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Rudder gust lock ok?

Coryb

Member
I made this gust lock. I used #10-32 bolts. I made one for each side. Does anyone see a problem that i might be missing?
 

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I used a piece of stainless rod and attached a flag on the retention clip.
 

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I made this gust lock. I used #10-32 bolts. I made one for each side. Does anyone see a problem that i might be missing?

Coryb, in the spirit of being honest, I trust this is your proof of concept? It will work !
 
I suggest the lever arm from the rudder will break something, either the lock or the horn.

Here is a dirt simple way to lock the rudder, and you get practice tying your Bowline knots.
Carl

7-BE18-A8-E-E1-BE-4134-B5-F9-56-E21-C6021-AE.jpg
 
It can be, but the wind and rudder have a huge amount of mechanical advantage over that type lock. I prefer one that uses the counterbalance.

I agree with Kyle. Mechanical advantage puts a huge load on a lock in this location. That being said, the crude prototype that Coryb shows, I think, would be fine, as long as the final version doesn’t give up anything by trying to look good. That thick piece of angle looks like steel, and if the bolts are milspec #10 bolts not fully threaded, and not those cheap Chinese made Hillman bolts, fully threaded from the hardware store, then I think you have something. I imagine that the thin skinned rudder would buckle before bending a good #10 bolt that is tightly clamped.

On the other hand, that SS rod rudder lock looks like maybe 3/16” bent into a “U”. I think a strong wind might be able to turn that one into a pretzel pretty easily. I assume it was a straight piece at one time, and it was bent to that shape. How much mechanical advantage did that take? It might be a clue as to the resistance to bending on that straight section between the two 90* bends. Looks like the weak point in that design. My opinion only. I hope it works for you.

I haven’t decided yet what to do about a rudder lock on my RV6 build. It doesn’t have a counterbalanced rudder, so I can’t use that (taildragger, so I can reach the top of the rudder). On my RV4 (previous) I made a similar rudder lock at the bottom near the rod bearing hinge. Our resident GE engineer (Steve Melton) shuddered when he saw what I had done. He was pretty sure it would fail under load. It never really got tested while I had it, unless you consider those storms we had at Oshkosh last summer. My tent collapsed, but my rudder didn’t.
 
I suggest the lever arm from the rudder will break something, either the lock or the horn.

Here is a dirt simple way to lock the rudder, and you get practice tying your Bowline knots.
Carl

7-BE18-A8-E-E1-BE-4134-B5-F9-56-E21-C6021-AE.jpg

I like it. I assume it is tied off to the elevator counterbalance locks?
 
I like it. I assume it is tied off to the elevator counterbalance locks?

No. 1/8” or so line is looped around the elevator rod end bearing. This is where you use a bowline knot so you can untie it. Use the seatbelt to hold the elevators up (need to lock them as well) and the line does not touch the elevators.

Carl
 
I made this gust lock. I used #10-32 bolts. I made one for each side. Does anyone see a problem that i might be missing?

Honestly, Cory, I have seen several of this type fail and results in considerable damage at OSH . . . twice. I have a counterweight type, but it is a tail dragger. The rope-to-the-TE is structurally sound for the high winds when it really counts.

What you have is fine for fuel/coffee stop in light winds, not for 25kt gusty, sorry.
 
Honestly, Cory, I have seen several of this type fail and results in considerable damage at OSH . . . twice. I have a counterweight type, but it is a tail dragger. The rope-to-the-TE is structurally sound for the high winds when it really counts.

What you have is fine for fuel/coffee stop in light winds, not for 25kt gusty, sorry.

That's why I asked. I want to get an opinion from people with experience.
thanks.
 
I made this gust lock. I used #10-32 bolts. I made one for each side. Does anyone see a problem that i might be missing?

I know many use this style rudder gust lock. However, I prefer the styles that can be set or removed from within the cabin. On a windy day, you still take a chance of damage from the brief time between installation/removal and getting in/out of the plane.
 
I use this...never had a problem, even in some really nasty winds tied down in Vegas a time or two.

https://antisplataero.com/products/ultimate-gust-lock

It's a bit fiddly to get installed, but works very well (and looks better than any of the cobbled-together similar-style gust locks I've seen out there...passengers notice things that look "homemade" vs. high-quality production).
 
Gust lock

Here is some experience:
I used the angle + screws rudder lock + a bungee cord to secure the rest of the moving parts. In Prescott AZ we parked at the fbo and went off merrily to Sedona. We got a phone message as we were about to go hiking; a 50 mph wind from the rear direction had broken the gust lock and banged the rudder back and forth to break the stops and then tear 6” gashes in the rudder where it hit the elevator.
The door of a 182 was also damaged. The fbo rerivited

the stops and we patched the tears with metallic tape to get home. We now have an anti-splat lock but always check wind direction also.

