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IFR checks

rondawes

Well Known Member
Sorry this is not Glass Cockpit per se, but this forum gets more traffic than the other avionics ones and I did not find a better place.

I'm assuming that for legal IFR in an experimental that we still have to do the transponder and pitot/static checks by an avionics shop every 24 months just like a certificated plane. True?
 
Sorry this is not Glass Cockpit per se, but this forum gets more traffic than the other avionics ones and I did not find a better place.

I'm assuming that for legal IFR in an experimental that we still have to do the transponder and pitot/static checks by an avionics shop every 24 months just like a certificated plane. True?

Yes you need the checks every 24 months. Also review CFR 91.205 for IFR equipment list requirements. Check those 2 boxes with updated GPS data base and you are good to go.
 
Since you are at TKI you might want to contact Walt at EXPaircraft services. He is a VAF advertiser located at 52F.

He specializes is RV’s and avionics.
 
That is correct.

The aircraft must also be equipped for IFR, ie an IFR certified GPS, etc...

There is no requirement for a TSO’d GPS. Just ‘navigation equipment suitable for the flight’.
And if you have a transponder, it must be checked every 24 months-for VFR, too.
 
The normal joyful IFR equipment discussion :p

Some other caveats beyond those mentioned:

We are assuming this isn't for an RV-12 type airplane, but if so, LSA's have additional restrictions for IFR flight (as in they can't at all? Can't remember the details, and apparently there is different interpretations, and matters how you are LSA (S-LSA, E-LSA, EAB (but still LSA))

Next, apparently some EAB's had operational limitations specified that limited operations in IMC, but these can be updated by your friendly DAR if that is the case. I think all past and current ops lims referred back to 91.205 anyway, and of course that is the FAR, so you that is the bare minimum needed for equipment.

Lastly, the requirements for Pitot/Static/Altimeter etc checks are actually specified in Part 43, Appendix E and F, so you kind of have to piece together the various FAR's to get a complete picture of what equipment is required, and then how to maintain it. I have heard that there is a common misperception that some of those checks don't apply to experimental, or to VFR airplanes, etc, but I don't see that to be the case, but it's certainly been hotly debated here and other places, so do what you gotta do :D

Since your at TKI, if your transponder check has expired, there was a thread here recently discussing this. Since your under the bravo, it gets complicated fast since you need it in the ring, but you can't use it legally cause it's expired, but you need it in the ring...

Walt and others in the metroplex have mobile transponder etc check services, if you are unable to (legally) fly it to them, they can come to you.
 
The normal joyful IFR equipment discussion :p

Some other caveats beyond those mentioned:

We are assuming this isn't for an RV-12 type airplane, but if so, LSA's have additional restrictions for IFR flight (as in they can't at all? Can't remember the details, and apparently there is different interpretations, and matters how you are LSA (S-LSA, E-LSA, EAB (but still LSA))

Next, apparently some EAB's had operational limitations specified that limited operations in IMC, but these can be updated by your friendly DAR if that is the case. I think all past and current ops lims referred back to 91.205 anyway, and of course that is the FAR, so you that is the bare minimum needed for equipment.

Lastly, the requirements for Pitot/Static/Altimeter etc checks are actually specified in Part 43, Appendix E and F, so you kind of have to piece together the various FAR's to get a complete picture of what equipment is required, and then how to maintain it. I have heard that there is a common misperception that some of those checks don't apply to experimental, or to VFR airplanes, etc, but I don't see that to be the case, but it's certainly been hotly debated here and other places, so do what you gotta do :D

Since your at TKI, if your transponder check has expired, there was a thread here recently discussing this. Since your under the bravo, it gets complicated fast since you need it in the ring, but you can't use it legally cause it's expired, but you need it in the ring...

Walt and others in the metroplex have mobile transponder etc check services, if you are unable to (legally) fly it to them, they can come to you.

Clarification on transponder and pitot static inspections. Part 43 appendix E & F tell you how to do it. Part 91.411 and 91.413 tell you that you have to do it.
 
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Clarification on transponder and pitot static inspections. Part 43 appendix E & F tell you how to do it. Part 91.411 and 91.413 tell you that you have to do it.

