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I got ramp checked

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Flew from Marysville OH to Savannah GA on Friday IFR and stopped at Lauren County (KLUX) SC for the cheap fuel based on recommendations I saw here on VAF. Landed about 9:30 AM and all was quiet. There appeared to be no one around. The airport manager had left a sign indicating he was away running errands. I stated fueling up at the self-serve pump and out of nowhere a man appeared and stated he was with the FAA and wanted to see my paper work. Specifically, my pilot certificate, repairman certificate, medical certificate, airworthiness certificate and operating limitations.

He was cordial and all my paperwork was in order. He said he was passing through. He told me about some violations he had seen. Such as an experimental owner who never bothered to get his repairman certificate but was doing annuals on his plane.

It took about five minutes. I'm embarrassed to say I forgot to ask him for his credentials. I didn't write down his name and don't remember it.

Afterwards I started wondering. My wife and I make the trip to Savannah fairly often, but I've tried some different airports for the fuel stop. We were IFR as usual so were positively identified. There were no other airplanes around. Possible check for drug runners/terrorists? Who knows.

I've never been ramp checked before and don't know anyone who has. But be aware--it CAN happen.

LeRoy Johnston RV-6A Esperanza 855 hours
 
I wasn't aware that we needed to carry our Repairman's Certificate with us. I keep mine in the hangar with my aircraft log books. Does anybody know if this is really required to be carried?
 
I can see checking for everything but the repairman cert ... ?!?!?!?! That is not something that is needed to be legal and flying. Having your pilots license, Air worthiness, medical, heck even if he asked for a weight and balance but repairman cert? IT IS NOT required. The only way this would be an issue is if you don't have one and you signed your log book during your annual/conditional inspection. Which means he would have to see your log books ... which do not have to be in the airplane during flight.... so no, it's not required.

Very strange . . . I'm glad it wasn't me. It would not have been that uneventful.
 
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This is an old question/answer but "how would an FAA 'inspector' know that an owner of an experimental aircraft had been doing the condition inspection without a repairman's certificate?"

I was of the understanding that the Pilot is not required to carry their personal logbook nor the maintenance records for the airplane *in* the airplane - although those documents may need to be produced at a later date. The Pilot is supposed to have current charts for their flight, the aircraft airworthiness certificate, registration, operating limitations, (radio license if operating outside the USA), and W&B.
 
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It can happen any time. I got ramp checked as a student pilot... on the one day my CFI forgot his wallet, so didn't have his cert. He managed to dodge the FAA guy. The FAA guy was nice, no hassles, but I was really wishing ALL the log books were not in the back of the plane when he asked about them. I wouldn't ever keep them there, but it was a club plane, club rules... dumb as they may be. He cut it short when the 135 operator with the King Air taxied up, I think I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Most pilots I know say they have never been checked. ::shrug::

I agree that unless he's examining maintenance logs that have your signature in them, he shouldn't need to see your repairman cert. Then again, they can ask for whatever they feel like asking for... doesn't mean you're necessarily required to produce it.
 
Show versus Surrender of MEDICAL CERTIFICATE?

I've never been ramp checked but have been a passenger in an RV-9A at the Talladega NASCAR race track when my friend, Dan, was ramp checked.

One thing I remember about the Bob Hoover fiasco, when an FAA inspector was apparently trying to make a name for himself about 20 years ago, is that Bob Hoover said he made the mistake of handing his Medical certificate to the FAA.

[Update: As is usually the case, my recollection is not supported by the facts. For those interested, I found a page posted by a lawyer that more accurately describes what happened in the Hoover case.]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression we are required to SHOW the paperwork, but we are not required to SURRENDER the paperwork to the inspector. [Another Update: See the link I posted above that explains the suggested procedure, except the FAR part that deals with Inspection of our certificates has been updated from FAR 61.3(h) to 14 CFR 61.3(l). That's an "l" as in LIMA :) .]

Here is 14 CFR 61.3(l):
"(l) Inspection of certificate. Each person who holds an airman certificate, medical certificate, authorization, or license required by this part must present it and their photo identification as described in paragraph (a)(2) of this section for inspection upon a request from:
(1) The Administrator;
(2) An authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board; or
(3) Any Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer.
(4) An authorized representative of the Transportation Security Administration."