The rudder is a very large sail.
 
Ditto on the Anti-splat - great option for rudder & elevator locks

Many cross country trips. Anti splat works well with zero chance of missing it on a pre-flight inspection.
 
I use this...never had a problem, even in some really nasty winds tied down in Vegas a time or two.

https://antisplataero.com/products/ultimate-gust-lock

It's a bit fiddly to get installed, but works very well (and looks better than any of the cobbled-together similar-style gust locks I've seen out there...passengers notice things that look "homemade" vs. high-quality production).

A bit fiddly is right - happy to get any hints about how to make this work easier. I tried drilling another hole to make it install easier, but that didn't solve the problem. It just feels too tight, and when I come back to remove it, it feels jammed up. I've watched Allan's videos, and am doing it the way he says. Perhaps it's because I have an -8.

Once installed, it's awesome, for sure.

Oh, another problem is I always remember to install it after I've already installed the canopy cover! :eek:
 
An observation of CoryB and Skid's pics

I see most of these post relate to "A" models since the rudders are pretty much free flopping due to lack of T/W cables and springs. I have a -4 that I built, and what I noticed about CoryB's and Skid's pictures have me wondering..The stops on the longerons appear to me to be "up-side-down" and when they strike the rudder bell crank arm, they are hitting the vertical leg at the angled cut, rather than the horizontal leg which transmits impact much better. On my -4, the stop aligns with the horizontal flange right next to the cable clevis. I can see how the as pictured stops would inflict damage in strong gusts. Is this the way all "A" models have their stops? I don't have a picture of mine on hand.
 
I see most of these post relate to "A" models since the rudders are pretty much free flopping due to lack of T/W cables and springs. I have a -4 that I built, and what I noticed about CoryB's and Skid's pictures have me wondering..The stops on the longerons appear to me to be "up-side-down" and when they strike the rudder bell crank arm, they are hitting the vertical leg at the angled cut, rather than the horizontal leg which transmits impact much better. On my -4, the stop aligns with the horizontal flange right next to the cable clevis. I can see how the as pictured stops would inflict damage in strong gusts. Is this the way all "A" models have their stops? I don't have a picture of mine on hand.

I think in the case of my picture it is the angle the picture was shot. My rudder horn hits the stops at the horizontal part of the horn.
 
I don't like anything that secures the rudder anywhere close to the hinge line. A gust of wind will have SO MUCH leverage and IMO possibly damaging the rudder, (and even worse... perhaps in an unnoticeable way). I know that's a stretch but it's my thoughts. I do like Carls solution in post 7. Much better and and eliminates my entire argument against anything close to the hinge line.

I posted a video regarding my control locks recently. If you go to 3:45 you'll see my rudder lock. Away from the hinge line so any winds loses a lot of leverage. I still like Carls.... I'm considering making a change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y-mKkf_WdM
 
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https://photos.app.goo.gl/7C1hroWpTYhDGLX69

I was using a bent piece of 1/8" rod similar to post #3. If you look closely at the attached pic above, you can see the damaged caused to the tailcone when one leg came out during a storm at OSH several years ago.
I recently built the yellow item using 1/4" pins pressed into a piece of 1/4" flat stock. I'll see how it works in field very soon.
 
I don't like anything that secures the rudder anywhere close to the hinge line. A gust of wind will have SO MUCH leverage and IMO possibly damaging the rudder, (and even worse... perhaps in an unnoticeable way). I know that's a stretch but it's my thoughts. I do like Carls solution in post 7. Much better and and eliminates my entire argument against anything close to the hinge line.

I posted a video regarding my control locks recently. If you go to 3:45 you'll see my rudder lock. Away from the hinge line so any winds loses a lot of leverage. I still like Carls.... I'm considering making a change.

I'm confused about the hinge line argument. The rudder cables apply a moment to the rudder at nominally the same location as the pinned concept. Unless the wind loads on a tied aircraft are higher than flight loads, I would think the "pinned" concepts are adequate. (If the rudder is allowed to bang stop-to-stop I agree the loads will get very high.)

Similarly, the Antisplataero device reacts all loads thru the horn - again quite close to the hinge line.

Finally, I'm always concerned about damage to the trailing edges of all my control surfaces. Using one as a tiedown point would seem to have its own risks.

A very interesting discussion...
 
