tyres. Our aeroplane is up on the saw horse at the moment as we are doing the SB for the cracked landing gear mounts.

The wheels are both off so now would be an opportunity for us to flip, however I have some concerns. Firstly, as here in the UK we operate mainly from grass the outside tyre wear does not seem as marked as on the photos shown here, the wear seems more even.

I have read somewhere that the tube grows with the tyre so I am presuming we need to split the wheels, then move both tubes and tyres onto the opposite wheels? Does that not have a certain amount of risk of damaging the tube during removal and refitting?

I am just trying to do a risk analysis, as we have only slightly uneven wear, is it safer just to leave the wheels as they are and refit rather than risk secondary problems?
 
Flip not rotate tires

Yes tubes form to the tires. The tires are flip (inside now outside) not move to the other wheel. So you split rim; pull out tube put back in after flipping so it remains on outside of rim and flip tire. What happens is the way the -10 is has a slight camber that wears the outside half of tire so by taking the tire and flipping it you now have the other less worn side to continue using. If your tires look fine in grass, leave them until the wear shows.
As for moving , removing ,replacing tube.. use talc (baby powder) on tyre before reinstalling. Many replace the tubes, I’ve gone 1k hours with same desser 90 degree tubes never been a problem with the above.
On different note
Wilkerson retreads are the real deal, my monsters where always out of balance, the Wilkerson arrived balanced and I’ve yet to feel any shimmy on the tires when landing.
 
I had similar wear at low time on the stock tires. When I changed to Desser retreads the wear has been perfectly even and very minimal compared to the rate on stock tires. I conclude the problem was tires and not camber or alignment.
 
The stock tires that came in the kit. I think they are Air Trac.
The pic shows the asymetrical profile. Slicing the tire down the middle yields 2 distinct profile curves.
 

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With a light load on the wheels the landing gear's "natural" camber will wear the outside of the tires faster. Also, this being the left main, torque from engine power on takeoff creates a rolling moment that is reacted by the outside of the left tire. Use right aileron on the takeoff roll and you'll minimize that.
 
Yes, there is wear. However, a new Air Trac tire of that style will show the same profile new, and as it wears. Look at the grooves in the prev thread pic, they are not centered. I went with a truly symetrical tire. GoodYear Flight II shown here.
 

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symmetrical

I just swapped my stock Air Trac tires rim to rim this year at my recent conditional inspection. Mine are symmetrical any difference in them is wear related. There is about 100 hours on them.

IMG_0092.jpg

I decided to install new 90deg tubes as well so I can more hopefully air them up through the wheel pant access hole I spent several hours crafting during the build. I bought the aero classic 6.00x6 leak stop tubes thinking they were compatible with 15x6.00x6. They did fit but they were quite a bit bigger. I've had 2 flights w/them and now have all sorts of new wheel shimmy where I didn't really have much before with properly air'd up tires. I did not balance the tires but I suspect the bigger tubes are bunched up in spots causing the imbalance??

IMG_0093.jpg

I really didn't want to drop the coin on the michelin airstops at $183ea. I did not buy the Desser GL-1587B because I thought the "leak stop" in the name of the 6.00x6's was more important :D. I'll be up to almost as much as the michelins to replace the oversized tubes I bought ha ha. Live and learn.

What 90 deg tubes are people using with success?
 
I just swapped my stock Air Trac tires rim to rim this year at my recent conditional inspection. Mine are symmetrical any difference in them is wear related. There is about 100 hours on them.

View attachment 17878

I decided to install new 90deg tubes as well so I can more hopefully air them up through the wheel pant access hole I spent several hours crafting during the build. I bought the aero classic 6.00x6 leak stop tubes thinking they were compatible with 15x6.00x6. They did fit but they were quite a bit bigger. I've had 2 flights w/them and now have all sorts of new wheel shimmy where I didn't really have much before with properly air'd up tires. I did not balance the tires but I suspect the bigger tubes are bunched up in spots causing the imbalance??

View attachment 17879

I really didn't want to drop the coin on the michelin airstops at $183ea. I did not buy the Desser GL-1587B because I thought the "leak stop" in the name of the 6.00x6's was more important :D. I'll be up to almost as much as the michelins to replace the oversized tubes I bought ha ha. Live and learn.

What 90 deg tubes are people using with success?

I don't know enough about tire/tube compatibility, however, if you have enough excess that the tube is folding over on itself, shimmy is the least of your problems. A blow out is pretty likely. I would call one of the tire shops to determine if that tube is compatible.

the 15-6.00X6 is a very different profile than the 6.00X6, so would be surprised if the tubes could be interchanged. The fact that your stem is not coming out straight is a good indication that the tube is not fitting properly.