So my understanding is I can hold the certificate(s) and let the government representative look at it (inspect it), but if I let him/her hold it, he/she may not give it back.

My friend Dan allowed the inspector to hold his Pilot certificate, Class III Medical, Airworthiness Certificate and Aircraft Registration, etc., but he did give them back to him. And I don't think there was any discussion of his Repairman's Certificate not being with him.
 
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As per the FARs:

Sec. 65.105 ? Display of certificate.

Each person who holds a repairman certificate shall keep it within the immediate area where he normally exercises the privileges of the certificate and shall present it for inspection upon the request of the Administrator or an authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board, or of any Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer.



As stated, it could be kept in the hangar where work is normally done.
 
Documents

No medical required for Light Sport and Glider.
Ops limits can be placards.
No requirement to carry pilot logbook, therefore no requirement to carry proof of BFR. The only requirement is to produce proof of BFR or equivalent at a later date if required by FAA.
 
No medical required for Light Sport and Glider.
Ops limits can be placards.
No requirement to carry pilot logbook, therefore no requirement to carry proof of BFR. The only requirement is to produce proof of BFR or equivalent at a later date if required by FAA.

For experimental amateur-built, special light-sport, and experimental light-sport aircraft, the operating limitations issued with the airworthiness certificate must be on board the aircraft during all operations.
This is stated both within the operating limitations and on the airworthiness certificate.
 
On that note, I just checked and can not locate my repaire certificate but have my number. I wonder if I can get another one issued?

Does any one know what would be the process?
 
"Surrendering" your certificate is a whole different thing than letting an inspector hold it (61.27 Voluntary Surrender....). I've had lots of ramp checks and never worried about the inspector keeping my certificate. If you are concerned just state that "I am not surrendering my certificate to you" as you hand it over.
 
On that note, I just checked and can not locate my repaire certificate but have my number. I wonder if I can get another one issued?

Does any one know what would be the process?

Any FSDO should be able to issue you a replacement certificate. I believe there is a $2 charge. Normally, all your FAA certificates will carry the same number.
 
Any FSDO should be able to issue you a replacement certificate. I believe there is a $2 charge. Normally, all your FAA certificates will carry the same number.

My pilot license and cfi certificate have the same number (+cfi on that one) but my repairman certificate is completely different.
 
Normally the only reason that the numbers would be different is if one of them has you SS number.

When I had them remove my SS number from my A&P and Instructor certificates, they came back with the same number as my pilot certificate.

Sometimes it depends on who opens your request. The FAA is consistent only in inconsistency.
 
Strangely enough, my request (at the urging of the FISDO inspector) to get rid of my SSN was handled at CFI renewal, by the OAK FISDO. Years later my repairman certificate application was also handled by OAK FISDO. I sure wish they were the same, I can't remember the repairman number.

As already stated, information about replacement certificates is on line at
www.faa.gov/mechanics/records/
Links there will take you to paper or on-line applications for replacements.

Maybe A&Ps are handled differently than limited repairmans?
Anyone else have the same number on their pilot license and repairman certificates?
 
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When I used to get a line check at the South's Official air line, (hence my call sign), the inspector always had to see our license and medical. I would always leave them on the console between the seats and Mr. Inspector would invariably tell me I could put them away.

My response was, "one of us is going to walk out of the cockpit with them, so I might as well leave them there until we see who". That always broke the tension and we had a great check ride.

It's their ballpark so I always played their game. Never had a problem with any FAA inspector. Most are just doing their job. It's too bad they all don't play by the same rules.
 
There seems to be some confusion about the operating limitations requirement for our experimental aircraft.

The first paragraph of the operating limitations issued with the airworthiness certificate states; "These operating limitations are a part of FAA form 8130-7, and are to be carried in the aircraft at all times and be available to the pilot in command of the aircraft."

Also in block E of the 8130-7 (Special Airworthiness Certificate) is the statement; "Operating Limitations Dated xx/xx/xxxx Are a Part of This Certificate"

There should be no question on this issue.
 
