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Oil hoses

pilotmansam

Active Member
My O-320 still has the data-plate and is a certified engine. I am replacing the oil hoses. This is sort of a rhetorical question, but can I legally use uncertified hoses on this engine in my RV-6?
 
It is an EXPERIMENTAL airplane. You are allowed to do anything to it that the Operating Limitations does not prohibit. The Operating Limitations are part of the Special Airworthiness Certificate. Both are required to be in the airplane to fly.
 
My O-320 still has the data-plate and is a certified engine. I am replacing the oil hoses. This is sort of a rhetorical question, but can I legally use uncertified hoses on this engine in my RV-6?

Yes! I made mine using Braided PTFE from Pegasusautoracing.com.
 
as it has been answered, yes you can use garden hose legally if you so desire. so call TS and have him send you what you need.

now, as to being a certified engine, this has been debated to death. what is a certified engine. just having a data plate does not make an engine a certificated engine.

when lycoming builds an engine it puts a data plate on it, that and the paperwork that comes with it shows that it has been built to the standards called for in the TCDS of the engine. their experimental engines also have a data plate but do not have the paperwork showing they meet the TCDS so they are experimental engines.

any changes to the engine configuration such as a different starter,or alternator that is not called out in Textron Lycoming Service Instruction No. 1154 and it no longer meets the TCDS. if anybody that does not hold an A&P certificate does maintenance on it and signs the log it no longer is considered a certified engine.

my point is, that as a IA if you came to me an said, this guy is selling his E2D off of his RV and I want to buy it and hang in on my PA28, he has kept it certified. the only way I really can do that is with a full conformity inspection of the engine as there is no other way to ensure that the engine has been maintained IAW the FARS. I applaud you for wanting to maintain your engine to the highest standards, but the reality is once an engine gets hung on a EAB the engine is experimental until it gets a full conformity inspection, which really only gets done at overhaul time.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB
 
Thank you all for the quick responses. And, that gives me a pretty complete understanding of the issue. I work with an A&P/IA who is also employed by the local FSDO. He and I have a very good working relationship and I never want to put him into an uncomfortable position.
 
Thank you all for the quick responses. And, that gives me a pretty complete understanding of the issue. I work with an A&P/IA who is also employed by the local FSDO. He and I have a very good working relationship and I never want to put him into an uncomfortable position.

The A&P/IA who I work with and have known for 30+ years doesn't understand experimentals. He is hard-wired and programmed for the certified world. Some education on what can and can't be done with experimentals is usually required.
 
My O-320 still has the data-plate and is a certified engine. I am replacing the oil hoses. This is sort of a rhetorical question, but can I legally use uncertified hoses on this engine in my RV-6?

Use top quality aircraft fire sleeved hose fabricated by a reputable aircraft hose shop. Don't cheap out here. You will also want to make sure your fittings are steel (in my opinion). A failure of the oil hose or oil fittings would be a really bad day. The engine will stop and you might have a fire. So it's irrelevant if it's experimental or certified get the best aircraft Hose & Fittings you can. Because it's experimental it's not strictly required you have a very specific part. However that's not relevant to safety.
 
FWIW I have found washing machine hose and tractor hydraulic hose used for fuel lines on certified aircraft. Needless to say they got pitched in the trash.
 
Weird parts

FWIW I have found washing machine hose and tractor hydraulic hose used for fuel lines on certified aircraft. Needless to say they got pitched in the trash.

I have no doubt. A year or so after I bought my Warrior, the alternator died. Turned out one of the terminals was incinerated, due to a host of bad wiring firewall forward. Bad techniques, wrong wire types, wrong sizes, cheap automotive stuff, everything.

It’s a jungle out there.
 
Like others have said on this thread, we've seen most all varieties of hoses on experimentals and some certified planes with WAYYYYYYYY outdated H8794 rubber assemblies. Thats one of the reasons we started to begin with.
George stated steel fittings in his opinion---and thats fine, we just happen to use Mil Spec stainless for our from -3 through -8. And for us, teflon is the way to go. Others may not agree. Ours meet the new TSO C140 spec, for working pressures and heat protection.

We have quite a few clients that still make their own, buying aircraft quality parts from Spruce and others, or Race car part suppliers like Pegasus, Earls, Russell, etc. As the builder the plumbing is up to you. Some like the 'recreation and education' of designeing their systems, and fabricating their assemblies. I commend them! But no, dont use garden hose and yes we've seen it, along with clear icemaker hose, industrial hydraulic hose, etc. Haven't seen a straw from McDonalds yet, and I hope I never do.

Use good, known parts, inspect them regularly, and you'll be fine.

Tom
 
I wanted to chime in here on the topic of building your own hoses. I built my own brake lines from Earls stainless steel material. I feel comfortable with that. They were relatively easy to put together once you get the nack of it. However, for the oil lines (fuel too) I would want to make sure that I bought fluid lines that are pressure tested after they are assembled. So I'll be buying those fluid lines from Tom. I'm sure I could make fuel and/or oil lines too and they would probably be fine, but I don't want to take that risk.

You can do a search of engine outages from loss of oil due to the oil line coming apart if you think I'm being overly conservative.
 
Thank you Ray----and yes all of our assemblies are pressure tested. During my development testing, Ive taken them 2x's the working pressure, which in most cases for our engines either 250x for fuel, (30 psi) and 93x for oil (80 psi). WAYYYYYYY more than you'll ever see, but we have to know the limits. No failures at 7500 psi, and thats the limit on the pump on my test cabinet. So the failure point is above that, but I didnt feel the need to find out. (Does sound like a muffled gunshot, and somewhat of a mess to clean up in the cabinet!)

If you are going to make your own, have a plan, and rig a test apparatus to check them. 150 psi on your air compressor is fine for a leak check, but not a proof test. AND----dont lay it on the hangar/shop floor to test it. Truck side tool boxes are ok---alittle big, but I built my first test cabinet from one. Pump was a 10,000 hydraulic jack pump with a big reservoir.
Use can use a nitrogen bottle, or an oxygen bottle with a good regulator, but SAFETY is a must.
Or you can just give us a call, and do the hard work or you!
Tom
 

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I wouldn’t recommend using oxygen for testing purposes. A little oil or anything else flammable and you could have an explosion. Probably best to use a fluid so it doesn’t compress, in the event of a rupture.
 
Hydrostatic only!!!

Tom, I suggest you edit that post and remove gaseous pressure testing with nitrogen or oxygen. There is a huge energy in a compressed gas test and a lot of people here that might try it on your comment.

I tested mine to proof pressures with oil and inside a pipe just-in-case.

Edit your post and I will delete this one.
 
Ok Per Bill----test only with non flamable fluids----I use water in my test cabinet. Have used ISO46 hydraulic fluid, Mil 5606.
DONT use any gases.

(But didn know of a guy that tried oxygen, nitrogen and even propane, because they were handy. DONT!)
Tom
 
I have a Nanchang that had a lot of those Earl's self-assembled stainless braided hoses for oil and fuel fluids. One of the fuel lines looked great from the outside but when filled leaked like a colander. The lining material was so affected by avgas that it was totally broken down and the hose was beyond a soaker hose. It looked so pretty when dry I had to destroy it in fear some dumpster diver might find it and try to use it.

Here's another complete endorsement to go with a set of TS Flightlines hoses and never look back.
 
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