I got the dresser leak stops for my 10 tires (I think they were aero classics Butyl with 90* stems). They leak a bit more than the goodyears I have on my 6, but get at least 4 months before having to add air.

Larry
 
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new tubes arrived

I ended up replacing the 6.00-6 tubes with the correct 15x6.00-6 tubes from Desser 15x6.00-6 Aero Classic Tr-87-70 *Butyl Easy Valve. The 6.00-6's are huge in comparison. I should have known better but one of the Q&A's on Aircraft Spruce said they were compatible. Going over more of a post mortem on it I did find conflicting Q&A's on spruce's site one saying yes they are compatible and one saying no they are not. Again I should have known better. At this point at least it only cost me the price of a set of tubes and the extra time to swap them. I have not flown yet to see if the wheel shimmy is gone but I suspect it will be.
 
A friend was putting Berringer wheels and brakes on his RV10. Berringer instructed him to inflate to 4 bar or 59 psi. I thought that might be a little high, but then I usually inflate my Goodyear Flight Custom III tires to about 55psi and they do quite well there. I got 250 landings out of the first set and put another set on. The casings were in good shape and I got Desser to re-cap them. When I took them off there was still a little groove left in the tires and there was very little difference in depth of the groves across the tire. I think the inboard groove was slightly shallower.
 
I had similar wear at low time on the stock tires. When I changed to Desser retreads the wear has been perfectly even and very minimal compared to the rate on stock tires. I conclude the problem was tires and not camber or alignment.

I've had the same experience. 14+ years and 1300+ hours. My Desser retreads always wear very evenly.
 
A friend was putting Berringer wheels and brakes on his RV10. Berringer instructed him to inflate to 4 bar or 59 psi. I thought that might be a little high, but then I usually inflate my Goodyear Flight Custom III tires to about 55psi and they do quite well there. I got 250 landings out of the first set and put another set on. The casings were in good shape and I got Desser to re-cap them. When I took them off there was still a little groove left in the tires and there was very little difference in depth of the groves across the tire. I think the inboard groove was slightly shallower.

I have the Goodyear Flight II, 55 psi is perfect. Since I do not have 90 degree valve stem tubes, I enlarged the hole to 2” to get a tire/pressure gauge in the space. The cover is a plastic snap in sheet metal cover. Pack of 10 for a few bucks. Check the piece behind the passenger seat, the holes in that brace are 2”. I keep the spare covers there. If your hole is too loose, and you keep losing the covers, use a few coats of clear nail polish around the hole.
 

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Hole

Hey Bill,
What did you use to cut that 2 inch hole. My wheel pants are already painted. Were yours?

Matt
 
Hey Bill,
What did you use to cut that 2 inch hole. My wheel pants are already painted. Were yours?

Matt

Took pants off, taped the area and used a dremel with small sanding drum to enlarge. Piece of cake. Just creep up to the line on your tape. Use the cap to keep checking how it snaps in. Seal the edge with clear nail polish. You can also use the nail polish to build up the diameter, if you go too far. You should not be able to spin the cover by hand. They won’t come out with that lip, unless there are loose. I used a scrap piece of fiberglass to get the fit, then traced that over the existing 1” hole.
 
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Hey Bill,
What did you use to cut that 2 inch hole. My wheel pants are already painted. Were yours?

Matt

Mine was painted as well. I probably should start a new thread, but I made 2 of these out of stainless steel for the nose wheel and no scratches or dinging the fiberglass in that areas with the tow bar. I made an inside aluminum backing plate with nut plates.
 

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I made 2 of these out of stainless steel for the nose wheel and no scratches or dinging the fiberglass in that areas with the tow bar. I made an inside aluminum backing plate with nut plates.

To each their own, but seems a bit heavy handed for my taste. I simply installed a very large rubber grommet in the wheel pant hole and it’s doing the job just fine. The other thing that really helps is to install heatshrink over the prongs of the tow bar. Just leave about a half inch extra extending beyond the tip of each prong and tuck it down inside the prongs when you apply the heat. No more dings!
 
Tire Pressure / Abnormal Wear

I had the same issue with my 10.

Chalk a line across the treads of the tire.
(Any color but black:)

Taxi the plane for a short while.
If chalk wears out on the outside edges, tile pressure is too low
If it wears on the center of the tire, Pressure too high.
It should wear evenly across,
Tire pressure ultimately depends on the average weight of the plane.
I ended up with 52 PSI in the mains,
47 on the nose wheel.
Used Nitrogen

Worked for me...
Jim

RV 10 41084 Finished 12/2012 N10KQ Sold too soon
RV 10 42231 Ordered 2021 Waiting on finish kit.....
RV 10 42723 Ordered 2023 another kit..
 
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