I was ramp checked once. It was at Collegedale, TN while visiting my In-laws. The inspector found something too, my pink slip was in the stack of paper but not visible. He was kind enough to let me off with a warning. Then again, he was my wife's uncle.
 
"Surrendering" your certificate is a whole different thing than letting an inspector hold it (61.27 Voluntary Surrender....). I've had lots of ramp checks and never worried about the inspector keeping my certificate. If you are concerned just state that "I am not surrendering my certificate to you" as you hand it over.

I've been ramp checked once, made it though unscathed but one member of our flight who forgot to bring his wallet had to spend a few months on the ground....

I too had read to never surrender my license so I held it so the inspector could copy info from it. He chuckled and said "I would have given it back to you". I felt a little silly holding the plastic card for him but thought I was doing the right thing.

Since then I've been informed that "surrender" requires a formal request (written?) and is different as stated in the quoted post from allowing an inspector to hold your license.
 
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Surrender may mean one thing, but the person holding the license in their hand has control of it. If the ramp check person says he is keeping it, are you going to grab it out of his hand? Once you touch him, it is battery. The same for him - if he tried to grab it out of your hand, he loses in court.

It is much better to keep any license or permit in your hands if at all possible.
 
Surrender may mean one thing, but the person holding the license in their hand has control of it. If the ramp check person says he is keeping it, are you going to grab it out of his hand? Once you touch him, it is battery. The same for him - if he tried to grab it out of your hand, he loses in court.

It is much better to keep any license or permit in your hands if at all possible.

The point I was making is that as I understand this situation, it is illegal for the inspector to just "keep it". There is an official protocol for requesting surrender of a license and it most likely will not be executed on a ramp.

Maybe a VAFer who has inside FAA info can offer input about surrendering a license.
 
So back to the subject of repairman cert? I'm beginning to think this guy was just busting your chops. I've never heard that before... it would be different if you were in your hanger and were working on your plane and he walked in and asked you for your repairman cert, but ramp check? Still puzzling .:confused:
 
So back to the subject of repairman cert? I'm beginning to think this guy was just busting your chops. I've never heard that before... it would be different if you were in your hanger and were working on your plane and he walked in and asked you for your repairman cert, but ramp check? Still puzzling .:confused:

A repairman certificate is not required for maintaining (working on) an experimental amateur-Built aircraft. Only for doing the condition inspection.

If you have signed off a condition inspection, then he could rightly ask to see your repairman or mechanic certificate.
 
Ramp Check

Last Sunday at Agua Dulce Airport in SoCal a FAA inspector showed up to ramp check and monitor a DC-3 being flown in for a movie shoot on Monday. While he was waiting he decided to ramp check a few planes that arrived. He was professional, business-like, serious about what he intended to do. He asked each pilot for pilot certificate and medical and visually inspected each one and took down some notes. He asked each pilot if they had the registration and airworthiness in the aircraft but did not ask them to produce it. Only one pilot had a minor problem.

He had reduced the size of his medical to pilot certificate size. The inspector said that was not OK and said it was considered "defacing" the document. He also said it could not be laminated. He said he did not intend to take any enforcement action, just a "word to the wise." The pilot intended on filing a NASA report just in case. I had another inspector some years ago say it was OK to laminate the medical to protect it.

Anybody know for sure about shrinking and laminating, or does it depend on who you ask in the FAA??

The FAA inspector in my opinion was doing what he is supposed to do on occasion--check pilot's credentials...don't see any problem with that.
 
Anybody know for sure about shrinking and laminating, or does it depend on who you ask in the FAA??

Don't know for 100% because as you noted I have heard both answers given from a Fed. While you might not find a prohibition in the regulations there is often more guidance in 8900 that joe average pilot never reads.
 
The Pilot is supposed to have current charts for their flight, the aircraft airworthiness certificate, registration, operating limitations, (radio license if operating outside the USA), and W&B.

This ramp check subject has been hashed to death on the forums so just want to stir the pot on something Glen wrote because I'm in an evil mood this morning :D

There is no requirement to carry current...or any charts for the type of GA flying we do. If you disagree, please quote the applicable FAR that requires it.
 