Rudder lock

I did the square U out of ¼ steel
It has withstood 60 MPH winds directly on the tail

Jim Frisbie
RV 9A 900hrs
 
We have a new deal to be worked out, maybe for years……. RUDDER LOCK WARS !!
I would like to hear what others have had long term success with in real experience with winds, to see what not only works, but is easy to implement.
 
I use two of these - one each side.
 

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I don't like anything that secures the rudder anywhere close to the hinge line. A gust of wind will have SO MUCH leverage and IMO possibly damaging the rudder, (and even worse... perhaps in an unnoticeable way). I know that's a stretch but it's my thoughts. I do like Carls solution in post 7. Much better and and eliminates my entire argument against anything close to the hinge line.

I posted a video regarding my control locks recently. If you go to 3:45 you'll see my rudder lock. Away from the hinge line so any winds loses a lot of leverage. I still like Carls.... I'm considering making a change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y-mKkf_WdM

I love the video. I saw your video earlier and made the same elevator and aileron locks after I saw it. thanks for sharing.
 
In response to Dean Pichon of post 24. I'm going to just think out loud here. You compare the inflight loads on the rudder as to a gusty wind side load on the rudder... these are completely different. The airflow is not from the side of the rudder during flight. Also In flight the tail of the aircraft actually moves in response to rudder inputs. Now tied outside on a ramp the gusty winds, (perhaps coming at the rudder from 90 degrees), pushing on all that surface area and gust locks only a couple inchs from the hinge line/pivot point of the rudder. Think of a load, the fulcrum and the lever. In this case the rudder is the lever with the force supplied by the wind gust. The greater the distance from the fulcrum the greater that force exerted on the forward end of the rudder. Seems to me there's no way around it, that wind gust (potentially) has lots of leverage--->damage to rudder.

Someone mentioned possible damage to the trailing edge of the rudder with Carls method. That's a point I didn't consider. However I feel it's still a better approach than anything close to the hinge line.
 
No one has mentioned the Bogert Bogie bar.
Any real world experiences?

I use the Bogart tow bar method to secure all three axes. So far, so good. But I also carry a bungee cord that hooks to the end of the horizontal stabilizer, loops over the molding for the tail light, goes to the other stabilizer end. If it’s really windy, or I’m leaving it for an extended time, I use both.
 
In response to Dean Pichon of post 24. I'm going to just think out loud here. You compare the inflight loads on the rudder as to a gusty wind side load on the rudder... these are completely different. The airflow is not from the side of the rudder during flight. Also In flight the tail of the aircraft actually moves in response to rudder inputs. Now tied outside on a ramp the gusty winds, (perhaps coming at the rudder from 90 degrees), pushing on all that surface area and gust locks only a couple inchs from the hinge line/pivot point of the rudder. Think of a load, the fulcrum and the lever. In this case the rudder is the lever with the force supplied by the wind gust. The greater the distance from the fulcrum the greater that force exerted on the forward end of the rudder. Seems to me there's no way around it, that wind gust (potentially) has lots of leverage--->damage to rudder.

...

Some good points. Just a thought exercise - do you think using the rudder pedals you could stop someone from moving the rudder from stop to stop with their hand? I have not tested this.
 
In response to Dean Pichon of post 24. I'm going to just think out loud here. You compare the inflight loads on the rudder as to a gusty wind side load on the rudder... these are completely different.

I disagree. Full rudder deflection during a slip on final is 35* of deflection plus the crab angle into a 100 MPH wind. Not the same as a wind 90* to the tail surface, but surface winds are rarely 100 MPH either. Some can do the engineering math, but I suspect they are comparable.
 
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I disagree. Full rudder deflection during a slip on final is 35* of deflection into a 100 MPH wind. Not the same as a wind 90* to the tail surface, but surface winds are rarely 100 MPH either.

You fly 100mph on final?
 
SNIP

Someone mentioned possible damage to the trailing edge of the rudder with Carls method. That's a point I didn't consider. However I feel it's still a better approach than anything close to the hinge line.

The holder on the trialing edge is made of 1/8” aluminum angle, the inside lined with rubber, on top of that some foam rubber. Place the holder at the height such that the lines get tighter if it moves up or down (in other words do this do it does not move).

20 years of using this to secure the rudder and never a problem, and never a failure.

Carl
 
Here s a rudder gust hold mechanism I built for my RV9. Uses compression springs and velcrow into fwd of the spar. Can't miss it if you plan to fly. It folds up to about 16 to 18 inches in length for storage. The triangle on the back end was possible gust lock for stick. Yes my rudder pedals have an extra plate welded to the Vans pedals to help avoid getting on the brakes.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=cUxLSm9TMUhxVXZSNUFlcVpzRGFXcWpOa244cTJB
 
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