Derp, forgot about that also. You might want to consult your local aviation attorney (the guy sitting in the FBO coffee lounge, sharing his aviation knowledge with passerby's :D)

I think I have this right now:
91.205 etc -> Must have
91.411 etc -> Must do
43.E etc -> How do

For me, I fly my plane IFR, so I was more worried about verifying the equipment was accurate than compliance. I wanted to know if there were leaks in the system, how accurate my airspeed and altitude are, etc, and getting the check done verified all that for me, and the cost wasn't terrible, especially every 2 years.

At the end of the day, flying an IFR capable airplane IMC just adds that much more expense and effort (411 checks, db updates, extra radios/antennas/electronics), so you kind of are all-in once you decide you want IFR, and the 24 month checks probably aren't even the biggest cost maintaining that capability (it all adds up though).
 
There is no requirement for a TSO’d GPS. Just ‘navigation equipment suitable for the flight’.
And if you have a transponder, it must be checked every 24 months-for VFR, too.

So in the example, ie gps, you are saying that you can legally fly IFR with a VFR GPS?

I don’t think so…
 
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So in the example, ie gps, you are saying that you can legally fly IFR with a VFR GPS?

I don’t think so…

I don't think I said that. What I said was, no GPS was required at all, as long as you had the nav capability required for the flight. You know, like the old days, a VOR and maybe an ILS? There are still places where that's all you need.
 
I don't think I said that. What I said was, no GPS was required at all, as long as you had the nav capability required for the flight. You know, like the old days, a VOR and maybe an ILS? There are still places where that's all you need.

Yes, that makes sense. Less and less as they keep decommissioning vor stations but certainly true now.
 
I don't think I said that. What I said was, no GPS was required at all, as long as you had the nav capability required for the flight. You know, like the old days, a VOR and maybe an ILS? There are still places where that's all you need.

Well kinda. What you said was "There is no requirement for a TSO’d GPS" which in context is 100% correct but I can see where someone might misinterpret the comment. The clarification is if you want to use a GPS for IFR navigation in US then it has to be a TSO'd unit (C-129 non-WAAS or C-145/146 WAAS).
 
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Well kinda. What you said was "There is no requirement for a TSO’d GPS" which in context is 100% correct but I can see where someone might misinterpret the comment. The clarification is if you want to use a GPS for IFR navigation then it has to be a TSO'd unit (C129 or C-145/146).

I can't speak for the US rules, but in Canada you wouldn't need a TSO'd unit for simple IFR navigation, but, you would need one or a WAAS class 3 navigator to fly a LPV approach to minima. It least that's how I read the AIM.
 
Interesting related article today from avweb, link below:

Over the years, I made several Bonanza trips from home base in New Jersey to EAA AirVenture. Without an IFR-certified GPS, I would flight plan to hopscotch along airways from VOR to VOR supplemented with my portable Garmin GPSmap396 for situational awareness. But I always expected to stick with the airways as a prudent IFR pilot should with “/U” on the flight plan. My first fuel stop was Sandusky, Ohio, about four or five of those airway doglegs down the road.

On my first such trip, I was a little surprised when about halfway across Pennsylvania, after interacting with two or three controllers who were more relaxed than those in New York’s busy airspace, I was handed off to a new sector that was controlled by New York Center, for some reason. A bit of the big-city edginess would return—not impolite, but noticeable. The good part was he cleared me direct to Sandusky, still about 250 nautical miles away, even with the understanding that I had just a portable GPS.

I asked around about that among friends, because it was a little ambiguous as to whether that was FAR-friendly. In theory, I knew that a controller could vector a pilot to fly a given heading until receiving a VOR many miles ahead, but this guy just cleared me direct to the airport, and pretty quickly at that. The second time it happened, trying to be conversational, I asked him about it. What I got back was a pause—then in a frustrated-sounding Big Apple accent:

“Do you WANT to go direct to Sandusky … or NOT?”

“Bonanza 3473 Bravo—direct Sandusky.”

https://www.avweb.com/features/shor...lombia+DC-3+Mishap,+Wednesday,+April+13,+2022

Regards,
 
Back in the 80's flying west coast to ord - typical of LA center " what runway do you want at ord?" Followed by "cleared xxx hdg till direct faf". We were thrilled, having just a vor/adf. He knew full well that in the ensuing 1400 miles, another controller would "fix" us.

😊
 
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