This ramp check subject has been hashed to death on the forums so just want to stir the pot on something Glen wrote because I'm in an evil mood this morning :D
There is no requirement to carry current...or any charts for the type of GA flying we do. If you disagree, please quote the applicable FAR that requires it.

This is correct!

As far as "reducing" the size of the medical, It is my understanding that you must carry the "original" medical certificate. A reduced version would be a copy and not the original. I simply "fold" mine to the size of the pilot certificate.
 
There is no requirement to carry current...or any charts for the type of GA flying we do. If you disagree, please quote the applicable FAR that requires it.

Interesting thought and interpretation, but I think your painting with a pretty broad brush with "the type of GA flying we do" - not sure what you mean by that. As far as interpretation, unfortunately, yours isn't the one that matters in an enforcement action (I guess rare exceptions exist).

For my $, 91.103a is where I see the requirement for any flight away from the field:

(a) For a flight under IFR or a flight not in the vicinity of an airport, weather reports and forecasts, fuel requirements, alternatives available if the planned flight cannot be completed, and any known traffic delays of which the pilot in command has been advised by ATC;

There is just no way to plan for all potential alternatives. 1/3 of the way through a CC leg you see dropping oil pressure and climbing temps; you need to land now. Sure ATC will give you help/vectors, but I for one do not want to explain why I was asking ATC for freq, runway info, etc. As I said about interpretation, this is merely mine. I could be dead wrong, but will never personally deviate from interpreting it that way.
 
I was ramp checked once, in front my hangar.

The FAA guy was nice, but he wanted to know why my sectional was expired. This of course devolved into the sectional required or not required discussion. There is no regulation stating specifically that a sectional be on board but he wasn't going to let that sway him, nor would he show me where it was in the current FAR/AIM I politely handed him.

I could see that I was getting no where, so I politely excused myself and walked about 30 yards over to the local flight school and purchased a current dead tree sectional.
 
"For reference only"

I was ramp checked once, in front my hangar.

The FAA guy was nice, but he wanted to know why my sectional was expired. This of course devolved into the sectional required or not required discussion. There is no regulation stating specifically that a sectional be on board but he wasn't going to let that sway him, nor would he show me where it was in the current FAR/AIM I politely handed him.

I could see that I was getting no where, so I politely excused myself and walked about 30 yards over to the local flight school and purchased a current dead tree sectional.


It has been my understanding that you did not need a sectional, but if you did, it should be current. So having an expired sectional was worse than not having one at all. When my sectionals would expire, I would write "For reference only. Not for navigation" across the top.
 
I'm a CFII and MEI. Also a part 135 air medical pilot for 10 plus years, so I have plenty of experience with Feds and also knowledge of regs.
To start with:
Feds make stuff up! They really do. But that doesn't make it right.
First off, the OP did NOT need to show his repair certificate. Remember ARROW (no need for radio anymore - but remember you do need a government picture ID). That's it. Don't carry your log book.
I don't actually know if laminating your medical is ok or not. If you REALLY feel a need to do so, call the oaklahoma city medical devision telephone number and ask them. As far as reducing it, that answer is no. It must be the original. If you loose the original, you can call oak city and request a faxed copy. You may use this faxed copy for I believe 30 days. But in the mean time you also have to request a copy to be sent to your home (I believe the $2 charge also).
As far as charts go. For VFR, there really is no requirement for charts on the plane. Remember that you are required to become "familiar" with ALL aspects of the flight. Thus you studied the charts weather, notams, at home preflight.
Be careful with this though, because notams could bite you. All this said, remember that Feds make stuff up and like some say, just play the game. but again, a word of caution, don't show your books unnessisarily.

Great idea to write that on your expired charts. I might add:
"for terrain reference only - not for navigation"

Ps. ALWAYS remember to file a NASA form if there was a question of the outcome. It's easy. It's online now.
 
ramp check and what you carry

The thread has drifted a bit towards documentation... so I will add a caution. When my wallet was stolen I started the process of replacing everything in it. My pilot certificate and CFI-I cards were quick and easy. I went to my AME for a duplicate medical and was told that was not legal. Applied through Oklahoma City and waited four months for a copy. It came with a letter from a medical examiner attesting to the fact that she had thoroughly researched my history and deemed me medically qualified to fly. Very strange. I was only asking for a duplicate. Apparently she did a history search to make sure no boxes had been checked or unchecked. thereby committing fraud. The previous poster said a fax copy could be used for 30 days. For a working pilot, how do you make a living if a medical copy can take four months to arrive? I won't be shrinking mine... but I certainly am keeping a copy of it in my safe.
 
My last few SI medicals were computer generated and printed on a full sheet of common printer paper. How would they know if it is a copy or not?
 
My last few SI medicals were computer generated and printed on a full sheet of common printer paper. How would they know if it is a copy or not?

Same here, then a month or two later, an emailed one from Oak city also.
 
My last few SI medicals were computer generated and printed on a full sheet of common printer paper. How would they know if it is a copy or not?
My last few medicals have been that way. An original signature from the AME is the only way I know to tell it is original. But one time the AME emailed me a PDF file - he has a signature graphic, so no way to tell it is 'original'. Your signature should be original :cool:
 
Though the discussion is a bit varied from original, let me add a few notes to the original. The FAA inspector who checked you at KLUX lives in Anderson SC and works in the Columbia SC FSDO. He commutes three days a week to KCAE and breaks up his trip by stopping by KLUX and KEOE ( Newberry SC) often.

He often does not show his creds unless asked. As for the info about the repairman cert it is an airman cert and should be shown as a cert if you have it with you since it too is a little plastic card.

As far as the issue of a pilot signing off the inspection, he was referring to a specific experimental that had been signed off as an "Annual" by the holder of the repairman cert for the airplane. Only an IA can sign off an "annual" otherwise the holder of the repairmen cert for the airplane signs it off as a "twelve month conditional inspection" The inspector found the issue when "inspecting" a Glassair that had been donated to a local Pt.147 school to be used for instructing A&P students and was to never fly again. He reportedly wanted to violate the owner of that aircraft.

As to the numbers on certs, my A&P cert has the same numbers as my pilot cert. This occurs since on an application subsequent to your original certification the form requires the listing of any other certs by number and kind.

This particular inspector also reported me to my Supervisor Instructor for not having side shields on my prescription glasses while working in the hanger.

He is a strict interpreter of the regs
 
Small note in the bigger picture, but this FAA ASI is himself being sloppy. He should offer up his credentials immediately. To do otherwise is unprofessional and probably (not 100% sure) violating procedure.

Coincidentally, over the last month or so I have had the pleasure of visiting with two DHS and one DOL employees (agents?) at my day job, all for separate issues. Each of the three shook my hand while simultaneously offering their credentials.
 
Anybody know for sure about shrinking and laminating, or does it depend on who you ask in the FAA??

From more than one Fed:

Do not laminate as it prevents anyone from writing/making pen and ink changes to it. I don't know why/when this is applicable but I've heard it from multiple sources, both feds and at work.

Do not shrink/alter it. Why? Because they said so... good enough for me with regards to this. Pick your battles.

Also another big hit I see guys get dinged on, is when you get your medical there is a border you can trim and cut and another that says to fold. You must fold along that line and have both sides of the medical for it to be valid. FSDO inspector made a big deal of that on my 135 check ride and my last AME made sure to reiterate that as well.
 
Ramp checks with CBP

During August/Sept I crossed the border several times. CBP is good on ramp checks as you probably know. On one weekend I had 5 officers inspecting me (some were probably in training). Once after landing and taxiing to the spot CBP truck was parked at it started raining. It was pouring and there was no terminal. The officers were fast looking over all paperwork but my medical got couple droplets of rain. That piece of paper now looks terrible. Nothing happened to laminated passport pages even registration and airworthiness certificate dried out without damage.
 
I stumbled across this part one

Hi, I'm from the FAA, Can We Talk?"
by Dwayne Keating

A Legal Perspective

Your pilot's license?even your ATP license that you use to fly big jets for thousands of dollars a year?is just that, a license. It's not a right, and you aren't guaranteed by any law or constitutional provision the right to have it. If the FAA wants to take it away, they must follow certain procedures, but it is not anything like a criminal matter. They can revoke it based upon a showing that you are not fit to keep it or have violated the law, including the FARs. And the rules of procedure that most attorneys are familiar with may not apply! With this in mind, let's look at one particular issue?the ramp check.
So, exactly what is the FAA's power when it comes to the ramp check?or any other check for that matter? Well, much of it depends on what part of the Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs) you are operating under. If you are operating under Part 135, you might be surprised to know that they can ask you to do almost anything.

Let's look at a case that received national attention a couple of years ago. John Yodice, Legal Counsel for AOPA, wrote an article on it for his column in the AOPA magazine. It points out the all-encompassing power of the FAA inspector should he find something he either doesn't like or that indicates some carelessness in the pilot's preparation for the flight.

The pilot of a Lear made a short hop from his starting point to Smyrna, Tennessee. The FBO at Smyrna had the lowest fuel prices in the area by almost a $1.00 a gallon, so the pilot decided to stop. Unfortunately for him, there were two FAA inspectors at the airport when he arrived.
The pilot claims that the inspectors never identified themselves and were there specifically to ramp check him because of problems they were having with the company he was working for. The inspectors, on the other hand, say they were there to inspect a flight school. Regardless of whose story you believe, neither party denies that the inspectors conducted a ramp check on the hapless pilot.

The pilot had asked the FBO's line crew to top off the tip tanks. While this was going on, the inspectors asked to see the load manifest?the weight and balance determination?for the aircraft. They found some errors. Specifically, the weight for the crew was too light by about 220 pounds, and the load of the cargo was also incorrect by about the same amount.

Apparently, during the inspection, things got a little heated, and the pilot refused to turn on the master switch of the airplane for the inspectors to see how much fuel was in the main fuel tanks. At that point, one of the inspectors told the pilot he was going to do an en route check. The pilot basically refused to cooperate for several reasons?not the least of which was that he would have to burn off fuel to take the inspector with him. He walked off, leaving the airplane, the co-pilot, and the inspectors behind.

Under Section 135.73 (which governs inspections of 135 operations) ?Each certificate holder and each person employed by the certificate holder, shall allow the Administrator, at any time or place, to make inspections or test (including en route inspections) to determine the holder's compliance with the FAA Act of 1958...?

Section 135.75 goes on to say ?(a) Whenever, in performing the duties of conducting an inspection, an FAA inspector presents an Aviation Safety Inspector credential, FAA Form 110A, to the pilot-in-command of an aircraft operated by the certificate holder, the inspector must be given free and uninterrupted access to the pilot compartment of that aircraft...?

Seems pretty straightforward doesn't it? Notice that neither of the these sections states that the pilot must cooperate with the inspector. The pilot raised exactly that point in his appeal to the NTSB about turning on the master switch. They didn't buy it. The NTSB said this:

?The request was a reasonable and simple one. Inspector Williams testified that the FAA's general policy is to refrain from entering an aircraft or manipulating its controls without the operator' or owner's permission. [Pilot] replies that he is not required by the regulation to assist the FAA in its inspection. At the same time, his refusal to comply with a simple unburdensome request could fairly be construed as a withholding of authority to accomplish a task that was necessary to complete the inspection.... By refusing, the [Pilot] did not ?allow? the inspection to be completed and denied the inspectors free and uninterrupted access to the pilot compartment.? (Administrator v. Rogers, Docket SE-13914.)

I'm sure not convinced that refusing to do something is the same as ?not allowing the inspectors access? to the pilot compartment; they can go in all they want. It seems to me that the NTSB expanded the rules to require the pilot to assist in the inspection. But, again, the matter is irrelevant. Ultimately the NTSB suspended the pilot's license for nine months.

OK, you're saying, that's fine. That guy should have known he had to cooperate with the inspector, and why didn't he know what he and the co-pilot weighed? It's his own fault. On top of that, I only fly my airplane under Part 91?not for hire?and don't have to comply with all those rules and regulations that the Part 135 and 121 operators do. So what can they do to me? Well...plenty!

In preparing to write this article I talked with a couple of FAA inspectors, ex-inspectors and FAA attorneys, as well as some attorneys that defend actions against airman by the FAA. In every case, there was almost unanimous agreement that, by-and-large, FAA inspectors are really trying to do their job?without ?hassling you.?

Their job, by the way, as spelled out in the FAA's own Compliance and Enforcement Programs Handbook, is ?to promote aviation safety and security in civil aeronautics... The FAA's compliance and enforcement program is designed to promote compliance...? That same handbook goes on to define fairness:

?To be effective, the agency's compliance and enforcement program must be fair and reasonable in fact, and should be perceived as fair by those subject to regulation.... It also requires good faith efforts to understand the alleged violator's position and take it into account, as well as appraise the alleged violator of the agency's position in a timely manner.?

With all this in mind, what can inspectors ask you to do if you are just flying your airplane on a weekend to a local fly-in/open house? First, they would probably need a reason to even want to do a ramp check, but let's assume its been a slow afternoon and they?re getting tired of watching the birds fly.

First, since the FAA is charged with ensuring flight safety?whether it's you in your home-built or you and a couple of hundred friends in a Big Airlines 777?they have a ?right to inspect.? What can they inspect? Basically anything they want. There is some issue about whether they need a search warrant to crawl around inside your airplane, especially if there is the possibility they might find something that would cause them to take criminal action, but generally they are entitled to look things over.
 
I stumbled across this Part Two

What will they inspect? Generally, they'll ask for those items that your instructor did when you first started flying: Airworthiness Certificate, Registration, Operators Manual and Weight and Balance information. And they are entitled to see them. In addition, they may ask to see your license and medical, especially if they just saw you taxi in! Do you show them to the inspector? Yes. There seems to be a misunderstanding among some pilots that, if you give the inspector you license and medical, they can keep them if they find something wrong or they just don't like you. Not true! The only time the FAA may forcibly keep your license and/or medical is after a hearing at which it is determined that you must turn them over to them. No one with the FAA may keep your certificate during a ramp check, period! The inspector is also allowed to look at your aircraft; after all, they're supposed to be there to help insure safety! However, I would suggest you politely?and the emphasis is on politely?refuse until you have the chance to talk with someone else.

What if the inspector finds something wrong: Your medical is out of date, the flap is falling off on the right side of your airplane, or you've had a couple a beers and are going to buzz your house? Can they take the keys away from you, lock the door, chain down your airplane, or arrest you? No! If they do, they might leave themselves, as well as the FAA itself, open to civil liability. Should they take such action? In the above cases, probably yes. But I chose extreme examples to show that they do not have police power. They can, and probably would, call the police in a couple of the above scenarios, but the inspector alone can't stop you. (Now I'm not encouraging anyone to fly in an unairworthy airplane or after having even one beer. Not only is it dangerous, it's stupid!)

How should you handle it? There are at least two schools of thought out there. One is to say and do the minimum and not offer anything. The other says cooperate as much as is reasonable. My position leans toward the latter, with some common sense thrown in. Cooperate to a point. If the inspector hasn't seen that there aren't any tires on the airplane you were about to get into and fly, don't point it out! On the other hand don't start yelling and screaming, saying the FAA has no right to ?hassle? you and that you?re going to call your attorney if he keeps it up. Surprise, you'll probably get that opportunity!

So what do you do? Whenever an inspector finds something on a ramp check, much is going to depend on two things: your attitude and the severity of the problem. Obviously, the severity of the problem trumps your attitude if it's bad enough, but your attitude can go a long way to mitigate it.

In fact, when faced with a violation of the FARs, inspectors have several options. They can take what's called ?administrative action??a Warning Notice or Letter of Correction?or the new Streamlined Administrative Action Process, what was the ?traffic ticket? last year (and which I may discuss in a future article). This action is taken when the FAA does not believe legal enforcement is warranted. They can require you to take a reexamination; they can take certificate action, as they did with the pilot of the Lear in the beginning; they can seek civil penalties, basically a fine; or they can pursue criminal actions, as they are doing with the company that shipped the oxygen generators in the US Air crash in Florida.

In all but the last one, your attitude is important, just as it would be with a policeman. It also puts you in a difficult position. One of the options open to the inspector under administrative actions is remedial training. Assuming that you can't prove you did nothing wrong, or the inspector actually saw you do something wrong, or there was ?tape at ten? showing your smiling face buzzing downtown Bernalillo, then remedial training requires that you have a ?constructive attitude??and that's up to the inspector to determine! If the inspectors don't think your attitude is correct, you may not even be given this option.

You might feel it would be appropriate to talk to someone else, before you volunteer any more information. That's okay, too; just do it in a positive, non-threatening manner. Remember the FAA Inspector is entitled to see your FAA license, current medical, documents required for your aircraft and your log book if you have them with you. But, most importantly, do not volunteer information! Most inspectors are human. If you get confrontational they will too and I can tell you who wins that one almost every time: the FAA.

What about an inspector that is determined to show his power to you and the world? They are out there, even people inside the FAA admit that, just as they are on the freeways and probably where you work. My best advice is to be nice and resist the temptation to point out that they are in a bad mood, you did nothing wrong, and that they should put their clipboard in some dark moist place. That would most assuredly get you a letter from them at the very least asking for further information, and?assuming that the inspector can sell it to his or her boss?a letter from the Regional FAA Attorney's office telling you they would like to take your license away for a couple of days.

On the other hand you do not have to put up with verbal abuse any more than they do. Make notes, take pictures if you can and get the names of any witnesses?make sure there are some if at all possible, it may not make a lot of difference, but it won't hurt. Then see someone who practices aviation enforcement law before doing anything. It's not the same as criminal law or general civil law. It's a whole 'nother ball game!
 
During August/Sept I crossed the border several times. CBP is good on ramp checks as you probably know.
In these discussions, sooner or later this issues comes up and I think it's important that pilots understand it. CPB or any other local/state/federal law enforcement agencies do not conduct "ramp checks" as we commonly think of them. "Ramp checks" are done by FAA inspectors who operate under FAA guidelines and do not have any police authority. If law enforcement of any level is asking you questions, it is not a "ramp check" and a whole 'mother set of rules apply. Think of it more like a traffic stop and you'll get the idea.

If you are stopped by law enforcement, I promise you they don't care if your medical is current or if you've had 3 takeoff/ landings in 90 days. They are most likely investigating an allegation of criminal wrongdoing, not FAA policy. It could be anything from drug smuggling (the recent CPB enforcement actions) or as simple as the local sheriff responding to a request for more patrols at the local airport because of a rash of hangar break-ins. The sheriff may or may not know anything about airplanes, but he knows about criminals, and nothing will get you branded as suspicious quicker than a lack of cooperation and demands to call your attorney.
 
good points for pilots

Jeff makes an excellent point. It might be wise to lump all of these possibilities into one reaction. Whether it be CPB, local law, or FAA.
Attitude is everything. Period. Some pilots (how many) have a bigger ego than usual. I know I do. It is a struggle to remain calm and objective, when questioned by authority. I was required to attend an oral review with the FAA over an airplane that was forced down do to mechanical failure. I did nothing wrong. The AOPA attorney gave me good advice. Go, participate and learn.
And, he was right in the end. A candid discussion while remaining firm but humble steers the outcome to a more positive direction. Remember, you are paying for the lawyers on both sides... should you decide to be antagonistic.
 
College of Hard Knocks

This has been a very educational thread. I know I have learned a lot. One might say most of these posts are from the "college of hard knocks." Thanks to everyone who has contributed. :)
 
In these discussions, sooner or later this issues comes up and I think it's important that pilots understand it. CPB or any other local/state/federal law enforcement agencies do not conduct "ramp checks" as we commonly think of them. "Ramp checks" are done by FAA inspectors who operate under FAA guidelines and do not have any police authority. If law enforcement of any level is asking you questions, it is not a "ramp check" and a whole 'mother set of rules apply. Think of it more like a traffic stop and you'll get the idea.

Very true, LE does not do "ramp checks" in the FAA sense. CBP does a "Border Search" when you arrive from, or depart to, a foreign location. This is a very different situation than a "traffic stop" with an entirely different set of rules.

:cool:
 
good grief. Is the FAA's main focus these days on how we fold a piece of paper?

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The FAA Motto
 
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